Town of Salem Game Forums

I have debated this internally quite a bit and came to the conclusion that we need some sort of formal final verdict for each of the roles that we test. That way, if the devs are ever interested in implementing our roles and concepts (assuming that they don't release a completely new game and abandon ToS), they can easily see which ones the community supports. I plan on running this a little differently from how the old TG ran things, which can be seen here. Since we don't have official balancers, I plan on conducting a monthly poll here to determine whether or not each role cleared testing.

You may vote yes, no, more edits, or more testing for each role. Here is an explanation of each vote:

Yes: The role is balanced and should be added to the game. Roles in this category will not be tested anymore.

No: The role is fundamentally unbalanced and should not be added to the game, even with edits. Roles in this category will not be tested anymore.

More Edits: The role is currently unbalanced but can be fixed with certain changes. Roles in this category will be tested again once suitable modifications are made. Roles being tested for the first time have priority over these roles in testing.

More Testing: The role has not been tested sufficiently. Roles in this category will continue to be tested, but roles being tested for the first time will have priority. Please only choose this option if no conclusions whatsoever can be made about the role based on testing.

All roles will be moved into the more testing category unless a simple majority of voters choose a different option. For example, if 3 people vote yes, 2 people vote no, and 2 people vote more testing, the role will continue being tested because a strong conclusion wasn't reached about the role.

We will now use an approval voting system, meaning that you may vote for as many of the options as you would like for each role.

This poll will be open for the cycle following the one when the role was tested. For example, a role that is approved in May and tested in June will be voted on in July. The roles that were tested in February will be voted on until the March testing cycle ends and each role has at least five votes. When choosing which way to vote, please consider your opinion on the role prior to the tests, your experience testing the role, and this thread.

To vote, please use the following format:

/vote [decision] [role/concept name] [author]

You may want to take back a vote that you previously sent. To do so, please use the following format:

/unvote [decision] [role/concept name] [author]

Reasoning is not required to vote, but it is highly encouraged. When changing votes, please unvote and vote for your new choice. If you wish to vote anonymously, please pm alex1234321.

Current Results:
Blacksmith by alex1234321 1 1 0 6
Duelist by sunbird1002 2 0 2 4
Associate by superdog551 1 2 1 4
Confounder by Ezradekezra 0 1 6 3


Here are my votes:
/vote yes Framer Buff Capwarrior2 Wasn't really tested, but it rolled and the player did not use the ability, which suggests it isn't super powerful. Still an important buff.
/vote yes Ambusher Rework Paradox12 Also wasn't really tested, but it rolled and the player never used cautious, which suggests that it is more useful early on and not overpowered.
/vote yes Consigliere Buff OreCreeper Helped the player sort out claims during a massclaim while showing that there was a second TP in the game. This is a needed buff.
/vote no Kamikaze alex1234321 Primarily useful in the endgame and can cause one player to completely swing the outcome of the game.

/vote no Framer Buff Capwarrior2 Does not buff the Framer enough. Framer buffs in general need "more edits", but I'd prefer to move on to someone else's framer buff idea rather than tweak this one.
/vote more testing Ambusher Rework Paradox12 Needs to be tested in a large game. The testing showed us that it makes little difference in the lategame, but we still don't know whether it's balanced early on.
/vote more testing Consigliere Buff OreCreeper Needs to be tested in a large game. This is probably a good idea, but I cannot convince myself that it made any difference in that one test game it showed up in.
/vote no Kamikaze alex1234321 Too swingy. This is always a problem with TKs but Kamikaze has it worse than most.

Brilliand wrote:/vote more testing Consigliere Buff OreCreeper Needs to be tested in a large game. This is probably a good idea, but I cannot convince myself that it made any difference in that one test game it showed up in.

I think it should have made a difference, but the Consig (I don't remember who it was) made a bad decision by attacking the Jailor when they knew there were 2 TPs in the game. The Jailor did end up having a Bodyguard on them, but the Bodyguard was roleblocked by an Escort. I think the Consig should have attacked the Bodyguard there, but they ended up being jailed so that would have failed.

So I do not think the Consig buff made a significant difference on that game, but it would have made a difference (actually it would have been detrimental in this scenario) had the Consig taken advantage of it.

alex1234321 wrote:I think it should have made a difference, but the Consig (I don't remember who it was) made a bad decision by attacking the Jailor when they knew there were 2 TPs in the game. The Jailor did end up having a Bodyguard on them, but the Bodyguard was roleblocked by an Escort. I think the Consig should have attacked the Bodyguard there, but they ended up being jailed so that would have failed.

My thought is that the Consig should have known that there were two Bodyguards even without the ability under test. I checked a Bodyguard N1, and confirmed him in open chat the next day. The Consig checked the other Bodyguard a bit later, so as soon as he knew it was a Bodyguard he knew he was finding the second Bodyguard. The only new information the ability under test gave him is that there wasn't a third TP (which would have been unlikely under the rolelist anyway).

Brilliand wrote:

alex1234321 wrote:I think it should have made a difference, but the Consig (I don't remember who it was) made a bad decision by attacking the Jailor when they knew there were 2 TPs in the game. The Jailor did end up having a Bodyguard on them, but the Bodyguard was roleblocked by an Escort. I think the Consig should have attacked the Bodyguard there, but they ended up being jailed so that would have failed.

My thought is that the Consig should have known that there were two Bodyguards even without the ability under test. I checked a Bodyguard N1, and confirmed him in open chat the next day. The Consig checked the other Bodyguard a bit later, so as soon as he knew it was a Bodyguard he knew he was finding the second Bodyguard. The only new information the ability under test gave him is that there wasn't a third TP (which would have been unlikely under the rolelist anyway).

I didn't see that. Still seems like it could be useful in games without massclaims, which means that it would be more effective in larger games. It might be a good idea to continue testing it but I think we have a decent idea of what the buff does and should focus on things we haven't tested at all.

I'll put up the March roles once we get one more person to vote here so that we have an odd number.

/vote More Edits Framer Buff Capwarrior2 - still seems incredibly weak
/vote yes Ambusher Rework Paradox12 - I like the idea, seems pretty sound
/vote no Consigliere Buff OreCreeper - consig is very powerful as is, and very fun to play, IMO it's balanced and doesn't need buffing
/vote no Kamikaze alex1234321 - all the current TKs are very powerful as is, there's no need for another one IMO

Here are the final results for the February test roles:

Framer Buff by CapWarrior2 2 4 1 0
Ambusher Rework by Paradox12 4 1 0 2
Consigliere Buff by OreCreeper 3 3 0 1
Kamikaze by alex1234321 0 5 2 0

And here are the official outcomes:
Framer Buff: Removed
Ambusher Rework: Approved
Consigliere Buff: More Testing
Kamikaze: Removed

I will edit the OP and begin the poll for the March test roles shortly!

Edit: I started the new poll. It will continue until the current testing cycle ends.

Nobody has been looking at this so I'm gonna vote.

/vote more testing Conqueror the role wasn't really able to do much in the games where it was tested and just acted like a Serial Killer. I want to see a situation where the healing ability makes a difference.

/vote more edits Copycat I think Ezra's rework is worth a try. Even at night, the more useful roles tend to be harder to kill since they'd usually have TP on them. I'm still skeptical about whether it would work but it would be a good idea to test the rework.

/vote yes Rolestopper The role didn't do much in tests, but there wasn't a single test where the Jailor meta'ed. The name can use a change but that's about it.

/vote no Stalker I don't like independent MK, but I think it could be massively reworked into a Coven role. But it would need much more kill power, maybe like a more limited Electrician. At that point, we might as well make a new role and submit that.

/vote testing Conqueror----i havent really seen it be used all that much to be honest. I am suspecting it could maybe use a buff since its Win Con is a bit difficult to manage but in lieu of that, I will put forward more testing

/vote testing Copycat--same ish as above, havent really seen it much in action just yet but I think its pretty balanced actually

/vote yes Rolestopper--it seems pretty fair & useful as is. Of course i wouldnt mind more tests with it but I think it is pretty good actually. I second the namechange though. Maybe change it to a name that is someone/something that would scare someone off? like Ghost? but. not Ghost LOL

/vote yes Stalker--Stalker was pretty useful for the Mafia from what I remembered but required some modicum of planning & forethought. I liked it.

Overall, I am pretty content with everything but I wouldnt mind some more tests here & there

I will extend the voting for another 48 hours beyond this post. This is the most important part of the TG! Your vote will determine whether we scrap a concept or push for it to be implemented!

/vote testing Conqueror - Hasn't yet lived up to its potential in a test game
/vote no Copycat - The current version is definitely too weak, and I don't believe that Ezra's proposed rework will be enough to fix it either. There's probably some way to fix it, but I don't want to spend the TG's currently limited bandwidth on that.
/vote testing Rolestopper - Hasn't yet lived up to its potential in a test game
/vote no Stalker - It's interesting, and not really overpowered, but I agree that it's better not to accept an independent MK.

By the way, I think we need approval voting for this thread too - I keep finding myself torn between two options (in this case "no" and "more edits" for Copycat).

The only role of this bunch that I tested is the conqueror and I think it seemed pretty fun though I would like to see more of what it can do.

/vote more testing Conqueror

I don't think I should vote on the other roles since I haven't been in a test with them

copycat is fine as forum mafia role and even so, my version of it fixes its issues.
copycat isn't good as tos role. from ne perspective you need a role that's on the par with witch, copycat fails to deliver this.
/vote no on copycat
same goes to conqueror, i would rather bring bomber to tos than conqueror, which imo would fit perfectly fine in fm game.
/vote no on conqueror
rs is okish, needs an edit. and with rs i would rather have marshal too.
/vote edit rs
/vote no on stalker

conqueror might be fine if you let it have rolecop checks

I just noticed that I forgot to give Klepto the one-shot shield when writing the RI post

So I vote to give it the same one-shot shield that other true NE roles have

Finally I got a vote to break the ties.

Here are the final results for the February test roles:

Conqueror by Brilliand 0 2 0 5
Copycat by Ezradekezra 0 4 2 1
Rolestopper by Ezradekezra 3 1 2 1
Stalker by OreCreeper 1 4 0 1

And here are the official outcomes:
Conqueror: More Testing
Copycat: Removed
Rolestopper: More Testing
Stalker: Removed

I'm going to do the next two cycles simultaneously so that we can catch up with these polls. Also I'm going to move to an approval system.

alex1234321 wrote:Also I'm going to move to an approval system.

Meaning, we can vote for more than one outcome on each role?

Brilliand wrote:

alex1234321 wrote:Also I'm going to move to an approval system.

Meaning, we can vote for more than one outcome on each role?

Yeah like you suggested. I do think it could be weird to vote for both yes and more edits or smth but it's worth a try.

remind me which roles we're currently voting on

also rip copycat

Ezradekezra wrote:remind me which roles we're currently voting on

also rip copycat

I'll update the poll tomorrow once I get the voting system sorted out.

I updated the poll. You may now vote for each of the roles from the last two cycles. Here are my votes:

/vote no Spy rework Too weak, and I'm not sure what edits could be made to buff it without completely changing the rework.
/vote yes, more testing Mortician Generally performed well in tests, but it might be good to see it in a larger game.
/vote yes, more testing Vig rework I support this change, but the test results were inconclusive and it might be useful to test in a larger game.
/vote no Charmer Nearly impossible to predict where the charm will be after more than 1-2 nights. Not really sure how skilled players could use this role well.
/vote yes, more testing Agent I like this role, but it didn't really do much in our tests. Having it in a few more tests might give us a better idea of how it works.
/vote yes, more edits Technician This role pleasantly surprised me. I like it but sabotage should be modified to have a more consistent effect.
/vote no Kleptomaniac The role has a Consig check by default, and I really don't like giving NE roles Consig checks.

/Vote No Spy Rework
/Vote More Edits Mortician
/Vote No Vigilante
/Vote Yes Charmer
/Vote Needs more Testing Agent
/Vote Yes Technician
/Vote Needs more testing (With Scum Shield)

Reasons:
Spy: It didn't really add much to the spy dynamic and felt like it took more away from it.

Mortician: Role has a lot of potential, but winning with it feels near impossible. (Mortician did obtain 1 win, through luck it felt) - Needs more flexibilty but is cool.

Vigilante: No point in shooting night 1.

Charmer: Has a lot of potential, and got a few saves off during testing. The question over its own protection is up to the creator to discuss.

Agent: Needs more testing since the Agent was killed before doing anything nearly every game

Technician: Despite getting trash-talked it actually held its own, got a save off for the godfather, and in the final recorded test pulled a clutch smoke bomb off, allowing mafia to win cleanly.

Kleptomaniac: Give this role a scum shield. It dies too fast otherwise, but it is an interesting role for sure. I think if it has a scum shield it would be much more consistent.