Let's talk about the Report Players board!

What should we do about the Report Players board?

Solution 1
12
44%
Solution 2
8
30%
Other
7
26%
 
Total votes : 27

Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby Arckas » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:18 pm

My personal view on this- if it helps the game keep it in. While player reports has been prone to much, much, abuse, its still benefits the game. After trials is launched, I want to see what the activity of the board is going to be like. If their is no activity or the people in charge of banning (administrators) is what the determining faction should be if the board is or isn't used.

    Keep in mind, if the board will have no quality activity or majority of the admins decide not to use it and prefer the system, their is no point to keeping the board literally.


Its a headache as of late and it would make our jobs easier if it wasn't their. That doesn't mean it still won't be useful to the game. I'm sure many people would like to still report their games on the forums and the judges themselves can be able to utilize the board as properly as it is used. To also add-on why it shouldn't be deleted entirely is because user feedback such as witnesses would be helpful and have been helpful in the past.

I remember post rule 21 that their was a completely relevant, completely fine and pure post from a user that was deleted under rule 21. At that point I noticed first hand that it affects people who were completely good posters and bad posters alike, and good posters usually like to follow the rules so the bad users shone. If we were to create a subjective opinion on what is okay to post and what is not okay to post and enforce that rule, it would be fine.


Now to a question for those who post on reports-
Would you be willing to listen to guidelines and follow them/will you think they will work for you?
Should you cross one of these guidelines, your post or a portion of your post will be deleted.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby NFaker » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:44 pm

Arckas wrote:Would you be willing to listen to guidelines and follow them/will you think they will work for you?
Should you cross one of these guidelines, your post or a portion of your post will be deleted.
Delete away, though do note me with the reason if possible so I don't keep making posts that will just be deleted.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby iggyvolz » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:47 pm

Arckas wrote:Would you be willing to listen to guidelines and follow them/will you think they will work for you?
Should you cross one of these guidelines, your post or a portion of your post will be deleted.


Don't see why not. If you tell us what we can or can't post, then if people aren't willing to listen then they just can't post there.

And it depends what the guidelines are - if it's something like "each post must be accompanied by a 27-page essay explaining the origin of each word of your post" I'm not posting there :P
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby dzzzy7 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:32 pm

Arckas wrote:Now to a question for those who post on reports-
Would you be willing to listen to guidelines and follow them/will you think they will work for you?
Should you cross one of these guidelines, your post or a portion of your post will be deleted.

I would gladly accept both explanation or not. I do hope there will be some leniency when the OP asks "is this reportable" because that happens a lot and does lead to a bit of digression.

I also wanted to make a comment regarding restricting players ability to post on the report players board. I am against any restrictions that would make the board accessible to only trusted users or trial judges because a lot of reports do not come from them alone and if they did they would probably be overly selective (maybe even biased for/against a certain group). For some people the reports board is their first time posting on the forums at all (I think that was pretty much my case, and I am still not a trusted user yet).

I think the best way to go is to raise the standards of the board, not to restrict who can and cannot post.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby Arckas » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:21 am

dzzzy7 wrote:I think the best way to go is to raise the standards of the board, not to restrict who can and cannot post.

That is a fantastic way to put it, dzzzy.

Its easier said then done, though doable and I like it.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby zerofsky » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:13 am

I feel like it would just take too long for a trail system...
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby NFaker » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:47 am

zerofsky wrote:I feel like it would just take too long for a trail system...
It has been in the works for quite a while and is going to be out in a few weeks time.(I think an admin said)
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Yo fuck this sheet, amirite

Postby K1llthestory » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:45 pm

Make reports staff only.

Staff already knows what to do, they don't need opinions. It's already set in stone, so there's no other reason for people to be posting other than post count.

This disregards witnesses or the person defending themselves.
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Re: Yo fuck this sheet, amirite

Postby Marduk1184 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:16 pm

K1llthestory wrote:Staff already knows what to do, they don't need opinions.

or such suggestions.
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Re: Yo fuck this sheet, amirite

Postby K1llthestory » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:17 pm

Marduk1184 wrote:
K1llthestory wrote:Staff already knows what to do, they don't need opinions.

or such suggestions.

Weren't you that one troll?

Brb lemme check your posts.

EDIT: Yeah you were. Time to report ur post bud,
Last edited by K1llthestory on Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yo fuck this sheet, amirite

Postby RhazhBash » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:17 pm

Really there's only 4 people that need to be commenting on reports.

Staff
Person being reported
OP
Witnesses/People directly involved with the report.

That was the rule back on another forum I used to be on, and it worked out perfectly. All they need to do is start cracking down on pointless responses/make that rule. Making only staff able to see reports would just make 2 of those people unable to comment on reports when they need to.
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Re: Yo fuck this sheet, amirite

Postby K1llthestory » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:18 pm

RhazhBash wrote:Really there's only 4 people that need to be commenting on reports.

Staff
Person being reported
OP
Witnesses/People directly involved with the report.

That was the rule back on another forum I used to be on, and it worked out perfectly. All they need to do is start cracking down on pointless responses/make that rule. Making only staff able to see reports would just make 2 of those people unable to comment on reports when they need to.

Yeah, on another forum this is exactly the same too.

It really does work out
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby Nellyfox » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:19 pm

Merged your thread with mine, K1ll.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby K1llthestory » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:19 pm

Nellyfox wrote:Merged your thread with mine, K1ll.

Oh um?

I'm talking short term before trials come out. Then, it should be gotten rid of
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Re: Yo fuck this sheet, amirite

Postby dzzzy7 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:59 am

RhazhBash wrote:Really there's only 4 people that need to be commenting on reports.

Staff
Person being reported
OP
Witnesses/People directly involved with the report.

That was the rule back on another forum I used to be on, and it worked out perfectly. All they need to do is start cracking down on pointless responses/make that rule. Making only staff able to see reports would just make 2 of those people unable to comment on reports when they need to.

I agree with this and with what K1ll wrote. I do post on the report players board, usually to report someone, and occasionally to let someone know they are missing the end lobby screen.

The report players board has gotten pretty bad. I now see a lot of one-upmanship, flaming, and vendettas on the board between forumers. Lots of forumers chime in with their opinions, but they don't even matter. The only opinions that matter on that board are those of the mods.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby Mroz4k » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:10 pm

I´d would like to point out why I highly dissagree with the recent opinions:

I was a part of another big Forums in the past, and the reports there were handled by the Moderators and Moderators only.
As the game itself was built on popularity of two big YouTubers, whose general fanbase was on average 12 years olds, there were on usual around 30 reports per day. Thing with that was, that Moderators were unable to keep up with the amount of reports that popped up.

So I, as a regular user who was Moderator for an allied server, made a deal with the Moderation team. Since my server was very smallish and I was easily able to handle my forums on my own, I would venture to theirs and I´d post the summaries for Player Reports in comments for their reports. I did it in mutual respect to them, being the Staff, and it helped improve the efficiency of reports by a huge amount, because soon after, other people with intentions to show they are capable at these things (they used to have annual Moderator application elections) started posting on those as well, bringing in a huge amount of additional, re-structurized information.

Now I am not saying the same is happening here - the Staff here is far more competent then the previous server ever was at the time, but that doesnt neccesarily mean one thing:
I may have long experience reviewing reports, but naturally Mods will have better experience in this field then I do, because they actually handle them, day-to-day. But nobody is perfect and everyone can make a mistake. And mistakes like that do happen... in all the time I´ve been around Player Reports I remember at least a 10 times reviewing closed Reports and reporting them via the Report function because I noticed something didnt add up - and some of those reports actually got re-opened, too. Now I am not trying to blame Staff for not paying attention, they do... but nobody can be 100% of times correct. Some of those reports were not re-opened because I was too eager and missed another point that actually put all of the report to sense, so I ended up being wrong myself...

However, if there is a good enough comment that highlights all the important points in the Report, a mistake is much less likely to happen.

The server I talked about didnt end up keeping that system - they ran into similar problem, with people mini-modding all the time...

However, before events that followed (refer to my story on the Like-dislike system I talked about a week ago) I was actually able to suggest a different system - the two person system.

Two person system
Biggest issue with that server used to be that their punishment system was unfair. They didnt put any effort into investigating the reports. Because of that, there was incredible amount of people unfairly punished.
I would hate for this to happen here - and its already happening as we speak. Look at the Maddona incident - we all know at this point that Maddona set up most of the people who ended up getting reported, by aggravating them purposedly, then reporting them on Forums with skillfully removing all kind of evidence of Maddona´s involvement.

We can suspect this because majority of people who ended up being punished by Maddona came back and their stories all say the same thing.

A User not long ago approached me in PM, I will keep their identity hidden, but this is what they shared with me, after spending a number of time investigating the withnesses and all Maddona´s reports.
...I think you will agree with me if I wrote that Madonna is a deeply subversive troll. I will not and cannot defend anyone in the reports she has made but I would not be surprised if she purposefully baited most of them...
...She loves to attack other players very crudely and her play is borderline gamethrowing (like Bishop Edwards if you ever had the misfortune of playing with him). I find it incredibly hypocritical that she reports people for using the same language she often does...
...Her entire persona is a giant trap btw. Her in-game names often reflect this. She brings up controversial and inflammatory topics intentionally to troll other players in-game (like ranting on the stand she was being lynched for being transgender instead of simply not giving her role). I think she reports so many people because it lets her troll under the guise of not being a troll, but that trick is wearing itself out...

Those are just some of the points that were given to me, and I have to agree with them to the most point. Thing is, due to the system´s hole in it, Maddona was able to operate as a "Player Reporter" for too long.

The two person system basically means that at least two people who know what they are doing review a report. Now it would be inconsiderable to ask Moderators to do this, be it two Moderators who scan a report before Shapesifter decides on it. Hence, having regular users do this can be of great benefit. If a regular person first notices something unusual, they can bring attention to this fact and Moderator will have less time on their hands, properly scanning the Report on their own.
This also brings another good point - I mean, being succesful at noticing these things shows that a certain player has a "Moderator potential" - naturally, there is more to it, but still, this is something that definitedly should be seen as a good plus.

So, having proffesional comments on Player Reports can have a great benefit. It doesnt really matter if they were added by Moderators or regular users, I mean, for as long as they are of use, why should people be restricted from making them? Sounds contraproductive to me...

Thats all that I have to say on this subject. If you have not changed your mind at this point, I dont think I can convince you, but I did my best.

________
@KIllstory - now I dont consider your input on this matter to be of any worth at all.
The reason for that is that you have been telling people continuously over and over again to go play MafiaScum instead, because this game is "shit".

Yet, you are still here.
So, one would be allowed to consider whether maybe you are not saying these things on purpose to damage this community. I mean, whats your motivation to try and suggest "improvements" if you are so determined this game is such "shit" and people who still play it are clearly stupid?
If you like MafiaScum more, wouldnt you want MafiaScum to be better then Town of Salem?

Just trying to find logic here.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby dzzzy7 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:27 pm

Mroz4k wrote:The two person system basically means that at least two people who know what they are doing review a report. Now it would be inconsiderable to ask Moderators to do this, be it two Moderators who scan a report before Shapesifter decides on it. Hence, having regular users do this can be of great benefit. If a regular person first notices something unusual, they can bring attention to this fact and Moderator will have less time on their hands, properly scanning the Report on their own.
This also brings another good point - I mean, being succesful at noticing these things shows that a certain player has a "Moderator potential" - naturally, there is more to it, but still, this is something that definitedly should be seen as a good plus.

So, having proffesional comments on Player Reports can have a great benefit. It doesnt really matter if they were added by Moderators or regular users, I mean, for as long as they are of use, why should people be restricted from making them? Sounds contraproductive to me...

Thats all that I have to say on this subject. If you have not changed your mind at this point, I dont think I can convince you, but I did my best.

Points well made. I would like the moderators' opinion on this section. Having a certain group of users empowered to review reports and make recommendations would cut down on the workload for the other mods.

My only problem with this is that an empowered user . . . sounds like a mod to me. Maybe we should just empower two additional mods to work on report players board only? They can read reports and Shapeshifter can review the results. Letting everyone "act as a mod" has been the problem on the board so far. This would restrict that role to two people.

Basically everyone should be able to make reports, but we don't need everyone commenting on each report.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:38 pm

Nellyfox wrote:I've recently asked about warnings/bans contributing to Trusted User status...I need to find that chat again and see what TurdPile responded. Pretty sure a ban boots you while a warning doesn't ? Don't recall.

Both, if I recall, nelly.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby K1llthestory » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:40 pm

Naru2008 wrote:
Nellyfox wrote:I've recently asked about warnings/bans contributing to Trusted User status...I need to find that chat again and see what TurdPile responded. Pretty sure a ban boots you while a warning doesn't ? Don't recall.

Both, if I recall, nelly.

Warning doesn't.

I would know.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:00 pm

K1llthestory wrote:
Naru2008 wrote:
Nellyfox wrote:I've recently asked about warnings/bans contributing to Trusted User status...I need to find that chat again and see what TurdPile responded. Pretty sure a ban boots you while a warning doesn't ? Don't recall.

Both, if I recall, nelly.

Warning doesn't.

I would know.

Or you would think. We might have removed it from you and then gave it back to you without you knowing. You never know, K1ll.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby K1llthestory » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:08 pm

Naru2008 wrote:
K1llthestory wrote:
Naru2008 wrote:Both, if I recall, nelly.

Warning doesn't.

I would know.

Or you would think. We might have removed it from you and then gave it back to you without you knowing. You never know, K1ll.

Oh
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:16 pm

K1llthestory wrote:
Naru2008 wrote:
K1llthestory wrote:Warning doesn't.

I would know.

Or you would think. We might have removed it from you and then gave it back to you without you knowing. You never know, K1ll.

Oh

We haven't. :lol: 'Twas a joke. :p
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby K1llthestory » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:17 pm

Naru2008 wrote:
K1llthestory wrote:
Naru2008 wrote:Or you would think. We might have removed it from you and then gave it back to you without you knowing. You never know, K1ll.

Oh

We haven't. :lol: 'Twas a joke. :p

Oh
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby Madonna » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:07 am

Spoiler:
Mroz4k wrote:I´d would like to point out why I highly dissagree with the recent opinions:

I was a part of another big Forums in the past, and the reports there were handled by the Moderators and Moderators only.
As the game itself was built on popularity of two big YouTubers, whose general fanbase was on average 12 years olds, there were on usual around 30 reports per day. Thing with that was, that Moderators were unable to keep up with the amount of reports that popped up.

So I, as a regular user who was Moderator for an allied server, made a deal with the Moderation team. Since my server was very smallish and I was easily able to handle my forums on my own, I would venture to theirs and I´d post the summaries for Player Reports in comments for their reports. I did it in mutual respect to them, being the Staff, and it helped improve the efficiency of reports by a huge amount, because soon after, other people with intentions to show they are capable at these things (they used to have annual Moderator application elections) started posting on those as well, bringing in a huge amount of additional, re-structurized information.

Now I am not saying the same is happening here - the Staff here is far more competent then the previous server ever was at the time, but that doesnt neccesarily mean one thing:
I may have long experience reviewing reports, but naturally Mods will have better experience in this field then I do, because they actually handle them, day-to-day. But nobody is perfect and everyone can make a mistake. And mistakes like that do happen... in all the time I´ve been around Player Reports I remember at least a 10 times reviewing closed Reports and reporting them via the Report function because I noticed something didnt add up - and some of those reports actually got re-opened, too. Now I am not trying to blame Staff for not paying attention, they do... but nobody can be 100% of times correct. Some of those reports were not re-opened because I was too eager and missed another point that actually put all of the report to sense, so I ended up being wrong myself...

However, if there is a good enough comment that highlights all the important points in the Report, a mistake is much less likely to happen.

The server I talked about didnt end up keeping that system - they ran into similar problem, with people mini-modding all the time...

However, before events that followed (refer to my story on the Like-dislike system I talked about a week ago) I was actually able to suggest a different system - the two person system.

Two person system
Biggest issue with that server used to be that their punishment system was unfair. They didnt put any effort into investigating the reports. Because of that, there was incredible amount of people unfairly punished.
I would hate for this to happen here - and its already happening as we speak. Look at the Maddona incident - we all know at this point that Maddona set up most of the people who ended up getting reported, by aggravating them purposedly, then reporting them on Forums with skillfully removing all kind of evidence of Maddona´s involvement.

We can suspect this because majority of people who ended up being punished by Maddona came back and their stories all say the same thing.

A User not long ago approached me in PM, I will keep their identity hidden, but this is what they shared with me, after spending a number of time investigating the withnesses and all Maddona´s reports.
...I think you will agree with me if I wrote that Madonna is a deeply subversive troll. I will not and cannot defend anyone in the reports she has made but I would not be surprised if she purposefully baited most of them...
...She loves to attack other players very crudely and her play is borderline gamethrowing (like Bishop Edwards if you ever had the misfortune of playing with him). I find it incredibly hypocritical that she reports people for using the same language she often does...
...Her entire persona is a giant trap btw. Her in-game names often reflect this. She brings up controversial and inflammatory topics intentionally to troll other players in-game (like ranting on the stand she was being lynched for being transgender instead of simply not giving her role). I think she reports so many people because it lets her troll under the guise of not being a troll, but that trick is wearing itself out...

Those are just some of the points that were given to me, and I have to agree with them to the most point. Thing is, due to the system´s hole in it, Maddona was able to operate as a "Player Reporter" for too long.

The two person system basically means that at least two people who know what they are doing review a report. Now it would be inconsiderable to ask Moderators to do this, be it two Moderators who scan a report before Shapesifter decides on it. Hence, having regular users do this can be of great benefit. If a regular person first notices something unusual, they can bring attention to this fact and Moderator will have less time on their hands, properly scanning the Report on their own.
This also brings another good point - I mean, being succesful at noticing these things shows that a certain player has a "Moderator potential" - naturally, there is more to it, but still, this is something that definitedly should be seen as a good plus.

So, having proffesional comments on Player Reports can have a great benefit. It doesnt really matter if they were added by Moderators or regular users, I mean, for as long as they are of use, why should people be restricted from making them? Sounds contraproductive to me...

Thats all that I have to say on this subject. If you have not changed your mind at this point, I dont think I can convince you, but I did my best.

________
@KIllstory - now I dont consider your input on this matter to be of any worth at all.
The reason for that is that you have been telling people continuously over and over again to go play MafiaScum instead, because this game is "shit".

Yet, you are still here.
So, one would be allowed to consider whether maybe you are not saying these things on purpose to damage this community. I mean, whats your motivation to try and suggest "improvements" if you are so determined this game is such "shit" and people who still play it are clearly stupid?
If you like MafiaScum more, wouldnt you want MafiaScum to be better then Town of Salem?

Just trying to find logic here.


Let me preface by saying i am not trying to go off-topic. but this comment is both incorrect and attempting to flame me.
you do not have evidence of your claim that i have baited anyone or that i have used my gender as a "trap". and even if you did, it would not excuse slurs targeting marginalized groups, which is the majority of reports i make.

now i have tried to reduce my reports to multiple infringements in the same game or something really bad. but the criteria here are vague. if you wish to reduce the number of reports, please edit the criteria. finally, Mroz you are not a moderator and you should not speak as if you were one.

RhazhBash wrote:Really there's only 4 people that need to be commenting on reports.

Staff
Person being reported
OP
Witnesses/People directly involved with the report.

That was the rule back on another forum I used to be on, and it worked out perfectly. All they need to do is start cracking down on pointless responses/make that rule. Making only staff able to see reports would just make 2 of those people unable to comment on reports when they need to.


i agree with this because there have been lots of off-topic comments made, especially against me by people who think i'm being too much of a rules snob. one's opinion of the rules shouldn't be welcome in the report players section but perhaps another section, like suggestions.
if you need to appoint a couple more forum moderators, that is what you should do because if you eliminate or make inaccessible the forum report system, you will have players who are unable to defend themselves.
i also don't think the trial system is a good idea, unless you have a chance to come here to defend yourself (albeit with a reasoned argument).
Last edited by enderitem on Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do not double post but instead, use the edit function. Posts have been merged. Also please spoiler or crop huge quotes as they clutter the page. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Let's talk about the Report Players board!

Postby K1llthestory » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:14 am

Mroz4k wrote:@KIllstory - now I dont consider your input on this matter to be of any worth at all.
The reason for that is that you have been telling people continuously over and over again to go play MafiaScum instead, because this game is "shit".

Yet, you are still here.
So, one would be allowed to consider whether maybe you are not saying these things on purpose to damage this community. I mean, whats your motivation to try and suggest "improvements" if you are so determined this game is such "shit" and people who still play it are clearly stupid?
If you like MafiaScum more, wouldnt you want MafiaScum to be better then Town of Salem?

Just trying to find logic here.

Lol. Because I'm not a suck up like a certain someone.

ToS is completely broken, even the suck ups have to admit that. The entire concept of mafia is ruined in that game. If you can't admit that, you have no idea what the concept of mafia is.

I also tell people to play FM. FM and MS are the only forums that require skill and are somewhat balanced.
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