Balanced Disguiser: #RunItBack

[orangeandblack5]

Telling the Town that there is a Disguiser the second time you disguise isn't even a problem lol

Also, the synergy between this buff and the Consig is insane.

[Mroz4k]

You wouldnt be able to hide it either way.

The roles written in the wills will not correspond with the role of the victim - but that was always intended, othervise the Disguiser would be quite overbuffed.

The whole point of this suggestion is to fight the "names in the Last Wills" kind of Disguiser counter - which with this suggestion is accomplished, so its pretty much the only thing Disguiser needs.

[Crazyzombie168]

This would fix Disguiser. The Spy and Medium thing is fine, since there should be some way to counter a disguiser going about. If a Disguiser manges to avoid lynching after being accused and avoids being killed, the Disguiser gets away. So there should be away. The disguiser being confirmed in the game is also ok, because the town should know there is a Disguiser by the second disguise. If the town didn't, the Disguiser would probably be up there with Consig somehow. So these downsides and this buff only make the Disguiser balanced and fun.

[Mroz4k]

Got a bit bored in Marketing practise courses, and my mind warped towards this suggestion... this has a great potential if Mayor games are in effect.

If Mafia can make the kill of Mayor soon enough, the Last Will of Mayor with all the role claims will be hidden from Town´s sight, while Disguiser gets into a position of Town leader. Its obvious people would notice if Disguiser votes, which is why he wouldnt do that... but unless there is a Medium, or semi-intelligent Spy, Mafia could get away with a murder of Mayor for a while, with keeping the Last Will of Mayor´s on hold...

So, one more Mafia role that can mess around with results of proven Town members, like Janitor or Forger. And it encourages Mafia to take a risk of attacking Mayor early on to minimalize the damage Mayor games can cause. Anything that encourages Mafia to be more ballsy when it comes to assasinations on high priority targets early on is a good suggestion, in my opinion.

[Mroz4k]

Okay, so I have a question into the lot: Do we consider the amount of feedback on this thread to be enough?
What I mean by that, do you guys think that the current 40 votes on the poll are enough to think that this is an opinion of TOS community? ¨

Frankly, I´d be glad if we had 100 votes on the poll. Statistically and marketing wise, having at least 100 tasked people is neccesary to get an opinion thats about 96% correct. So we are half-way there.

However, I am feeling the conversation and polls have stopped already. So I am thinking that pushing on BMG to take over this thread and get more opinions from people, using their authority, would be best idea. Or just implement it.

What I am asking here - do you people think its a good idea to start pushing this suggestion with the Devs?

[orangeandblack5]

It's the best Disguiser fix we're likely to ever see short of removing it.

So yes.

[3iii]

looks nice

[Mroz4k]

Okay, so for those who are interested, a petition to have this brought up to Developers attention has been made.

If you guys want to sign it, you can here!

Lets hope this will change something around. I mean, at some point the Developers will need to realize they got to start working with the community, or the game will die out entirely.

[Wzombie]

Okay, so for those who are interested, a petition to have this brought up to Developers attention has been made.

If you guys want to sign it, you can here!

Lets hope this will change something around. I mean, at some point the Developers will need to realize they got to start working with the community, or the game will die out entirely.

I would, but... I don't like giving info out to the public peoples. My first name? That's ok. My email? That's fine. It's the last name, and he zip code, address, etc. that scare me. Soooo... I'd LOVE to, and I wholeheartedly agree, but I'm not signing the petition.

[orangeandblack5]

Send this to /r/TownofSalemGame

[Megalomancer]

Send this to /r/TownofSalemGame

I took care of that

[Mroz4k]

I would, but... I don't like giving info out to the public peoples. My first name? That's ok. My email? That's fine. It's the last name, and he zip code, address, etc. that scare me. Soooo... I'd LOVE to, and I wholeheartedly agree, but I'm not signing the petition.

Well, I registered using my gaming FB account, which has nothing on it. Also noone ever said you need to imput real info if you dont want to.

Im not forcing anyone, its all up to you. I understand this kind of reasoning well.

Getting back to signatures - 9 signatures in this short time, Im impressed. Lets hope the pace keeps up for a while - reaching 100, it´d be a good, hard proof this is something community wants.

[Aminimouse]

This is actually a very well thought out idea. Though I think it would be VERY confusing for people who.. well, you know.. don't get the game as well as they should lmao.

Still, support 100%. Even if this isn't the road BMG takes, Disguiser needs some kind of fix lol

[ParaYumi]

I was all set to vote that disguiser is fine the way it is, but these are some good ideas for changes and I like them.

[oliy]

My problems with this:
You still need to disguise three nights in a row unless there's no Medium or Retributionist, which is a gamble
Forgers become unreliable on strategic tactics and rely on the town tricking this
The Forger trick will only work for one night
It still hardly does anything useful for the Mafia, except giving you a new place to hide, which is somewhat good

[orangeandblack5]

My problems with this:
You still need to disguise three nights in a row unless there's no Medium or Retributionist, which is a gamble
Forgers become unreliable on strategic tactics and rely on the town tricking this
The Forger trick will only work for one night
It still hardly does anything useful for the Mafia, except giving you a new place to hide, which is somewhat good

1: You don't (and in fact probably shouldn't) most of the time, and actually only if there's a Medium (the Ret won't know, and you have until they revive). But would Disguiser with no weaknesses even be fair?
2: What? This doesn't affect Forger at all.
3: That's the point. Flawless disguises every time would be too powerful.
4: Actually it makes disguiser able to scotch-free disguise once and disguise with less risk the next two times. That's a massive increase in utility.

[oliy]

If you don't, and there's a Medium or Retributionist revive that night you're immediately lynched
Communities can be sheepy :\
No, I mean fooling the town for a Forger won't do anything without an Investigator
Just like it says, nothing for the Mafia itself. Removing wills like Janitor can and preventing info to get to a Medium can actually help the Mafia without trying to make alliances. It may go into a new body, but if some role dies people can begin to question it.

[Mroz4k]

If you don't, and there's a Medium or Retributionist revive that night you're immediately lynched
Communities can be sheepy :\
No, I mean fooling the town for a Forger won't do anything without an Investigator
Just like it says, nothing for the Mafia itself. Removing wills like Janitor can and preventing info to get to a Medium can actually help the Mafia without trying to make alliances. It may go into a new body, but if some role dies people can begin to question it.

No, you are not. Dont bullshit.

If there is a Revive right away, you will be fine - because the revived Townie got revived at the end of the night, and the person you killed and disguised as gets killed in the end of the night, too. Same with Medium.

No, they will only know if it happens a NIGHT after you disguised - at that time, you might already be gone, and if not, then you still have pretty good odds to bullshit your way out of it. The most dangerous thing for Disguiser in this case is if Disguiser who already disguised at least once didnt disguise for a night, and a Retri ressed a Town member - that Town member would know about the Disguiser being in place, and Disguiser would most likely get lynched.

But thats EXACTLY the point! It makes Disguiser vulnerable to something.

Oh, and your argument that communities can be sheepy is just plain dumb. Thats a comment you can say against anything.
OK, I can say that a community can be sheepy and will lynch the Medium who confronted you instead. Guess what - whether they are sheepy with you or them depends entirely on player´s skills. Thats not an argument against a mechanic... which, by the way, is a good thing. We WANT things that make roles dependant on skill.

If Disguiser were to remove wills permanently, its way more powerful then this suggestion - in fact, its overbuffed. Not to mention you have ANOTHER "remove LW" role like Janitor and Forger... its not just a Disguiser buff, its an overall allignment buff. It buffs Disguiser AND Mafia, resulting in overbuffed role. Not to mention also incredibly boring because at this point, we have (excluding Mafia killing roles) 50% of Mafia roles removing Last Wills.

No, Disguiser removing Last wills is boring, overbuffed suggestion. Its so much better to have some way to actually confront the role. In this case, Disguiser is weak against Medium and Retributionist, but in neither cases he is immidiatedly lynched like you are suggesting.

Also, fooling the Town for Forger is not meant for the whole game... but it can be confusing, especially in the early game, which is still beneficial for the Mafia.

[oliy]

I meant a revive the night of the death reveal, so the next night.
Removing wills may be too powerful, but this still doesn't do much for the Mafia. At least make disguised people Blackmailed in death so they can't immediately tell a medium or out their information. Without it you need to disguise three times in a row with hopes of no Medium or late-reviving Retributionist.

[Mroz4k]

Okay, so night after - whats the problem? For starters, the Disguiser might be long gone. And if not, its not like the Medium can prove something like this easily. The way I see it, people would think the Medium is an Executioner, since I can understand that a lot of Executioners would use this kind of argument to get their targets lynched. Thats why it would be more dangerous in the case of Retributionist... but that would happen rarely, and its still a good thing they can counter the Disguiser in this way.

I dont understand why you want the role to be boring and overpowered. In this case, the role would be much closer to other roles in terms of power. Almost every role has a soft-counter, these scenarios are it for Disguiser. Point is, with this suggestion, the Disguiser can stand on its own as a role, and can deal a significant amount of confusion to Town, using its abilities.

Its not supposed to be detection-proof.

[Mroz4k]

The more I consider it, the more I feel like these two suggestions would go really well together: (props to Kikigiri for the idea)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=37502

Any opinions on that? I think it goes well together by making Disguiser more useful to the Mafia. Its a buff that only affects Spy, so its not much of a buff to Disguiser as more of a nerf to the OP Spy... and the Disguiser still remains vulnerable to the Medium/Retri, who both are scenarios that can be avoided if Disguiser is skilled enough.

I think the other Spy nerf is just the cherry on the tip for balancing of the Disguiser, making the role useful again.

[Kikigiri]

I don't think there's a problem with Disguisers being potentially vulnerable to Mediums or Retributionists; everyone is vulnerable to something. For Mediums, it requires that the Town trust the Medium, which is often a very hard role to confirm (part of the problem with disguisers at the moment is that many of their biggest weaknesses are "no-brainers" with almost no need to trust anyone).

Retributionists are a slightly bigger problem because the people they bring back are auto-confirmed, but they're unique and can only bring back one person ever, so if you're afraid of a retri, yeah, you can just disguise again (they can't catch you the day after your disguise.) I just don't see it as a huge problem; currently, Retributionists and Mediums don't catch Disguisers nearly as often as wills do.

[Harkonnen97]

This idea is fcking amazing. You are an evil genius.

[murat1996]

This idea is fcking amazing. You are an evil genius.

I wouldn't say that completely.


Its just a different way of approaching the mechanics if certain roles, but this is obviously one of the better idea for a role that is rubbish.

[Harkonnen97]

This idea is fcking amazing. You are an evil genius.

I wouldn't say that completely.


Its just a different way of approaching the mechanics if certain roles, but this is obviously one of the better idea for a role that is rubbish.

I've spend many hours thinking up town of salem roles and this IS genius. The goal of the disguiser is to keep changing faces, causing chaos in the town. With this change he could easily do it without relying on Janitor/Forger, and the whole gameplay would feel like a criminal movie. After the first victim nothing is revealed, but as the disguiser changes more and more faces, more and more pieces are revealed to the town, and encourages the intelligent townies to try to solve the puzzle. In my opinion, disguiser in theory should be the most fun role in the game, as it makes you engage with every other player. This not only makes him balanced, but even more fun, at least for me, because after disguising every time, the town will know your previous face, and they would start looking for similar behaviour in the rest of the players, searching for you. It would make you plan ahead, and change your personality every time you change your face. If this change is made I would spend all my gold for Disguiser scrolls.