Electrician (Neutral Killing)

Old Role Ideas

Should this be added into the game? Our goal is 100 votes, and then further action will be taken.

Yes, this should be added into the game.
229
85%
Yes, this should be added into the game.
40
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Total votes : 269

Re: Electrician

Postby Metrion » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:17 pm

The problem is end game this role is really bad. Everyone uncharged just stops visiting ergo zero net kills if mafia wipes. It's a fun role that I've been tinkering with myself, I believe with both saw it from the same medium actually, but it has flaws when you consider it on it's own.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:41 pm

Metrion wrote:The problem is end game this role is really bad. Everyone uncharged just stops visiting ergo zero net kills if mafia wipes. It's a fun role that I've been tinkering with myself, I believe with both saw it from the same medium actually, but it has flaws when you consider it on it's own.


Wait what?

So my idea...wasn't original?
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Re: Electrician

Postby Flamingkamikaze » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:43 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
Metrion wrote:The problem is end game this role is really bad. Everyone uncharged just stops visiting ergo zero net kills if mafia wipes. It's a fun role that I've been tinkering with myself, I believe with both saw it from the same medium actually, but it has flaws when you consider it on it's own.


Wait what?

So my idea...wasn't original?


Apperantly not, also I brought this up earlier just saying so I assumed you already considered it.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:45 pm

Flamingkamikaze wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:
Metrion wrote:The problem is end game this role is really bad. Everyone uncharged just stops visiting ergo zero net kills if mafia wipes. It's a fun role that I've been tinkering with myself, I believe with both saw it from the same medium actually, but it has flaws when you consider it on it's own.


Wait what?

So my idea...wasn't original?


Apperantly not, also I brought this up earlier just saying so I assumed you already considered it.


I must have missed that. Sorry.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Flamingkamikaze » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:50 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
Flamingkamikaze wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:
Wait what?

So my idea...wasn't original?


Apperantly not, also I brought this up earlier just saying so I assumed you already considered it.


I must have missed that. Sorry.


you responded to it I guess you just missed my point, the main point of my post was this.

If you get to the closing days it will most likely be hard to pull off a win from the game, seeing as how it might be hard to get your targets to visit each other.
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Re: Electrician

Postby iiBeastyy » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:44 am

Funny thing is I made a new category called Effect Immunity, which means that you are immune to all effects at night, other than death and roleblocking. I think Electrician should also have Effect Immunity. That would just make it too OP, wouldn't it?
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Re: Electrician

Postby LordTeague » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:03 am

Perhaps a good way around a stalemate end-game is a one-time use 'Kill all charged targets' ability that works similarly to that of the Arsonist, giving the Electrician a way to end stalemates if necessary.
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Re: Electrician

Postby dota2reporter » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:11 am

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Re: Electrician

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:24 am

LordTeague wrote:Perhaps a good way around a stalemate end-game is a one-time use 'Kill all charged targets' ability that works similarly to that of the Arsonist, giving the Electrician a way to end stalemates if necessary.

That basically makes this a better Arsonist.

Maybe he should just be able to either:

1. Auto-win in stalemates against anybody

2. Have a single night-immunity piercing attack or some such option (not charging them, electrocuting them)

Or whatever else is thought of.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:34 am

Hey guys, I made it so that Electrician can charge someone twice to electrocute them. Not sure if this should ignore night immunity.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Scootalootaloo » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:19 am

Charging someone twice would require visiting a charged target... I'm wondering if we can do something for a charged electrician?

Maybe, like arso, if they do nothing one night they uncharge themselves.

Anyway, on the topic of whether charging someone twice would ignore immunity: It should work the same way as being electrocuted by a charged target visiting another.
If that ignores immunity, so does double-charging, etc.

The only difference would be in the Bodyguard- since you are visiting that person that night, BG can protect them from a second charge. (Although a charged BG might not want to, if they know the person is already charged once...)
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Re: Electrician

Postby Invenblocker » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm

Interesting role. Maybe make "target self" be to remove a charge (like an arsonist can remain passive in order to self clean).
Also, can a doctor save people from the electricution when they visit each other?
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Re: Electrician

Postby Kirize12 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:14 pm

Scootalootaloo wrote:Charging someone twice would require visiting a charged target... I'm wondering if we can do something for a charged electrician?

Maybe, like arso, if they do nothing one night they uncharge themselves.

Anyway, on the topic of whether charging someone twice would ignore immunity: It should work the same way as being electrocuted by a charged target visiting another.
If that ignores immunity, so does double-charging, etc.

The only difference would be in the Bodyguard- since you are visiting that person that night, BG can protect them from a second charge. (Although a charged BG might not want to, if they know the person is already charged once...)


The Electrician can visit someone twice to charge them twice. They then die of Electrocution.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Electrician

Postby murat1996 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:02 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
Scootalootaloo wrote:Charging someone twice would require visiting a charged target... I'm wondering if we can do something for a charged electrician?

Maybe, like arso, if they do nothing one night they uncharge themselves.

Anyway, on the topic of whether charging someone twice would ignore immunity: It should work the same way as being electrocuted by a charged target visiting another.
If that ignores immunity, so does double-charging, etc.

The only difference would be in the Bodyguard- since you are visiting that person that night, BG can protect them from a second charge. (Although a charged BG might not want to, if they know the person is already charged once...)


The Electrician can visit someone twice to charge them twice. They then die of Electrocution.


That really makes sense I guess Kirize :D
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Re: Electrician

Postby orangeandblack5 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:14 am

VentureCaptured wrote:I have a question, two actually.

What happens when a charged Jailor jails a charged target? Do they both electrocuted?

If a charged killing role attacks a charged target, does the killer die too?

1. Yes

2. Yes


Also, the two visit electrocution should (imo) ignore night immunity.

It's like an underpowered WW, and basically the same as an Arsonist. A WW can only go every other night, but they can kill a lot of people. An Arsonist takes one night to douse and one night to ignite, but can spend multiple nights dousing. The Electrician fits right in with these two, so ignoring night immunity makes sense.

Honestly, the more I think about it the more sense this role makes. If I could, I would add it to the game. Good job.
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that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

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Re: Electrician

Postby Kirize12 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:34 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:They should die immediately at the beginning of the night, because the jailor interrogating him and writing in his will and THEN being electrocuted makes no sense.

This way the jailor can't change his will that night (he's already dead).


By that logic SK should kill Jailor at beginning of night.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Kiyosen » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:05 pm

This role I like. Though the Electrician should probably be unique if they have the potential to kill each other without a chance to stop it, just like the Werewolf.

EDIT: I also kinda don't like the Investigator's results unless you're making the Investigator a weakness against this role. Also darn, now this counts as an actual edit since I'm too slow on my phone.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Kirize12 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:17 pm

Kiyosen wrote:This role I like. Though the Electrician should probably be unique if they have the potential to kill each other without a chance to stop it, just like the Werewolf.


Electrician should be charge immune then.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

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Re: Electrician

Postby Tyomcha » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:23 pm

The problem with this role is that the charged person knows they're charged, so they can just shout out "I'M CHARGED", and then nobody who's charged visits them, and then the role just becomes an SK that takes 2 nights to kill, doesn't kill jailors or RBers and pierces night immunity. And since I can't see the pierces night immunity part giving it THAT much of a boost, it basically becomes a nerfed SK.
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Re: Electrician

Postby LordTeague » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:33 pm

There is always the potential for mishaps to occur where people panic and think visiting one person is a good idea without remembering that both of them are charged.

While it cannot be relied upon, it is something that will happen in at least some games.
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Re: Electrician

Postby orangeandblack5 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:51 pm

Not only that, but some people will think that others are lying about being charged. Others will lie about being charged.

Kirize12 wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:They should die immediately at the beginning of the night, because the jailor interrogating him and writing in his will and THEN being electrocuted makes no sense.

This way the jailor can't change his will that night (he's already dead).


By that logic SK should kill Jailor at beginning of night.


Not really. If you think about it, the SK would grab his knife and kill the Jailor after being released. If a charged Jailor jails a charged target, the charge should kill them immediately (realistically).
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Tyomcha » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:51 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:Not only that, but some people will think that others are lying about being charged. Others will lie about being charged.

LordTeague wrote:There is always the potential for mishaps to occur where people panic and think visiting one person is a good idea without remembering that both of them are charged.

While it cannot be relied upon, it is something that will happen in at least some games.

True, both of those could happen. But. How many times have you seen someone lie about being doused by an arsonist? Unless they're the arso, rarely. And while true, people will lie, I'd say most people would still be unwilling to take the risk. Plus, if normally one person gets charged per day (signaling that there's 1 electrician), then people would know someone's lying if 2 people claim charged in 1 day, and most of the time will trust them if only 1 person claims charged. The mishaps can be easily avoided by reminding the Town that you're charged every day, and even without that would be unlikely.
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Re: Electrician

Postby TheKinkyFajita » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:59 am

I love the idea, maybe needs something to more strongly differentiate it from the Arsonist though...? No idea, but I definitely like both the idea and this role. Nice job, 8/10.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Konsti90 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:10 am

Well the Problem i see is not the "immunity" u gain by pretending u were electrocuted. I think it will be hard to win cause, i wouldnt move a bit if i were electrocuted and i assume most others would too, cause nobody wants to die!

Its not that i dont like the concept it just might not work out that way and if u just charge them 2 times then u have another slightly different Arsonist.

Maybe it would need a forced random movement if electrocuted ppl dont want to move, dont know if thats good or would work like that.
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Re: Electrician

Postby Flamingkamikaze » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:31 am

Konsti90 wrote:Well the Problem i see is not the "immunity" u gain by pretending u were electrocuted. I think it will be hard to win cause, i wouldnt move a bit if i were electrocuted and i assume most others would too, cause nobody wants to die!

Its not that i dont like the concept it just might not work out that way and if u just charge them 2 times then u have another slightly different Arsonist.

Maybe it would need a forced random movement if electrocuted ppl dont want to move, dont know if thats good or would work like that.


Well the point of arsonist isn't to douse and ignite so that part doesn't really make sense, that is there to help with this roles end game. Also if you stopped doing anything when you were doused then you would likely have a hard time winning seeing as how you wouldn't be helping your team at all.
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