Town of Salem Game Forums

JohnnyReklaw wrote:I have a major mathematical issue with this role. You're not just removing one town vote, you're giving town a potential -2 in voting power to town. The politician isn't just having 2 votes, he's negating one (probably town) vote. This is a gain of 1 vote for "evil" purposes and -1 for "good" purposes. Overall, -2 for town.

Take a standard ranked game with 3 mafia, 1 NK, NE, NB, and 9 town. Assume the mafia hits 2 nights of killing town and town player count is 13 (doesn't even count NK's kills). Also take into consideration the probability of everyone knowing at LEAST 1 Confirmed town member. Politician steals confirmed town's vote, now leaving 5 votes that don't want Mafia hung. If NK kills just once, you're down to needing 6 for majority votes, which is every town member. How often is everyone in town going to agree on day 3? Suddenly, one random vote turns into lynching town, and this position being OVERPOWERED for Evil.

With a mayor in play, this role simply balances the mayor's votes essentially making mayor a normal voter (as town is -2 voting power but +2 with Mayor).

I know how often games go into 7+ days of play, but this role would negate the necessity of there being more than about 5 in-game days of a game. If mafia has 3 members (or in some cases, 4), majority voting power soon lies with them if they can find a politician (consig, asking players) as they gain not only Neutral Evil's vote, but a town vote is stolen and used against them. Yes, vigilante, Jailor, veteran MAY even the scores, but this is not putting the town in any better position as its likely to go -1 vote good, -1 vote evil. (1 town killed, 1 evil killed).

I can see a few possible solutions, however, that would make it more balanced.
1) No vote stealing, just vote blocking. Now you're down to a 1 vote difference, not 2.
2) Make the politician NOT win with Mafia. He takes orders from no one (Godfather or Mayor), so he doesn't win with town or mafia. He now has to know who has majority, and keep swaying votes to "balance" the majority. Furthermore, this gives Arsonists, WW, and SK's an ally who can help them because winning with Neutral Killing is HARD. (Perhaps he just has to get GF and Mayor killed?) [Yes, this would require a mayor in game, but VH requires vampires]
3) Limit the uses of stolen votes. I assume you steal a vote a night, so you determine ahead of time what day you'll steal a vote; but also make them only have the power 2 times (maybe 3, though if you wait until mid-game, you can sway for mafia too quickly IMHO).

I love the idea of the character, but mathematically you're swaying 2 votes from town, which can cripple the town.


The ideas within this post are my personal opinion, please take nothing personally.

Thanks,

JohnnyReklaw wrote:I have a major mathematical issue with this role. You're not just removing one town vote, you're giving town a potential -2 in voting power to town. The politician isn't just having 2 votes, he's negating one (probably town) vote. This is a gain of 1 vote for "evil" purposes and -1 for "good" purposes. Overall, -2 for town. It's not an issue, it's main purpose to to take votes, and that's what it does, it helps the bad guys.

Take a standard ranked game with 3 mafia, 1 NK, NE, NB, and 9 town. Assume the mafia hits 2 nights of killing town and town player count is 13 (doesn't even count NK's kills). Also take into consideration the probability of everyone knowing at LEAST 1 Confirmed town member. Politician steals confirmed town's vote, now leaving 5 votes that don't want Mafia hung. If NK kills just once, you're down to needing 6 for majority votes, which is every town member. How often is everyone in town going to agree on day 3? Suddenly, one random vote turns into lynching town, and this position being OVERPOWERED for Evil. It suits NE perfectly fine, it's main goal is to screw with Town.

With a mayor in play, this role simply balances the mayor's votes essentially making mayor a normal voter (as town is -2 voting power but +2 with Mayor). Did you read all of the OP? Politician can't bribe a revealed Mayor.

I know how often games go into 7+ days of play, but this role would negate the necessity of there being more than about 5 in-game days of a game. If mafia has 3 members (or in some cases, 4), majority voting power soon lies with them if they can find a politician (consig, asking players) as they gain not only Neutral Evil's vote, but a town vote is stolen and used against them. Yes, vigilante, Jailor, veteran MAY even the scores, but this is not putting the town in any better position as its likely to go -1 vote good, -1 vote evil. (1 town killed, 1 evil killed).

I can see a few possible solutions, however, that would make it more balanced.
1) No vote stealing, just vote blocking. Now you're down to a 1 vote difference, not 2. No. Then it will hurt its allies more than help them. If you bribe a Mafia member (in your way) the evil roles lose a vote. If you bribe a Mafia member (My way) The evil roles don't lose any votes. It's more balanced the way it is.
2) Make the politician NOT win with Mafia. He takes orders from no one (Godfather or Mayor), so he doesn't win with town or mafia. He now has to know who has majority, and keep swaying votes to "balance" the majority. Furthermore, this gives Arsonists, WW, and SK's an ally who can help them because winning with Neutral Killing is HARD. (Perhaps he just has to get GF and Mayor killed?) [Yes, this would require a mayor in game, but VH requires vampires] Don't bring up VH, it was a huge mistake to add on the developers' part, and is completely unbalanced. Taking away its ability to win with Mafia makes it almost impossible to put into another Neutral alignment. NE is for roles that win with all scum roles. NB is for roles that win with everyone. NC is for roles that win alone with Survivors and Witches, don't kill, and have a unique goal. NK is for roles that kill, have a unique goal, and win alone with Survivors and Witches. If we make it unable to win with Mafia, we might as well make it Town.
3) Limit the uses of stolen votes. I assume you steal a vote a night, so you determine ahead of time what day you'll steal a vote; but also make them only have the power 2 times (maybe 3, though if you wait until mid-game, you can sway for mafia too quickly IMHO). IMO no NE should have limited uses, as their main goal is to cripple Town, with limited uses after they use them up the only thing they can do to help scum is an extra vote.So no.

I love the idea of the character, but mathematically you're swaying 2 votes from town, which can cripple the town. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF IT BEING NEUTRAL EVIL! NE is meant to cripple Town.


The ideas within this post are my personal opinion, please take nothing personally.

Thanks,

BPsycho2 wrote:So, this man, Johnny Reklaw basically wants Politician to be neutral chaos and have to bounce back and forth trying to kill both Mafia and Town
No.

Or He wants it to be a role who instantly wins when both the Mayor and Godfather die?
No.

And he justifies it using the Vampire Hunter, a pitiful excuse for a Town Killer that ONLY fits in NB (And that's a stretch. It should be gone, but NB will do.)
NO!

Someone help this man.

Help this man see that this role is designed purely to screw with the town.

JohnnyReklaw wrote:

BPsycho2 wrote:So, this man, Johnny Reklaw basically wants Politician to be neutral chaos and have to bounce back and forth trying to kill both Mafia and Town
No.

Or He wants it to be a role who instantly wins when both the Mayor and Godfather die?
No.

And he justifies it using the Vampire Hunter, a pitiful excuse for a Town Killer that ONLY fits in NB (And that's a stretch. It should be gone, but NB will do.)
NO!

Someone help this man.

Help this man see that this role is designed purely to screw with the town.

I understand your point, and I think it cripples town by simply stealing 1 vote. By making town -2 in votes, you give majority to mafia or other evils too early. Mafia and Evil roles are overpowered because they don't have numbers. Town is only overpowered because of voting power. Forgive me, but I think -2 for town is too much of a sway that means town doesn't stand a chance.

But I'm just one guy. If you don't like my feedback, thats okay with me.

dafish1 wrote:Hi I love the idea but I have one question. It may have already been asked so I'm sorry if it's a repeat. Say the Politician bribes an unrevealed mayor and the Mayor then reveals the next day while he was bribed. What would happen?

a) bribe gets cancelled and basically no one is bribed that day
b) Politician gets to control the 3 votes because the mayor was bribed before revealing
c) Politician gets the standard 1 extra vote and the mayor just can't vote
d) the mayor isn't allowed to reveal that day

Also can you make someone vote against him/herself?

(again sorry if anything is a repeat....not intentional)

your friendly neighborhood fish

Mace8937 wrote:

dafish1 wrote:Hi I love the idea but I have one question. It may have already been asked so I'm sorry if it's a repeat. Say the Politician bribes an unrevealed mayor and the Mayor then reveals the next day while he was bribed. What would happen?

a) bribe gets cancelled and basically no one is bribed that day
b) Politician gets to control the 3 votes because the mayor was bribed before revealing
c) Politician gets the standard 1 extra vote and the mayor just can't vote
d) the mayor isn't allowed to reveal that day

Also can you make someone vote against him/herself?

(again sorry if anything is a repeat....not intentional)

your friendly neighborhood fish

a) No.
b) Would make this role more OP than the game needs.
c) Yes, precisely what would happen.
d) No.

Also, in the game's core mechanics, you can't vote for yourself, so do you think they would implement a role that defies a core mechanic? The bribing does not occur if you choose for the player to vote for themself.

BPsycho2 wrote:I asked a question about that earlier.

You said that if you make someone vote themself, the counter goes up but it doesn't say the voted thing.

Kirize12 wrote:It's a risky gambit though, because people might be informed of a Politician's identity.

IndIngo wrote:Great idea, i really like it but i am confused on how you vote for another person, do you have two buttons on each person or do you have 2 votes and you and your targte vote at the same time?

Cirque wrote:

I really like this role idea. A corrupted Mayor. I like it . But won't they notice they were bribed when they can't use their vote?

Mace8937 wrote:Thank you guys so much for your continued contributions to this role and I hope it pays off! Please report to the petition above if you feel this role should be added to Town of Salem.
But without further ado, here is the role!:
----------------------------------------------
Role Name: Politician

Role Alignment: Neutral Evil

Summary: A corrupt politician working their way to becoming the next mayor of the town.

Attributes: Select player can't vote that day, and you have complete control over their voting.
You can choose to use their vote or not.
The person you bribed will be notified that you bribed them.
You can not bribe a revealed Mayor.
You are able to read whispers.

Abilities: Bribe one player each night to commandeer their vote during the day.

Goal: Survive to see the Town lose the game.

Wins with: Everyone except Town

Special Attributes: Conversion Immune.
Unique
You have one automatic vesting system that can only be pierced by the Vigilante.
The bribing will not go through if your target is jailed.
If forced to bribe yourself you will get two votes, when this happens the LeftBox will announce you voting, but the RightBox will not announce it but the counter will go up.

Investigative Results: Investigator: Your target works with secret information, they must be a Blackmailer, Spy, or Politician.
Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious
Consigliere: Your target wants to become the mayor, they must be a Politician!

Achievements:
Spoiler: Beginner's luck: Win one game as Politician.
Better than most: Win five games as Politician.
The real deal: Win ten games as Politician.
Presidential Nominee: Win twenty-five games as Politician.
The new Don: Win with Mafia.
No town left to lead: Win with a Neutral Killing role.
Let's just go home: Win with ONLY a Survivor, or another NE.
Pointless: Win by yourself.
Remember to vote: Win alone WITH an Amnesiac who forgot to remember a role.
NOPE: Bribe a Mayor to have him reveal and steal his vote back from you.
It's a bloody business: Bribe a Vampire.
Republican: Bribe a Godfather.
Double Trouble: Bribe yourself.
That's my job: Bribe an Executioner, or Framer.
Honest Abe: Don't bribe anyone and win.
Cold War: Bribe a dead person [killed by nontown].
Success: Bribe a Town member that is lynched/killed by town some time after the bribe.

Additional Information (comments):