The Scientist (Town Investigative) (Used in Testing Grounds)

[lionon]

The biggest is still calling it "scientist" with it racial undertone.

[Ozyrox]

Yeah cause people will start getting different skins (from the shop) and start being racist.

So idk. for now I think it should stay and later on come up with a name.

[Greenpandalover]

If you think that they are trying to be racist, you are an idiot!

I dont see how it could be racist atm judging how most of the skins are white, and only the yeti and the witch arent white, (Not counting fully clothed characters like the fire bug, horseman, or guardian since you cant tell).

[Exacerbated]

If you think that they are trying to be racist, you are an idiot!

I dont see how it could be racist atm judging how most of the skins are white, and only the yeti and the witch arent white, (Not counting fully clothed characters like the fire bug, horseman, or guardian since you cant tell).

Scientist is a perfect name. If you think that they are trying to be racist, you are an idiot! The original thing was DNA samples, but Excaberated changed it to skin samples to fit in with the TOS theme. This is a great role and I don't see why it wasn't added in already.

To be fair, there is a disturbing intellectual trend of scientific racism i.e. American Renaissance and Mankind Quarterly going on right now.

If it gets BMG into trouble by making this insinuation, I am all for changing the lore, or at the very least, rewording the lore so it doesn't have these racist implications.

However, in my defense, it definitely is not my intention to promote scientific racism and forensics can reasonably track and predict behavior through examining certain biological characteristics, although it definitely cannot tell the whole story.

My thought process was just simple Biology 101; look at cells of plants and animals and look at surface level differences. I highly doubt science was high-tech; sometimes, it was even wildly off base and just flat out inaccurate in the late Medieval Period.

The Scientist aims to make naturalistic observations at the population level, i.e. comparing two people, while being worse at finding information about one individual. It cannot determine moral compass, as Science cannot answer those types of questions which is why it is limited to comparing mechanical properties of alignment Supertype (Town, Mafia, Neutral).

I have been struggling with my health this week, but I will have time over the weekend to answer questions and concerns and update the OP.

Thank you for taking interest in my new role idea!

[Greenpandalover]

Congratz on the "Over 1000+ reads." :3

[Exacerbated]

Congratz on the "Over 1000+ reads." :3

To be fair, a lot of them were me revising the thread.

Hopefully this gains some traction.

[lionon]

Since the basic insinuation is that a sample of your skin ought to determine if you are good or evil this is nothing else than racism. That has nothing to do with ingame "skins". but skin samples. I'd highly reflect if you'd be in a position to call anyone idiot if you fail to see that.

Also if your look at cells determines if you are evil or not, similar issue. You're going a dangerous line runing an otherwise great idea by sticking to the bad idea calling it "scientist". (natural) Science cannot and will not ever be tell if a person is going to be good or bad by looking at any sample of him or her.

[Exacerbated]

Since the basic insinuation is that a sample of your skin ought to determine if you are good or evil this is nothing else than racism. That has nothing to do with ingame "skins". but skin samples. I'd highly reflect if you'd be in a position to call anyone idiot if you fail to see that.

Would hair work better? There's more phenotype variation with hair that doesn't necessarily collide with race.

[lionon]

Same issue, you are sticking to biological determinism, saying your bio preposition -whatever type of the body you want to reduce it to- determines if you are good or bad, with horrible implications. Let go of term "scientist" for this role.

[Exacerbated]

Same issue, you are sticking to biological determinism, saying your bio preposition -whatever type of the body you want to reduce it to- determines if you are good or bad, with horrible implications. Let go of term "scientist" for this role.

I will very strongly consider it. Now that I think about it, it would be difficult to frame this or engineer the wording in a way that absolves it from hints of scientific racism and crude biological determinism.

The lore was the weakest part of my design, anyways.

EDIT:

I have an idea: Astrologist.

-in vogue in Late Medieval Period
-No implications of scientific racism

Something like, "Their astrological signs are compatible" or "Their astrological signs are incompatible".

[ciary]

I only read this now but ...
I LOVE IT!!!
when will this be included? please? soon? I want this role ^_^
it's original, not OP or UP, doesn't require outrages changes ...
I just love it
one thing I would like to change though:
neutral -> other type of neutral = different
(like SK and arsonist)
but maybe that's just me

[lionon]

Astrologer is better than scientist, but really astrology?

As been suggested I like the ideas that go to psychology or sociology. That is a valid connection to behaviour.

How about "Profiler"?

[Jtgop]

Astrologer is better than scientist, but really astrology?

As been suggested I like the ideas that go to psychology or sociology. That is a valid connection to behaviour.

How about "Profiler"?

I like astrologer, what is wrong with it? For one thing, it is actually period, from what I hear any people that tried to work with the mind at that time either tried to use quack stuff like 'sexual healing', or looked you in a mad house to hide you away from the rest of society.

[NekoPotato]

Another suggestion would be a Forensic, getting fingerprint samples and comparing them, so it wouldn't count as 'racist' (even though it's not, really).

[VucubCaquix]

I think that some sort of religious figure would work better for this setting. Maybe some sort of reverend or minister who can get confessions from people to determine what kind of person they are. Scientists and Psychologists don't really fit in with the 17th century Puritan Massachusetts theme. And I believe astrology was hated fiercely by the puritans (not sure where I read that though).

[lionon]

reverend would be nice.

[Jtgop]

I think that some sort of religious figure would work better for this setting. Maybe some sort of reverend or minister who can get confessions from people to determine what kind of person they are. Scientists and Psychologists don't really fit in with the 17th century Puritan Massachusetts theme. And I believe astrology was hated fiercely by the puritans (not sure where I read that though).

A quick Google search confirms that Puritans did not like astrology, however the same source says that they definitely wouldn't be that found of people talking to the dead, or bringing them back either. I personally don't think a religious figure would be a good fit here, especially since any priest worthy of the name would not share things spoken in confession. Also, and mods, feel free to erase this if you think it will start something, I think if you are going to have a religious figure in an investigative role, you are going to need a very good reason.

[Ozyrox]

I think that some sort of religious figure would work better for this setting. Maybe some sort of reverend or minister who can get confessions from people to determine what kind of person they are. Scientists and Psychologists don't really fit in with the 17th century Puritan Massachusetts theme. And I believe astrology was hated fiercely by the puritans (not sure where I read that though).

A quick Google search confirms that Puritans did not like astrology, however the same source says that they definitely wouldn't be that found of people talking to the dead, or bringing them back either. I personally don't think a religious figure would be a good fit here, especially since any priest worthy of the name would not share things spoken in confession. Also, and mods, feel free to erase this if you think it will start something, I think if you are going to have a religious figure in an investigative role, you are going to need a very good reason.

Uh guys religious things wont work in Town Of Salem for very good reasons. I've made role suggestions of God and Jesus but that's not going to be a role is it? The main thing is is that religious stuff isn't really accepted in the game because not everyone shares the same religion. If you get what I mean.

[lionon]

I'd concentrate on any profession that would get hints what social circle someone deals with.

[Origamiss]

This is probably the coolest role idea i have ever seen! I Really hope they make this a real thing!

[metisou]

You could call it the Town Crier, basically they observe the social interactions of the people of the town while announcing who among who associates with that particular person. Make it a day ability instead of a night ability.
Target 5 during D1 at night they can't make any assumptions yet as they haven't seen their interactions with 6 yet. D2 you target 6, during the night you can make the assumption that 5 and 6 share the same or have different circles. The hardest part would be surviving 3 days to get that first result down in your will. This would mean the witch cannot control the outcome and the transporter cannot change your target, but a disguiser, janitor, framer and blackmailer can make it difficult to verify your results as they work with deception which will likely confuse the Town Crier.

If it's going to take 3 days to get 1 result down in your will, you might likely die night 3 and only help the town know that 2 people are the same. If the town crier lives it can be hugely beneficial, but if they are blackmailed and cleaned or even replaced by disguiser, well the mafia is his biggest threat. I don't think this is something that should be controlled via transport/witch. But Escort or Consort could distract the Town Crier making it difficult to get results during the night. The Transport could potentially be more useful in conjunction with Town Crier. This can foster communication in an otherwise silent game, as I've had many games where people were not talkative.

Well, that's only my suggestion.

[PandACT]

Sounds good! it sounds more like a scientist than you'd think, too. The equal to/ opposite is exactly like the "spin" test!! Eitehr way, i think it should be named "forensist/forensic analysist" they solve crimes with SCIENCE!!

Another suggestion would be a Forensic, getting fingerprint samples and comparing them, so it wouldn't count as 'racist' (even though it's not, really).

after reading the thread, i found someone agreed with me.

[TheDeltax]

I love the role idea but i think it needs a nerf. In the right hands (so in ranked games mostly) this role might just be the strongest investigative role in the game. Why?
Well because you can just sample a proven townie (Especially d1 revealed mayor)and then you can know if your target is or is not a townie, without any doubt. Then you can sample again that target (or one of the other target you sampled, because now they are also confirmed townie) and repeat the process. So this role might be basically a more complete sheriff,since it can also check gf/arso/neutral evil roles.
I hope you understood what I mean,i'm sorry if something is unclear, english is not my first language

[lionon]

Lets call this role "sherrif" and replace it whatever uselessness the current sherrif is.

[Jtgop]

I love the role idea but i think it needs a nerf. In the right hands (so in ranked games mostly) this role might just be the strongest investigative role in the game. Why?
Well because you can just sample a proven townie (Especially d1 revealed mayor)and then you can know if your target is or is not a townie, without any doubt. Then you can sample again that target (or one of the other target you sampled, because now they are also confirmed townie) and repeat the process. So this role might be basically a more complete sheriff,since it can also check gf/arso/neutral evil roles.
I hope you understood what I mean,i'm sorry if something is unclear, english is not my first language

It would still take twice as long to check people, and a smart framer would be able to easily counter this.