Jester killing should roleblock.

[Tormental]

I've seen a couple games now, admittedly not many, where the Jester is one of the three people left at the end of the game, and he gets hanged.

Then, he kills one person and that person kills the third, so nobody but the Jester wins because every single player is dead.

While that's great for the Jester, he already wins just by being lynched so why not prevent these situations?

In my perfect world, the Jester's killing would automatically roleblock the target. That means if the target is a Doctor, they can't heal, and so on... but more importantly if the Jester's target is a killing role, they don't get to murder someone and then "die of guilt".

It doesn't really make sense, story-wise either.

You kill the Jester, you murder someone at night, THEN you go home, get haunted, and feel so guilty you die?


So yeah.


It's hard enough to get hung as Jester that I think a "roleblock buff" isn't too bad.

[Dwern]

It does make sense. You do your duties before you die :O DUTY FIRST

[Tormental]

All I can picture is a dude like...

"I can't believe I killed the Jester!" *gunshot* "I'm so guilty about..." *gunshot* "Damn, why won't this Escort die?" *gunshot* "There we go. Okay, I AM SO SAD."

[Sligneris]

All I can picture is a dude like...

"I can't believe I killed the Jester!" *gunshot* "I'm so guilty about..." *gunshot* "Damn, why won't this Escort die?" *gunshot* "There we go. Okay, I AM SO SAD."

Yeah, the thing with Jester is pretty much that, even if you're SK xD

[TheScowler]

All I can picture is a dude like...

"I can't believe I killed the Jester!" *gunshot* "I'm so guilty about..." *gunshot* "Damn, why won't this Escort die?" *gunshot* "There we go. Okay, I AM SO SAD."

I feel bad for the psychiatrists in Salem. (Hey, another new role!)

[Dwern]

All I can picture is a dude like...

"I can't believe I killed the Jester!" *gunshot* "I'm so guilty about..." *gunshot* "Damn, why won't this Escort die?" *gunshot* "There we go. Okay, I AM SO SAD."

not necessarily. I mean he could go and kill someone immediately in the heat of the moment. Then after coming home he sits down and has time to think about what he had done.

Also, it is kind of supernatural, since the jester 'picks' the person. So he doesn't feel guilty until the last moment.

[andirafanan]

Well, based on the wiki ( http://town-of-salem.wikia.com/wiki/Jester ) The responsible dies out of guilt. Maybe he realizes that the person who makes him laugh when he was a child was lynched because of him. And now the person can't stop of thinking about it (Because of the Jester haunting him, and so is his consciousness) that he killed himself. Reasonable enough?

[Tormental]

Yes, but my point was it would be nice if the Jester's guilt-killing roleblocked the victim.

Mechanics-wise: It sucks when nobody wins but Jester because they Guilt-kill the GF, and the GF murders the last townie in the same night.

Story-wise: As I mentioned, you lynch someone, you feel guilty about it, but you think "Hey, no reason I shouldn't murder the Medium before I die of horrible, painful, fatal guilt." and that's kind of odd.

[mouthyexpert]

A jester win is a thing of beauty, and you are a heartless monster for wanting it removed.

For one thing, a jester win is the absolute rarest kind of end to a round, as it requires an extremely specific set of circumstances to occur: the last three people alive need to be a jester, a killer antagonist, and a non-night-immune role that isn't on the same team as the antagonist. The other two players need to vote for the jester to be hanged, and then the jester needs to haunt the antagonist when he might not even know who it is. Seriously, what are the odds of a jester making it to the final three without anyone finding out that they're a jester? Not very good. And then, even if they manage to get hanged, there's a fifty-fifty chance that they won't even haunt the correct player to secure a jester win.

Second of all, and I seriously cannot stress this enough: losing a round is not a big deal. The only thing you miss out on is maybe a few points for winning for the first time with a given role. You should not be that twisted up about losing out on a few points.

Speaking of which, I can't remember if the jester gets bonus points for pulling off a jester win. They really should, considering the difficulty involved.

[TheScowler]

A jester win is a thing of beauty, and you are a heartless monster for wanting it removed.

For one thing, a jester win is the absolute rarest kind of end to a round, as it requires an extremely specific set of circumstances to occur: the last three people alive need to be a jester, a killer antagonist, and a non-night-immune role that isn't on the same team as the antagonist. The other two players need to vote for the jester to be hanged, and then the jester needs to haunt the antagonist when he might not even know who it is. Seriously, what are the odds of a jester making it to the final three without anyone finding out that they're a jester? Not very good. And then, even if they manage to get hanged, there's a fifty-fifty chance that they won't even haunt the correct player to secure a jester win.

Second of all, and I seriously cannot stress this enough: losing a round is not a big deal. The only thing you miss out on is maybe a few points for winning for the first time with a given role. You should not be that twisted up about losing out on a few points.

Speaking of which, I can't remember if the jester gets bonus points for pulling off a jester win. They really should, considering the difficulty involved.

Very true, and well worded. My hat goes off to you, sir/ma'm.

[Tormental]

A jester win is a thing of beauty, and you are a heartless monster for wanting it removed.

For one thing, a jester win is the absolute rarest kind of end to a round, as it requires an extremely specific set of circumstances to occur: the last three people alive need to be a jester, a killer antagonist, and a non-night-immune role that isn't on the same team as the antagonist. The other two players need to vote for the jester to be hanged, and then the jester needs to haunt the antagonist when he might not even know who it is. Seriously, what are the odds of a jester making it to the final three without anyone finding out that they're a jester? Not very good. And then, even if they manage to get hanged, there's a fifty-fifty chance that they won't even haunt the correct player to secure a jester win.

Unfortunately, that's simple luck as opposed to any sort of skill.

The Jester's sole purpose is to get hanged, so if they are in the final three they are in fact playing very badly. XD

Second of all, and I seriously cannot stress this enough: losing a round is not a big deal. The only thing you miss out on is maybe a few points for winning for the first time with a given role.

Exactly, so you and I are on even sides. It's no big deal if this doesn't change, and it's no big deal if it does change, so why not fall on the side that would benefit the most players as opposed to only rewarding the one person who is guaranteed to have played their role badly?

You should not be that twisted up about losing out on a few points.

I'm not twisted up about it, this is a suggestion and discussion. On the other hand, who was calling someone a monster again?

[mouthyexpert]

Unfortunately, that's simple luck as opposed to any sort of skill.

The Jester's sole purpose is to get hanged, so if they are in the final three they are in fact playing very badly. XD

If the jester is playing badly, then what does that say about the people who lynch said jester?

Exactly, so you and I are on even sides. It's no big deal if this doesn't change, and it's no big deal if it does change, so why not fall on the side that would benefit the most players as opposed to only rewarding the one person who is guaranteed to have played their role badly?

You can't say it's not a big deal and then immediately say that changing it would benefit most players. How would it benefit them? By giving the killer the win in the event of the extremely unlikely set of circumstances where this can be an issue? Because that's the only other possible outcome of this.

Another point I forgot to make is that if jesters only roleblocked people they haunted rather than killing them, people would be WAY less afraid of lynching them. It would go from an "OH SHIT" moment to an "oh well" moment, and would take away a large part of the paranoia that makes this game so fun, in my opinion.

[Tormental]

If the jester is playing badly, then what does that say about the people who lynch said jester?

Jester has one goal. Die. As he continues living, he gets farther and farther from the goal.

Almost everyone else has two goals. Survive and find the threats to them.

If the Jester and two non-jesters are left in a round, the Jester is by default the less accomplished player by virtue of those goals existing.

If you think a Jester failing to get lynched is on the same level as two paranoid remaining players not knowing which of the others is really SK or simply pretending, then I dunno what to tell you.

You can't say [...]

I can, actually.

How would it benefit them? By giving the killer the win in the event of the extremely unlikely set of circumstances where this can be an issue? Because that's the only other possible outcome of this.

That's totally not the only other possible outcome.

For example: Jester, SK, and Town remain.
Jester guilt-kills and roleblocks the SK who made the mistake of lynching him, and Town wins.

Or he could pick the town member if he wants, and accomplish what you mentioned.

Plus you're ignoring the fact this isn't ONLY affecting the final three players. Let's say Jester kills SK and roleblocks him, saving their victim on night three or four... or maybe Jester kills the Jailor who was ABOUT to execute the Godfather, blocking his execution with that roleblock...

You're keeping a very closed mind about this basically JUST because you want Jester to be the ONLY winner in the three-person scenerio.

Another point I forgot to make is that if jesters only roleblocked people they haunted rather than killing them, people would be WAY less afraid of lynching them.

I never said "only" so I think maybe you didn't read the post.

"the Jester's killing would automatically roleblock the target."

In other words, the Jester choosing someone to haunt would roleblock them in addition to killing them.

[Dwern]

This just turned out into an all out argument. Why can't we all agree that jester is already balanced?
If he wasn't, people wouldn't be so scared of lynching the jester.
He is perfect as it is. Do not touch it

[Tormental]

Disagree.

Jester is more powerful allowing their victim to kill than if they roleblocked. Their goal is chaos and they get double the tragedy right now.

[mouthyexpert]

Oh. Oh. Okay I misunderstood what you were saying.

Still disagree though, because I think jester wins are funny, and I still don't think they're common enough that they need to be fixed.