Lost Spirit and Ghost

Old Role Ideas

What of the roles needs more tweaking

Nothing (Ghost)
59
22%
Nothing (Lost Spirit)
61
23%
Alignment (Ghost) -> comment
16
6%
Alignment (Lost Spirit) -> comment
13
5%
Abilites/Attributes (Ghost) -> comment
26
10%
Abilites/Attributes (Lost Spirit) -> comment
21
8%
Goal (Ghost) -> comment
14
5%
Goal (Lost Spirit) -> comment
16
6%
Investigation results (Ghost) -> comment
24
9%
Investigation results (Lost Spirit) -> comment
17
6%
 
Total votes : 267

Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Migzypoo » Tue May 31, 2016 6:06 am

I feel like ghost is still way too powerfull.
it's like a doctor who also roleblocks at the same time.

I feel like it needs a nerf of some sort... like...
- be unable to vote people up the stand.
- Cannot speak during the day, but can speak to their target at night. (sounds very ghost-like right?)
Or maybe is only able to talk to the medium(maybe other roles who do dead stuff?) through whispers? Where he gets only 1 chance every day to figure out who the medium is. Which means he'll waste a lot of time if there's no medium.
- etc?

these nerfs may seem huge, but having a roleblock + heal/scare evil people away is ridiculously OP.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Tue May 31, 2016 6:26 am

You have interestign ideas, but there is the thing that balance is more important than lore.
- Unable to vote might be fitting the lore, but would harm the balance of the town
- Unable to speak fits lore, but would be firstly frustrating for the player and secondly a closely autoconfirm
- Speaking to Medium: Roledependecy --> No way, 2. Autoconfirmation of a Mediums existance and name
- He is not a Jailor, so there won't be a nightchat

But thank you for your input. I previously had that the Ghost was only able to use the ability 4 times.
Have you seen that the Ghost is unable to visit/protect the same target twice in a row?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Migzypoo » Tue May 31, 2016 6:55 am

I cant seem to find the "the Ghost is unable to visit/protect the same target twice in a row" part. Where did you place it?...
but I'd be ok with that actually. The power of a doc/escort if often that they can target the same person multiple times.
Still feels a bit strong. but it's better.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:24 pm

You are right, it is not added yet.
I thought I did add it, but well thank you for reminding me, that I haven't added it yet.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:19 pm

Image Image

I still need to crop the abilities of the Ghost a bit more to add "You cannot visit the same target twice"
Any ideas what I can change for that?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:54 pm

That is a good one, might give me an additional line or two. Gonna update it when I am home again.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:26 am

That when the Ghost is either jailed, or visits the Jailor/Jailed target, none of them can die.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:05 am

If the Ghost is not jailed then they can be killed, but the Jailor (even if Jailor has jailed the Werewolf on fullmoon, or the Serial Killer) and the jailed target (even if Jailor attemtped to execute) cannot die.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby pucca25 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:11 pm

I think the investigation result for the lost spirit should be: "Your target doesn't want to live at all. They must be a Jester or Lost Spirit!"
Oh look a signature. I little to no thought into this.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:34 am

This result would not be balanced at all, but thank you for your input.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby BPsycho2 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:28 am

Investigator results improvement.: options

Your target's home smells like death. They are either a Medium, Lost Spirit, Janitor, or Jester

Your target's home smells like death. They are either a Veteran, Lost Spirit, Survivor, or Werewolf
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:28 pm

@BPsycho2: Currently the Investigationresults you tried to change/adapt, were the ones I chose for the pre 1.5 live version of the investigation results with a changed flavor text to fit in the Lost Spirit, as I think this role would fit in this section best.

I probably need to take a look into the future results to have them up to date, when the 1.5 Patch goes live at the end of this month.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Cenas4life » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:32 pm

Sounds much to like a alternate jester to me. Sorry /No Support
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby ToSPlayerre » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:35 pm

Ghost investigative results: Escort/Consort/Ghost or Survivor/Ghost/Witch
First Result:
Because having all the roleblockers is generally good
But the Consort already has an easy time claiming
Second Result:
This would put the Survivor in a slightly better position, because Witch isnt a super pressing lynch.
Witch would have a tough claimspace, but could pull off Survivor if they get their Autovest.

Ghost should not be able to spare the Witches, so add that.

I personally just dislike the concept of the Lost Spirit.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:36 pm

Escort/Consort/Ghost could also work, you are right.
The other result is not a good one, especially since this result is not an existign one of the TG at first.
What do you mean with "sparing Witches?"

For the Lost Spirit, can you tell me more about WHY you dislike it?
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby BPsycho2 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:01 am

Escort, Transporter, Ghost, Consort works.

in that order.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:48 am

Updated the ivnestigation results for both roles.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Cenas4life » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:31 pm

The idea is kind of cool, but the goal is way to easy. /No Support (until goal is changed)
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:11 pm

One question: Have you fully read the goal of the Lost Spirit?
It has to actively find a killing role and does not need just to be killed at night. So you need to find either a Mafioso, Godfather, Serial Killer or Werewolf, or TK role which uses their ability that night, in order to be victorious.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Cenas4life » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:52 pm

The ghost is pretty much identical to the doctor, except that it also role blocks the person it is trying to protect. It does also protect from douses, but I still see it as a role that is very very similar to a doctor, but with the drawback of role blocking its target.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Skulomania » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:10 pm

This is going to be my thoughts on the Ghost role only.

The Ghost role seems a bit odd. It essentially seems like an over-extended doctor that seems just too all over the place and unbalanced with escort and jailor abilities that borderline it as Town Support/Town Protective. I am going to outline just some of the points that make me feel this way. the point-taking style is being written as I read the role. A conclusion will be stated at the end.

1. It roleblocks its target. Seems counter-intuitive to roleblock your target as you are protecting them from death but are impeding on their ability. This seems like the jailor's roleblocking/protecting ability minus all the other things that happen in jail. So this also borderline is becoming a Town Protective/Town Support as you can potentially roleblock a scum role, like the jailor and escort can.

2. The inability to visit someone 2 times in a row, although is a good way to separate it from escort and jailor in a way, seems again, counter-intuitive. You essentially have just protected/roleblocked a potentially confirmed townie and wasted his/her night , to only have him/her die the next night. You essentially have delayed their death. It almost seems like this role should be played as a semi Town Support/Town Protective.

3. Its immunity to witches and roleblocks, essentially means no one can stop it from protecting/roleblocking a scum or townie. So, similiar to the Jailor in terms of it being able to target anyone it wants, although the execution part may be hindered. Not to mention with your roleblocking piercing immunity, you can roleblock anyone. This seems a little unbalanced.

4. So the role is also able to roleblock a jailor's execution if targeted, although it is also able to roleblock a jailor's execution by targeting the jailed person. So essentially a roleblocking role that doesn't even have to target the jailor to roleblock. i don't know how i feel about that. This is starting to sound more and more like an escort/consort on steroids with over-extending healing powers. Also the jailor is unable to execute the Ghost? Would the ghost not just say jailor execute me you will not be able to so i can prove myself i am ghost..So the role can now confirm itself?

5. Lookouts will not see the killing role visit. That seems rather unfortunate, and again, counter-intuitive and quite unfair to the lookout. The role is essentially healing/roleblocking a target and on top of that making it unable for the lookout to see who attacked. So essentially, nothing even happened. This seems to hurt town more than anyone, as it punishes the lookout for targeting the right person, in which lookout would of been able to lynch the next day. I do not see the point of this. And it also makes the mafia roles detection immune from spy if they visit the ghost's target. This also confirms the Ghost's presence in the game for the Spy, for if someone claimed to be attacked you would know it was the ghost who probably healed them. I do not really understand why a TP(although heavily TS in this case) should have such ability to inflict such detection immunity onto others.

6. The WW interaction i suppose means that the Ghost is immune if it heals a target attacked by the WW. the WW should not be effected like this. The WW is hard enough as it is.

7. There's just too much of everything going on here in this role unfortunately.

Conclusion:

Overall, I am not feeling it with this role. The thing about Town roles is that they a lot of the times have to be quite 1-dimensional, they cannot have too much power, but at the same time they cannot have too little. They also have to be careful of borrowing too many similiar features/abilities from other town roles in other alignments as the town roles were put into specific categories for a reason, and if a role overlaps too heavily, it makes it rather complicated and unbalanced. So while the Ghost role has good effort put into it, it is too all over the place for me and not balanced enough as a town role, and thus I do not think will be a good addition into the game.

Something this complex in its abilities would would fit better as a non-town role (not saying the Ghost should be non-town, but simply its complexity of its abilities), for non-town roles have a lot of the times more freedom in their range of abilities and impact. Town roles can have a bit of variety in their abilities as well, but they must all inter-connect and relate, as in they must all be apart of the realm of their alignment. Unfortunately the Ghost role doesn't accomplish the latter.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby BPsycho2 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:22 pm

Zoroark, he's got a bit of a point there.

Don't get me wrong, Ghost is cool. But there can be a Doctor there..

It's essentially a Jailor that doesn't talk... RB and Heal. and why have a ghost when there are Doctors. that's actually negative utility because the Doctor is a 100% upgrade, kinda. the Ghost is partially immune to werewolves for seemingly no reason, Lookouts don't see the killer when the ghost shows up(Doctor has that benefit), and it doesn't say anything saying the ghost CAN ACTUALLY TELL IF HIS TARGET WAS ATTACKED, SO HE HAS NO IDEA IF HIS TARGET WAS ATTACKED OR WAS THE KILLER.(Not yelling, just highlighting that, sorry.) I'm starting to see what he's talking about here.. Uh, yeah.

The Ghost can end up harming his own friends, or roleblocking the mafia and not knowing. it's only saving grace is that it can find the Mafia killer, but.. it can't tell. and it can't spam rb, so it can't lock anything down..

Ghost could be Neutral Benign, but then Town gets attacked more often which makes it town sided, which we don't need.. I can no longer see this doing well in the game. Sorry again.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby Jerme » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:59 pm

The Ghost does get notified when they successfully scare away someone, but not their target. But I get the point of it being a more or less downgraded Doctor.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby BPsycho2 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:09 pm

Jerme wrote:The Ghost does get notified when they successfully scare away someone, but not their target. But I get the point of it being a more or less downgraded Doctor.


Yeah, really sorry but I just can't see it in game any more. Lost Spirit is still good though, still good.
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Re: Lost Spirit and Ghost

Postby MaskedPokerFace » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:17 pm

Attributes: It is restless and tries to die at night. It may visit someone each night. If the visited player is able to kill (or being attacked), the Lost Spirit directs the hit on it as well.
it looks like bodyguard?
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