The Scientist (Town Investigative) (Used in Testing Grounds)

[IndiguanaYT]

True. It would complicate the game a great deal...mayhaps there should be an optional tutorial for it if it came up in game? I.e. click here for how the Scientist would work? Yeah, was tired at the time...wasn't thinking right.

[HereThereEverywhere]

True. It would complicate the game a great deal...mayhaps there should be an optional tutorial for it if it came up in game? I.e. click here for how the Scientist would work? Yeah, was tired at the time...wasn't thinking right.

You're still not thinking right.
"Mayhaps"
Mayhap or perhaps, there's no in-between.
They are updating the tutorial, if this were added into the game I'm sure they'd include advice on it.

[playhavock]

I like it!

[murat1996]

I like it!

Give a reason on why u like it

[Parallax7]

My Review of:
Scientist Town(Investigative)
Spoiler:

The Investigator and the Sheriff are both fairly linear Town Investigative roles. Just a point and click and you are twenty steps nearer to discerning the game state and figuring out who is who.

Bold statement this role better be good.

The Scientist is a Town Investigative role that has a much higher skill cap but is potentially much more powerful, with the ability to potentially clear TWO townies in one fell swoop or catch TWO Mafia back to back... IF you are good at making associations between players.

That's a lot of ifs. Too many imo. Roles in Salem are generic and simple. Trust me we don't need any kind of complexicty. I've found myself stuck with complete morons...In Ranked, mind you. Now that's my personal experience and opinion concerning why you made this role. If it's overly complex; no.

I would like to make The Scientist a reality as it shifts the focus of investigative roles away from examining players as atomized individuals towards examining how players are related or interconnected with each other. It is a good thing for this game, in my opinion, to create roles that examine interpersonal dynamics of Town and Mafia behavior.

So you want to compare multiple players to see what their differences or similarities are? Hmm. Okay...

For those of you who are more familiar with vanilla Mafia, there is a common role called the "Parity Cop." Instead of checking for Green for Town and Red for Mafia, the Parity Cop compares two people and returns with a result of "Same" or "Different" alignment. This is my favorite power role in vanilla Mafia as it involves more critical thinking on the part of Town while it heavily rewards those who use it well and I would enjoy seeing it in action in Town of Salem.

No I haven't heard about "Vanilla Mafia." I agree I like roles that have high risk reward. However I want to look at the number of roles in each alignment and see if this would work...It seems a little OP...Being as though I count more Killing roles than other alignment. Three TK, Three NK, Two, MK. That's 1/4 the role list (not counting this role)

This is my attempt to recreate the Parity Cop in Town of Salem terms.

Thanks Captain Obvious. Would never have struck me. I'm Jesting.

Name: Scientist

Seen this name before. However being as though this role is a minute older than a large potion of the roles I've seen, I'll refrain.

Alignment: Town Investigative

Wowza an Investigative role.

Summary: A fiery intellect who seeks to understand the world around him.

Fiery

Fiery

Fiery

Light em up up up.

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Get da bad guyz! :D

Has Night Ability?: Yes.

No shit Sherlock. Jesting.

Attributes:
-Take a fingerprint sample of one person each night.
-Compare their sample to the test subject from the previous night for similarities and differences in their alignment supertype.

Why the heck would add "Supertype" just write Alignment.

(Alignment Supertype= Town, Mafia, Neutral. Alignment Subtype like Killing, Protective, Deception, etc. are irrelevant.)

I actually figured this part out already. I'm SAMRT!:D

-The first sample will return no result; it is the control group for the next night's sample for comparison.

All science-y you must be a wise guy. The boss'll take care of you, wise guy. *itallian mob accent*

-You will throw away samples older than one day due to contamination and the previous experimental group becomes the control group.
-You may NOT sample yourself.
-You may NOT sample a revealed Mayor.

I think you should be able to sample yourself. Otherwise all this role is good for is after it dies and its last will assisting the Town. Unless it lives towards the end.

Wins with: Town, Survivor, Jester, Executioner, Amnesiac

All you need there is Town & Survivor

Must kill: Mafia, Serial Killer, Arsonist, Werewolf

Where is Witch at!?

Special Attributes: None.

Awh I love having 20 vote power and vote/night immunity!

Categories: None.

K.

Investigation Results:

Let's see what you're shaking...

Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious.

HE'S ARSONIST/GF!

Investigator: Your target gathers information. They must be an Investigator, Scientist, or Consigliere.

I don't have much of a problem with these results. Only two issues, I don't think BMG would go through the trouble changing all their Invest results for your role. Additionally I don't like how Scum can't reliably claim this role. As it is easy to fake.

Consigliere: Your target has a thirst for knowledge. They must be a Scientist!

HE MUST BE!!!!

Interaction with Framer: If two Townies are compared, the framed Townie will result in a "Different" check from the non-framed Townie. If a Framed Townie and a Mafia member are compared, the game will report a "Same" check.

That'd actually buff Framer a little. Spy still softcounters it so Rip.

Okay so I removed the Pros and Cons because most of which are self explanatory. My main problem with this role is the skill cap. I mean, of course it'd only appear in Ranked/Ranked Practice/Custom, but I all too often get PTSD flashbacks and triggered from the sheer stupidity and terrribleness many play with in TOS. Morons and numskulls plague the game. Otherwise this role is unique and has the potential to be extremely fun and useful. I'd say this belongs in TG. If it isn't already, I actually wouldn't mind seeing this in the actual game. Great work!

Sorry if I offended you any with my sarcasm.

[BlazinIce]

Joshua, the OP left

[HereThereEverywhere]

Joshua, sampling yourself would be too OP. Anyone who comes up with different would instantly be killed, assuming you can confirm yourself and whatnot.

You don't like how easily scum can claim it? That's a good thing.

Town can win without killing Witches.

Idk why I'm still here anymore

[Seththeking]

Lol Thia Role Is Great Imagine a Revived Jailor ComesBack D3 and then that night you pick him and let's go with Ash and then it says that Ash if Diffrent From Jailor, Next Day, This Bitch Ain't Town Hang This Lying Peace Of Shit! (Dude I love your role idea )

[orangeandblack5]

*Jester
*Framer
*Fear of the above
*Scientist not confirmed himself

[Exacerbated]

Now that scumhunting/scumreading has become regular practice in ranked mode, this role should be even more interesting.

[orangeandblack5]

Now that scumhunting/scumreading has become regular practice in ranked mode, this role should be even more interesting.

Plus this would help to push that farther.

[Seththeking]

I Support This!

[dirkpeta]

Aww, yes.

Now this is the type of role we need people suggesting. You have to be really good to play it well, and also can be an easy claim for mafia.

/support

[NettoTakashi]

Someone explain to me how this isn't just a Sheriff but worse.

Sheriff can reliably find Mafia (except GF), Coven (except the holder of the Necronomicon), and SK, and can find WW on full moon nights. It can't distinguish between Town and most other Neutrals, though.

If Scientist finds Mafia, they won't KNOW they've found Mafia until the alignment of a person they've investigated on an adjacent day is confirmed. It works much slower than Sheriff, with much less specific results. If you sample Town N1, then sample non-Town N2, and the person you sampled N1 is somehow proven to be Town, then congrats, you have someone you can lynch. But then what do you do with the person you sample N3? There's more than two alignments in ToS, so getting a result of "different" N3 doesn't necessarily mean you found another Town role, like you did N1. Yes, it's POSSIBLE you'll get a chain of Mafia Mafia Mafia, but that's possible with Sheriff as well, and doesn't require confirming a Townie/killing one of the chain of "Same" results in order to realize you have anything.

Consider this scenario:
Alice is a scientist.
N1, Alice samples Bob. No result yet.
N2, Alice samples Charlie. Result: Different.
N3, Alice samples Doug. Result: Different. Alice takes a guess that it's more likely Charlie is non-Town than that both Bob and Doug are non-Town, and gets him lynched. Sure enough, Charlie is Mafia.
But what about Bob and Doug? They could be Town, yes, but they could also be Neutral or Coven. And they won't even necessarily be the same as each other. She can't lower down Bob's alignment any further without spending a night going back to his house for another sample. And if she gets another result of "Different" from her N4 target (Eve), does that mean Alice should push to lynch Eve? Would a result of "Same" mean that Eve is safe?

Now let's suppose Alice instead gets these results:
N1: Bob, no result
N2: Charlie, same
N3: Doug, same
N4: Eve, different
Congrats, you've determined one of two things: either Eve is safe to lynch, or Bob, Charlie, and Doug are all safe to lynch. But, chances are a Sheriff would be able to tell you the same thing, and differentiate between the two. And if Bob/Charlie/Doug turn out to be three Neutral roles, then all you've ruled out for Eve is being Neutral, she could still be Town, Mafia, or Coven. Likewise, Eve turning out to be Neutral would be no guarantee that Bob/Charlie/Doug are Town, they could equally well be a team of Mafia. Heck, it's possible that Eve is Town and just happened to be Framed that night. Throw in the way that Disguiser can show up as whatever role it likes, or Framer makes its target show up as Mafia aligned, and you could falsely confirm "Townies" that are actually Mafia, quite easily!

For an Investigative role, this Scientist sure is slow to gather information. Yeah, you could sample a confirmed Townie and compare them to anyone else... but the moment you hit a "Different" result, you have to go back to the confirmed Townie to reestablish a baseline (if they're even still alive), since getting another "Different" after that is no guarantee of Town-ness. And what happens if the Scientist gets RB'd? Do they keep the sample from 2+ nights back? Or do they have to start all over, making it so an RB deprives them of results two nights in a row?

One major difference between ToS and the vanilla Mafia game is the number of alignments: it's not 2. To properly adapt this role to ToS, you need to take that under consideration. Sticking to "Good" and "Evil" as the two alignments could easily make the Scientist OP though, since the moment anyone the Scientist has investigated dies, they'll know exactly which of their other results are "Good" and which are "Evil" (barring Framer/Disguiser). My suggestion would be to keep samples for TWO nights, not one, so that if you get two results of "Different" in a row, you can tell whether you've gone back to where you started or on to a third thing. This would also allow Scientist to be noticeably hindered by Jail/RB without completely wrecking them... though blocking them twice in a row would still be nasty.

[Mystoc]

you basically said yourself it can find GF coven with book ww and asro well sherriff cant

also it can find NE depending on game mode

it can confirm someone isnt town or is town which a powerful tool

sheriff can only confirm that someone isn't some mafia and some NK not all them he isn't sure they are town are or that they arent town cause they are exceptions to his results,

the scientist is sure of this that is why its slower then sheriff and takes a lot skill to play

this doesn't seem like a worse sheriff to me cause it can do stuff sheriff cant

its sacrifices slow results for sure results seems balanced to me

It also gets exceptionally more powerful the later the game goes on cause less people to check and compare and more info gathered and town are able to confirm themselves

this by no means a weak role in my eyes

[NettoTakashi]

Maybe I'm not understanding it, then, because it doesn't seem to me like it gets "sure results". If you compare a stream of players, and one in the middle turns out to be, say, Amnesiac (which is Neutral), that doesn't tell you which of the ones surrounding that are good and which are bad. It's possible you investigated Town before and after the Amne, or Mafia before and after, or one Town one Mafia. I...

You know what? Thinking more and more about this, I'm starting to see ways this could be used. It still feels like it would build up too slowly, but without having actually seen it in action, I can't really say for sure. And a lot of people seem interested in this role, so I guess I'll just take a step back for now and see how this goes.

EDIT: Still want to know how being RBed/Jailed affects this though.

[DrZero11]

From what I have read, this role is the arsonist of investigative roles. Being able to potentially find all of the mafia, because their fingerprints match. If the scientist goes on a spree of finding matching people, and one of them is mafia, that's a lot of the mafia revealed the say day, unless there was a framer framing people, which is less likely in some game modes.
Also, if the person is sampled and then they die that night, it will instantly confirm if someone is of a certain category. For example if a sheriff is sampled night 1, dies that night and someone else is sampled and they are same, that's a instant confirm that the person is town (other than GF). No other role can 100% confirm town like this, and he can do it for several nights, potentially finding the entire town and making it impossible for evil roles to claim. A neutral that gets sampled and dies can easily find out a potential NK if the sample is a match the next night.
This role is horribly overpowered, even more so than the psychic. The basis for its night ability is so unfair as it can auto confirm town or not (other than GF or framed people and framers wont be in every game). No role can auto confirm town other than themselves, even then they might be the mafia variant. It can even catch out the entire mafia in one go if it has had a string of "same" matches, and one of them is mafia.

[NettoTakashi]

In the best case scenario, sure, Scientist can find all the evils in a row and get them all lynched, or find all the goods and get everyone else lynched. But that's the best case. What's the average case? That's what I'm not sure of. Would the *average* Scientist be more, or less effective than other TI roles? At this point, I can't really say.

[orangeandblack5]

Just gonna throw out there that Framer, Disguiser, and to some extent Janitor all exist and counter this role

[SkorumpowanyGlut]

I like this role a lot. If you are afraid that the role will be too hard, make it ranked only.

So? Did the developers pay any attention in the past?

[Flare12332]

I like the idea of a comparator, and I like the adding part about having to chain together the results, I think this is a really good role. Only thing I might want to take a look at is the flavor text of checking DNA, but that is a minor thing, and I don't have any ideas at this time.

Oh right, I forgot about the fact this game is set a bit before the enlightenment boom, whereas DNA wasn't discovered until 1860. Maybe skin cells or hair strands or something like that? They did have microscopes back then. (Antonie van Leeuwenhoek, etc.)

I'd like to point out that it takes place before Cars and Gasoline but we have an Arson and Transporter, but I do not support the DNA checking even if it was during modern times because that info can not be obtained from DNA testing


But anyways /support

[Purple998]

I like the idea of a comparator, and I like the adding part about having to chain together the results, I think this is a really good role. Only thing I might want to take a look at is the flavor text of checking DNA, but that is a minor thing, and I don't have any ideas at this time.

Oh right, I forgot about the fact this game is set a bit before the enlightenment boom, whereas DNA wasn't discovered until 1860. Maybe skin cells or hair strands or something like that? They did have microscopes back then. (Antonie van Leeuwenhoek, etc.)

I'd like to point out that it takes place before Cars and Gasoline but we have an Arson and Transporter, but I do not support the DNA checking even if it was during modern times because that info can not be obtained from DNA testing


But anyways /support

Why did you necro?

[Mystoc]

I like the idea of a comparator, and I like the adding part about having to chain together the results, I think this is a really good role. Only thing I might want to take a look at is the flavor text of checking DNA, but that is a minor thing, and I don't have any ideas at this time.

Oh right, I forgot about the fact this game is set a bit before the enlightenment boom, whereas DNA wasn't discovered until 1860. Maybe skin cells or hair strands or something like that? They did have microscopes back then. (Antonie van Leeuwenhoek, etc.)

I'd like to point out that it takes place before Cars and Gasoline but we have an Arson and Transporter, but I do not support the DNA checking even if it was during modern times because that info can not be obtained from DNA testing


But anyways /support

i get that i linked u this role because it similar to the one you just posted

but don't comment on old roles its called necrobumping and is against forum roles

the OP is not online to respond so you shouldn't bump the thread. you bumping a thread that won't get a response is bad don't do it

[Flare12332]

It's hard to find out who is who when you recieve the notification every 2 night and on of: same or different. The role is as good as it should be. Also will be helpful if you take a skin sample of someone, go to someone else and the results say same, then the 1st person dies to be revealed as Townie or Mafia. But then Framer ruins everything. Transported stuffs it up as well

it's not every 2 nights it's just not on N1

[orangeandblack5]

I like the idea of a comparator, and I like the adding part about having to chain together the results, I think this is a really good role. Only thing I might want to take a look at is the flavor text of checking DNA, but that is a minor thing, and I don't have any ideas at this time.

Oh right, I forgot about the fact this game is set a bit before the enlightenment boom, whereas DNA wasn't discovered until 1860. Maybe skin cells or hair strands or something like that? They did have microscopes back then. (Antonie van Leeuwenhoek, etc.)

I'd like to point out that it takes place before Cars and Gasoline but we have an Arson and Transporter, but I do not support the DNA checking even if it was during modern times because that info can not be obtained from DNA testing


But anyways /support

i get that i linked u this role because it similar to the one you just posted

but don't comment on old roles its called necrobumping and is against forum roles

the OP is not online to respond so you shouldn't bump the thread. you bumping a thread that won't get a response is bad don't do it

I could always go grab Elastoid lol

I won't though