Lost Spirit and Ghost

Old Role Ideas

What of the roles needs more tweaking

Nothing (Ghost)
59
22%
Nothing (Lost Spirit)
61
23%
Alignment (Ghost) -> comment
16
6%
Alignment (Lost Spirit) -> comment
13
5%
Abilites/Attributes (Ghost) -> comment
26
10%
Abilites/Attributes (Lost Spirit) -> comment
21
8%
Goal (Ghost) -> comment
14
5%
Goal (Lost Spirit) -> comment
16
6%
Investigation results (Ghost) -> comment
24
9%
Investigation results (Lost Spirit) -> comment
17
6%
 
Total votes : 267

Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:54 am

I would like to receive more feedback and open some points for discussion.
1. Should the Witch still kill the Lost Spirit when visiting or make it flee when it visits the Witch or their target?
2. Should Vet/Vig (and Jailor?) lose a charge upon being forced to kill the Lost Spirit?
3. Should the Lost Spirit only win, if the visited Killer is using their nightability and remove the "cannot win when killed in the same night it finds a killer"-attribute?
4. Are the four charges or the Ghosts protect ok, or shall it be adjusted?
5. Shall I change one of the lores?
6. What could I improve on the Ghost?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Totes » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:56 am

Jerme wrote:I would like to receive more feedback and open some points for discussion.
1. Should the Witch still kill the Lost Spirit when visiting or make it flee when it visits the Witch or their target?
2. Should Vet/Vig (and Jailor?) lose a charge upon being forced to kill the Lost Spirit?
3. Should the Lost Spirit only win, if the visited Killer is using their nightability and remove the "cannot win when killed in the same night it finds a killer"-attribute?
4. Are the four charges or the Ghosts protect ok, or shall it be adjusted?
5. Shall I change one of the lores?
6. What could I improve on the Ghost?

1-4: Yes.
5: No
6: Nothing

Sorry for the lack of info right now. It's literally 2 in the morning.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:09 am

Thank you Totes, I have updated the OP with the Information.
These changes are still discussable, so I would like to receive more feedback.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:18 pm

Ghost should have unlimited charges, I mean you do roleblock people, that's enough of a setback...
If you have a problem with me or anything I do, tell me about it instead of ring passive aggressive. I consider most people here my friends and I'd rather not live in darkness, but try to resolve the situation. I can't hear what you don't say.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:36 am

Kirize12 wrote:Ghost should have unlimited charges, I mean you do roleblock people, that's enough of a setback...

Well the Ghost is a "Werewolf-Escort", who has no pentalty when roleblocking a Serial Kille and is able to block the Werewolf once. Do yo ureally think the Ghost should have no charges? You are the first one, who gave me this kind of feedback, Kirize. The Ghost can block multiple killing roles so it would be the stronged Town(Protective) in the case of protection.
I am unsure if the Arsonists ignite should be blocked or not, currently the Arsonist can safely ignite and kill the Ghost target.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:31 pm

Jerme wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Ghost should have unlimited charges, I mean you do roleblock people, that's enough of a setback...

Well the Ghost is a "Werewolf-Escort", who has no pentalty when roleblocking a Serial Kille and is able to block the Werewolf once. Do yo ureally think the Ghost should have no charges? You are the first one, who gave me this kind of feedback, Kirize. The Ghost can block multiple killing roles so it would be the stronged Town(Protective) in the case of protection.
I am unsure if the Arsonists ignite should be blocked or not, currently the Arsonist can safely ignite and kill the Ghost target.


Why doesn't it have a penalty when roleblocking an SK? That's bullshit. SK kills are unroleblockable for a reason.
The Werewolf is the weakest NK and you know that. It should never be able to ignore werewolf. Why is that there?
The Doctor can already do that without roleblocking the target or any of their visitors.

Make it so that Arsonist dousing counts, but not incineration.
If you have a problem with me or anything I do, tell me about it instead of ring passive aggressive. I consider most people here my friends and I'd rather not live in darkness, but try to resolve the situation. I can't hear what you don't say.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:24 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
Jerme wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Ghost should have unlimited charges, I mean you do roleblock people, that's enough of a setback...

Well the Ghost is a "Werewolf-Escort", who has no pentalty when roleblocking a Serial Kille and is able to block the Werewolf once. Do you really think the Ghost should have no charges? You are the first one, who gave me this kind of feedback, Kirize. The Ghost can block multiple killing roles so it would be the stronged Town(Protective) in the case of protection.
I am unsure if the Arsonists ignite should be blocked or not, currently the Arsonist can safely ignite and kill the Ghost target.


Why doesn't it have a penalty when roleblocking an SK? That's bullshit. SK kills are unroleblockable for a reason.
The Werewolf is the weakest NK and you know that. It should never be able to ignore werewolf. Why is that there?
The Doctor can already do that without roleblocking the target or any of their visitors.

Make it so that Arsonist dousing counts, but not incineration.

Well, let me explain.
Ghost lets ther target sleep, while it roleblocks every killing visitor (including vamps). This sleeping should pierce every roleblock-immunity since target wakes up after Ghost has left. (at least this is the current state of it, it cna be subject to change)
WW, doesn't matter the state of the moon, will trace the scent of the Ghost by their first meeting and will kill it at the second one. (As visitor or as protected one)
Currently the Arso douse can be prevented, Ignition not and will stay like that, thank you.
Doctor can heal/protect from one cause of attack, Ghost can save from every cause each visit.

Is that clear for you now?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:12 am

I still would like to receive feedback on my roles. Is there anything unclear or needs work/further explanations?
About the roleblocking an SK without a punishment, what do oyu suggest?
No successful sk rb (noone dies) or Ghost dies but has limitless visits?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:32 pm

Jerme wrote:No successful sk rb (noone dies) or Ghost dies but has limitless visits?

/vote yes
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Totes » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:35 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
Jerme wrote:No successful sk rb (noone dies) or Ghost dies but has limitless visits?

/vote yes

I /vote yes on that /vote yes
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:22 am

Thank you for your feedback, removed the roleblock part for both Serial Killer and Werewolf and gave the Ghost limitless visits. I kept the scenttracing for the Werewolf.
Do you think the Ghost shall still be unique, or should there be more of them in one game?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:23 am

Jerme wrote:Thank you for your feedback, removed the roleblock part for both Serial Killer and Werewolf and gave the Ghost limitless visits. I kept the scenttracing for the Werewolf.
Do you think the Ghost shall still be unique, or should there be more of them in one game?

I'm fine with it being unique, although it does remove claimspace...
If you have a problem with me or anything I do, tell me about it instead of ring passive aggressive. I consider most people here my friends and I'd rather not live in darkness, but try to resolve the situation. I can't hear what you don't say.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:36 pm

Well do you think if would harm the town more if they are more than one Ghost in a game, Kirize or should there be more because of claimspace?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:51 pm

Jerme wrote:Well do you think if would harm the town more if they are more than one Ghost in a game, Kirize or should there be more because of claimspace?

The roles that should be unique are the easily confirmable roles, since if you claim those roles, you're going to have a bad time.
On a scale of 0 to 10, how confirmable is Ghost?
If you have a problem with me or anything I do, tell me about it instead of ring passive aggressive. I consider most people here my friends and I'd rather not live in darkness, but try to resolve the situation. I can't hear what you don't say.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:20 pm

The one who reiceved a Ghostly visit will get a notification telling htem that they were too sleepy to leave their house, but only the ghost get notification of the number of people it made flee from their target.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:08 pm

Jerme wrote:The one who reiceved a Ghostly visit will get a notification telling htem that they were too sleepy to leave their house, but only the ghost get notification of the number of people it made flee from their target.

It's about as easily confirmable as the Jailor. If you cc a ghost, you're going to have a bad time.

Unique it is!
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:11 am

Good, then the Ghost stays unique, thank you Kirize.
What should be changed, or worded better of my role?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Arpitr20 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:39 am

personally, both of them are good as they are.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:58 am

I think that it should be every visitor, not just malicious.
If you have a problem with me or anything I do, tell me about it instead of ring passive aggressive. I consider most people here my friends and I'd rather not live in darkness, but try to resolve the situation. I can't hear what you don't say.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:34 pm

I have decided against that when I created the role because it can have some advantages of it.
- This could save the killing roles when a Werewolf (who has traced the Ghosts scent).
- Lookouts won't be able to see any visiting killing role.
- (The target does not receive any notification [Witched, Transed, Roleblocked and blackmailed.])
But if you could provide a good explanation why it should be the case, I will rethink my decision, Kirize.
If I will keep the drive away only people with malicious intentions, shall I include the Blackmailer?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby raphikey » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:52 pm

i think its really good that way, ghost unique is, i think, really important otherwise too op
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Kirize12 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:06 pm

Jerme wrote:I have decided against that when I created the role because it can have some advantages of it.
- This could save the killing roles when a Werewolf (who has traced the Ghosts scent).
- Lookouts won't be able to see any visiting killing role.
- (The target does not receive any notification [Witched, Transed, Roleblocked and blackmailed.])
But if you could provide a good explanation why it should be the case, I will rethink my decision, Kirize.
If I will keep the drive away only people with malicious intentions, shall I include the Blackmailer?

As of now, there's no way the Ghost can "backfire."
If you have a problem with me or anything I do, tell me about it instead of ring passive aggressive. I consider most people here my friends and I'd rather not live in darkness, but try to resolve the situation. I can't hear what you don't say.

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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:11 pm

I was told once, the roleblock if said person would be enough of a backfire. Currently there are many roles, which are preventing every visit, so this is for me another reason to stick with hindering only malicious activity at the targets house (still unsure if I should count blackmailing as a malicious visit).
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Krazikitteh » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:40 am

So a few questions/suggestions about the Lost spirit.

o First off they should be immune at night. They should be forced to VISIT a killing role. Dying at night comes way to easily. It should be more like 'begging' to be killed.
o Second I think a charges (Vig, vet, jailor etc) Should be used. If a jailor kills a Lost Spirit I think it should count the same as "Visiting" the killer and dying. Vet may kill multiple people in one night so their alert should be used.
o Lastly for investigation results what about something like: You target wants to be killed. They are jester or Lost Spirit. I'm not sure where disguiser would go just yet but I think Jester and Lost Spirit would go great together.
o I lied I'm not done. xD If you don't want to make them immune when attacked (From not visiting) Then maybe there should be some sort of punishment for killing the Spirit. Like how the jester get's revenge, there can be a different sort of repercussion.
o I can't stop I'm sorry. xD Maybe Neutral Evil for Alignment instead? I think the Spirit is a lot similar to the Jester so I feel like they should be more closely related?

These all just some ideas I am spitting out btw. If you don't like them so be it. ;) And if I am mistaken by any of the rules for these let me know. I sometimes miss thing when I read it all through.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:05 am

Krazikitteh wrote:So a few questions/suggestions about the Lost spirit.

o First off they should be immune at night. They should be forced to VISIT a killing role. Dying at night comes way to easily. It should be more like 'begging' to be killed.
o Second I think a charges (Vig, vet, jailor etc) Should be used. If a jailor kills a Lost Spirit I think it should count the same as "Visiting" the killer and dying. Vet may kill multiple people in one night so their alert should be used.
o Lastly for investigation results what about something like: You target wants to be killed. They are jester or Lost Spirit. I'm not sure where disguiser would go just yet but I think Jester and Lost Spirit would go great together.
o I lied I'm not done. xD If you don't want to make them immune when attacked (From not visiting) Then maybe there should be some sort of punishment for killing the Spirit. Like how the jester get's revenge, there can be a different sort of repercussion.
o I can't stop I'm sorry. xD Maybe Neutral Evil for Alignment instead? I think the Spirit is a lot similar to the Jester so I feel like they should be more closely related?

These all just some ideas I am spitting out btw. If you don't like them so be it. ;) And if I am mistaken by any of the rules for these let me know. I sometimes miss thing when I read it all through.

Thank your for your suggestions
Making the Lost Sprit becoming nightimmune makes this role easier to win with, I do not want that. This role is liked because it is a reverse Jester, which is hard to gai na victory with.
If the Lost spirit visits an idle Town Killing role, then nothing will happen, but if this role is using of of their charges, then the Spirit has archived its victory. I need still to deice if two charges are consumed if Jailor/Vig is visited
These investigative results would be an instant Execute/Shot, the Lost Spirit should not be found that easily.
There won't be a punishment from killing a Lost Spirit, only a reward for the person who makes it succeed. There should not be a punishment for killing a role at night (only the guilt of having denied the victory of a possibly allied role. The Jester get revenge from the grave, when this role succeeds, the Lost Spirit is a fulfledge reversed Jester, so its released recieves a reward.
This role causes no harm to town, in contrast to the Neutral(Evil) roles (Executioners and Jesters are wasting a lynch if successful, Witch cannot win with town), so I prefer staying with the current alignment.

Do you have still any questions or suggestion you would liek to have clarified?
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