A gay boy's guide to fixing your rolelist

[Schultz128]

General:

Making this as a FM Mod's perspective on the TG rolelist and how I recommend to fix any issues I have seen.

The current format is just ass to read. That's probably biased coming from FM, but it would be helpful if someone did the time to make versions of the rolecards in a similar manner to the way we format them at the FM boards just so it's easier for us FM players to get into this.

I might repeat the same comment with some roles. This is intentional and not a typo.

I'm not reviewing any roles that are retired.

TLDR:

-Mafia Support is the best alignment in terms of role quality.
-Neutral Killing is the worst alignment in terms of role quality.
-The only Neutral Killing I support is Serial Killer. I just shit on every other NK.
-Fuck Amnesiac, replace it with Double.

Town


Spoiler: Power

• Mayor
  
  • Role is fine how it is. Could be broken with good players, but other than that it's fine. I dislike Town Power as an alignment but that's something different.

• Jailor
  
  • Role is fine how it is. Could be broken with good players, but other than that it's fine. I dislike Town Power as an alignment but that's something different.

• Retributionist
  
  • This role is just honestly busted. The only way I could think to balance it would to make it so they could only revive a player for the next day and night just so they could perform their action again.

Protective

• Doctor
  
  • Role is fine how it is. A bit iffy on it being informed of their target being attacked, but that's just me.

• Bodyguard
  
  • Make it unable to be healed. This leads to a combos that can only be broken by a Witch or a Consort.

• Ghost
  
  • Pretty solid.

Investigative

• Sheriff
  
  • Role is fine how it is. Only thing I dislike about Sheriff isn't even anything to do with the role, it's just the potential existence of Framer and Disguiser.

• Investigator
  
  • On the weaker side of things, but that's actually fine in the case of roles that can perform process of elimination. You need a variety of power to maintain game design balance.

• Interviewer
  
  • A mix between Investigator and Scientist. Not a fan at all, I don't think this is needed. Roles shouldn't just be mashes of two existing roles, as that just doubles up on abilities or turns into a Jack of All Trades situation. Rework or removal should be performed.

• Scientist
  
  • One of the strongest Investigative roles simply because it can detect Neutrals, albeit at a slower pace. Fine how it is. Strive to be like this role, gentlemen.

• Tracker
  
  • On the weaker side of things, but that's actually fine in the case of roles that can perform process of elimination. You need a variety of power to maintain game design balance.

Killing

• Vigilante
  
  • In an ideal situation, this role is better off being 2-shot since a 3-shot vigilante is completely abusable by a good player. However, the role fits the community, so to speak, and in this community it's fine at 3-shot.

• Veteran
  
  • It's fine I guess. I prefer the variant of it being infinite shot but not being able to go on alert two nights in a row, but that's just me.

• Firebrand
  
  • This role only exists to provide a barely usable claim for Arsonist. It's just a bad role in all honesty.

Support

• Lookout
  
  • Absolutely broken. Change its alignment back to Investigative and change its ability to only detect how many players visit their target rather than their identities.

• Medium
  
  • It's trash. Only setup it has any use in is a setup without last wills. If a setup has last wills, then this role is next to useless.

• Rain Dancer
  
  • Still absurdly strong, but not nearly as strong as its original version. Limit it to 2 charges and put it in Town Power.

• Miller
  
  • Actually busted during mass-claims and in tangent with Trackers or Lookouts.

• Oracle
  
  • Seems fine, needs some testing though.

• Escort
  
  • Escort is just negative utility and is only good for helping find the Consort. More likely than not you'll just be roleblocking Town unless you're a smart player, but even a smart player can't do much if the rest of the players are townies that are so bad they look like scum. Best thing to do as Escort is to just not visit.

• Transporter
  
  • This role is one of the strongest in the game. Make it so it can't target the same players two nights in a row. I would even go as far as to make this a Protective role.

• Incarcerator
  
  • It's just a bad role honestly. It'll be negative utility, considering there are more Town roles with 4th priority (a majority of those being Investigative roles) than there are scum roles. Remove it.

Mafia


Spoiler: Head

• Godfather
  
  • If your rolelist can roll this, it must always be public or else the game is just bastard.

• Caporegime
  
  • Great role, wish it would take the place of Godfather in the actual ToS client.

Support

• Consigilere
  
  • Solid role.

• Consort
  
  • Solid role.

• Nightmarer
  
  • Solid role, although limiting charges isn't off the table.

• Musician
  
  • Too fucking strong to be 3-shots. Rework the role entirely. Make it so their ability prevents a player from receiving any night feedback for that night. This ability is infinite, but cannot target the same person two nights in a row.

• Mafioso
  
  • Solid role.

• Watcher
  
  • Solid role.

• Malpracticioner
  
  • Too swingy in my opinion. I never was a fan of this role and I still can't think of a way to fix it.

• Hustler
  
  • It's fine balance wise but it has next to no utility in all honesty.

Deception

• Janitor
  
  • Solid role.

• Framer
  
  • Terrible role design. You shouldn't design a role specifically to counter one or two other roles. Not to mention this role is bastard. Delete it.

• Forger
  
  • Next to useless honestly.

• Disguiser
  
  • Disguiser is just a bad concept to be honest.

• Prankster
  
  • Great role, glad FM made it and not someone else. I would probably limit its charges.

Neutral


Spoiler: Killing

• Serial Killer
  
  • This is the fucking peak of all NK roles. You honestly don't need anything else, you just need this. No gimmicks, no convoluted crap, nothing over the top, just a 1-man Mafia faction with detection and night immunity.

• Arsonist
  
  • This is what you run if you really hate a certain player. The role is just a SK with an awful gimmick that more often than not does not pay out. This is an example of a gimmick NK. Don't bother with it.

• Werewolf
  
  • This is what you run if you really hate balance, in terms of the chances of other factions winning and the chance of the Werewolf winning. The main issue with this role is that it limits the player's choices and play within the game. This is an example of an over the top NK. Don't bother with it.

• Butcher
  
  • This is what you run if you think Parallax is a God among men. This is an example of a convoluted NK, with an interesting concept but frankly will be better off as a normal SK more often than not. Don't bother with it.

• Electrician
  
  • Such an awful role. More gimmick than actual killing ability. It may be able to get you some funny kills, sure, but you'll be stretched to actually win with this role.

• Slaughterer
  
  • Complex gimmicks with no major advantage over SK.

Evil

• Witch
  
  • The best NE role. Make it so they can win after death to allow for more daring and risky plays.

• Warlock
  
  • I can't even review this role because there's so much info missing. How long does this effect last for? Can the Warlock do this multiple times? Can they target themselves?

• Stalker
  
  • The effect needs to limited to that night. I would also go as far as to say they would need to choose between what type of abilities cannot target their target, while allowing Transports and Killing abilities to also be effected by this.

• Gossiper
  
  • I actually quite like this role. Would I choose it over Witch? No.

Benign

• Survivor
  
  • Boring but balanced.

• Amnesiac
  
  • God please just replace this with Double already. For those unaware, a Double is a NB role that has a 1-shot night immunity piercing attack that will clean their target and give the role and alignment to the Double. This is a much more involved Amnesiac that can also work well to substitute for a setup with a lower amount of Neutrals or a lack of a NK. The whole argument against Double is that it just boots a player out of the game, but literally any killing role does that. Double makes plays, Amnesiac claims the day before they choose a Town role.

• Jester
  
  • Bring back the old Jester.

• Executioner
  
  • Bring back the old Executioner.

[Villagerlover]

Seems pretty solid.
I very much agree that the Serial Killer is honestly the only good NK role, since it's the only one with consistency.

Now, while I agree that some of the roles are "trash", I wouldn't go as far as to say some of them should be removed. For instance, I don't believe the Double would be a good "benign" role since benign has been known to keep the attribute of being unable to kill others. But that's just my opinion.


Overall though, good, and blunt presentation.

/support

[Schultz128]

Updated to account for Miller, Oracle, and Hustler.

Removed any roles that are now retired.

[BasicFourLife]

Seems like this is back up again.

A few additional notes that I didn't include last time:
- Rain Dancer already has 2 charges only.
- I'm not sure on Miller, but is has potential. It needs some changes and more testing to see how it plays out.
- Your Musician rework makes it a weaker Prankster/Hypnotist/Drug Dealer, because that role can already remove all feedback from a target by making them think they "Slept Peacefully," and can give any other feedback in the entire game.

[pierrew]

Welcome Back sorry about last time