Test Discussion Masterthread

Test roles that have been suggested in simulated gameplay.

Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby superdog551 » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:55 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
superdog551 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:Today's transcript

I wasn't able to come to the test, but Widget hosted it and sent me the transcript. There were four games.

What did everyone think of the test? Which roles played well and seemed balanced? How did they affect the game?


Charmer hasn't been seen doing much yet, people with the role kept dying right away and a few of us talked about how it would be more effective in a full size game. Klepto is still fun but we came to a consensus that it needs a scum vest like witch. I was klepto and mafia targeted me twice with me being healed the first time and the second time I died, but if I had a vest I think that they could've realized I was the NE and teamed with me. Technician had a clutch play with a smokebomb where it blocked a LO and others from a target, though we also discussed that it is mechanic heavy and definitely can be streamlined. Agent seemed pretty balanced and if I remember correctly one easily fake-claimed LO and another actual LO was less trustworthy due to the possibility of Agent.


If Klepto has an autovest, should it still be able to steal defense from a player? Like if it targets a role with defense and it's attacked that night should it keep the autovest? Or would that be too complicated and unnecessary?


I don't know, we just noticed that klepto dies pretty early most games it appears so it may be helpful to keep it around longer.
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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:59 pm

We only had one game today but it was 10p. We did a 6v4 rolelist and Town got destroyed. But that's what happens with D2 LyLo and Jailor dying N1.

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Transcript

As the mod I had a really hard time with Charmer interactions. I treated it like this:

1. Charmer charms player A who visits player B.
2. If player A is attacked, they are saved and the charm breaks.
3. If player B is attacked, they are not protected by the charm.
4. If neither player is attacked, the charm goes to player B.
5. If player B is lynched, they die and the charm breaks. If player A is lynched, they die but the charm does not break.

The main issue was that the player who the charmed person visited (player B in the example) was lynched the next day. I made the charm break but apparently that was wrong. Later in the game, someone who was attacked visited a charmed player (who stayed home) the same night. I treated it like step 3 in the example and killed the player.

I think this further confirms that Charmer's mechanics are too unpredictable. You can't really predict who will get the charm because of all the weird interactions. Maybe you can predict who the charmed player might visit but you can't really go beyond that.
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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby superdog551 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:40 pm

Unfortunately I have to agree, charmer hasn't been able to help town once outside of acting like a doctor in any test so far. If the ruling was done as intended it would have saved a townie but even then it wouldn't have made much of a difference. As much as I love the concept of it I have to admit that its not at all performing how I imagined it could, and a role with a more consistent ability, such as Blacksmith, could perform my original goal of protecting multiple people at a time in a more substantial way.

I don't think we seen any of the other roles today? If we did I didn't notice much from them
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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:48 pm

superdog551 wrote:Unfortunately I have to agree, charmer hasn't been able to help town once outside of acting like a doctor in any test so far. If the ruling was done as intended it would have saved a townie but even then it wouldn't have made much of a difference. As much as I love the concept of it I have to admit that its not at all performing how I imagined it could, and a role with a more consistent ability, such as Blacksmith, could perform my original goal of protecting multiple people at a time in a more substantial way.

I don't think we seen any of the other roles today? If we did I didn't notice much from them


Agent also rolled but it didn't do much. To be fair I made a couple of modding errors with it and its Witch interactions but it couldn't have done much. I think it would have been more useful if the Jailor didn't die N1.
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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:31 pm

2021-07-09 test results: Confounder OP

Not really, actually it did exactly the same thing a Framer does at its best: caused a Sheriff to falsely accuse another townie. It was going to result in a quick Mafia win, but then there was a mod error that resulted in the game being called off. We didn't manage to get another game in today.
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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:58 pm

Brilliand wrote:2021-07-09 test results: Confounder OP

Not really, actually it did exactly the same thing a Framer does at its best: caused a Sheriff to falsely accuse another townie. It was going to result in a quick Mafia win, but then there was a mod error that resulted in the game being called off. We didn't manage to get another game in today.


By OP, do you mean more powerful than Consort? In general most Mafia roles are too weak, and you don't see many people suggesting Consort nerfs.

If it is too OP, do you think it can work as an NE? I really like the concept.

What other roles were tested?
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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby Ezradekezra » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:00 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:2021-07-09 test results: Confounder OP

Not really, actually it did exactly the same thing a Framer does at its best: caused a Sheriff to falsely accuse another townie. It was going to result in a quick Mafia win, but then there was a mod error that resulted in the game being called off. We didn't manage to get another game in today.


By OP, do you mean more powerful than Consort? In general most Mafia roles are too weak, and you don't see many people suggesting Consort nerfs.

If it is too OP, do you think it can work as an NE? I really like the concept.

What other roles were tested?

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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:38 pm

alex1234321 wrote:By OP, do you mean more powerful than Consort? In general most Mafia roles are too weak, and you don't see many people suggesting Consort nerfs.


Hard to say whether Confounder is actually OP. What we have seen is one occasion of it completely dominating a game. That can happen to any role, though.

I do think that Confounder is probably stronger than Consort. At a glance, it sort of looks like it has the power of two Consorts and two (old-style) Framers, all rolled into one.

alex1234321 wrote:What other roles were tested?


Come to think of it, the mod (ak) didn't provide the full list of roles in that game. I can tell you (based on what I saw as a player) that it was a 5 Town vs. 2 Mafia game, and the roles Confounder, Disguiser, Lookout and Sheriff were all present; but I don't know what the other three Town roles were.
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Re: Test Discussion Masterthread

Postby Benn3 » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:01 pm

We only had like one game with Confounder and that's when the mod issue happened on like D2.

We also only had 7 players so we can barely judge off that one game. That night was a whole coincidence that Sunbird(the town protect) was going on a Mafia member, and their target got switched with a Sheriff; it wasn't planned. You can't just say "omg confounder op because they framed a guy" off of one scenario, especially when it was with only 7 players.
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