OreCreeper wrote:Rolestopper by Ezradekezra
Jailor meta is already pretty weak now because of the witch and this is pretty much just an NE marshal.
OreCreeper wrote:Omen by CapWarrior2
I forgot was this was.
Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Rolestopper by Ezradekezra
Jailor meta is already pretty weak now because of the witch and this is pretty much just an NE marshal.
Except the Jailor meta isn't weak. People still do it a lot of the time, and it still works pretty well. The Witch is generally too afraid to control the Jailor because there's a high probability of a LO existing. Rolestopper shouldn't have to worry about LOs unless there are multiple LOs, since they prioritize scaring off TIs.
Additionally, Rolestopper has utility outside of stopping the Jailor meta, and it's also a true NE that would be able to spawn in Coven modes.
Also, while Ranked may the primary mode that the game is balanced around, it isn't the only gamemode and Rolestopper doesn't necessarily have to be added to Ranked.
OreCreeper wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Rolestopper by Ezradekezra
Jailor meta is already pretty weak now because of the witch and this is pretty much just an NE marshal.
Except the Jailor meta isn't weak. People still do it a lot of the time, and it still works pretty well. The Witch is generally too afraid to control the Jailor because there's a high probability of a LO existing. Rolestopper shouldn't have to worry about LOs unless there are multiple LOs, since they prioritize scaring off TIs.
Additionally, Rolestopper has utility outside of stopping the Jailor meta, and it's also a true NE that would be able to spawn in Coven modes.
Also, while Ranked may the primary mode that the game is balanced around, it isn't the only gamemode and Rolestopper doesn't necessarily have to be added to Ranked.
Imo if you want to add roles to balance the game, you should first consider how well it will do in ranked. If it doesn't do well in ranked, then it's probably not good for the game's balance. The witch shouldn't be too afraid to go on the jailor because even if they are caught by the LO, they are just one of many visits and they can just claim TP. Or, they can just witch any escort claims into the jailor for the same effect. Besides, by the time the witch is caught, it's usually too late for town anyway as they have already lost majority. Also, imo prioritizing TIs makes the role worse because honestly, would you rather scare the bodyguard off the mayor or the spy?
Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Rolestopper by Ezradekezra
Jailor meta is already pretty weak now because of the witch and this is pretty much just an NE marshal.
Except the Jailor meta isn't weak. People still do it a lot of the time, and it still works pretty well. The Witch is generally too afraid to control the Jailor because there's a high probability of a LO existing. Rolestopper shouldn't have to worry about LOs unless there are multiple LOs, since they prioritize scaring off TIs.
Additionally, Rolestopper has utility outside of stopping the Jailor meta, and it's also a true NE that would be able to spawn in Coven modes.
Also, while Ranked may the primary mode that the game is balanced around, it isn't the only gamemode and Rolestopper doesn't necessarily have to be added to Ranked.
Imo if you want to add roles to balance the game, you should first consider how well it will do in ranked. If it doesn't do well in ranked, then it's probably not good for the game's balance. The witch shouldn't be too afraid to go on the jailor because even if they are caught by the LO, they are just one of many visits and they can just claim TP. Or, they can just witch any escort claims into the jailor for the same effect. Besides, by the time the witch is caught, it's usually too late for town anyway as they have already lost majority. Also, imo prioritizing TIs makes the role worse because honestly, would you rather scare the bodyguard off the mayor or the spy?
The niche situation about a Spy and a BG going on a Mayor seems like a non-issue to me. That can be solved by having a decent scumteam that's good at choosing who to kill. A good Mafia/Coven would kill the Spy before the Mayor reveals, knowing that a Spy's existence makes it much harder to fake-claim certain roles.
Aside from that, you haven't really given a good reason for why Rolestopper would be bad in Ranked. One issue that some people have raised with the current Ranked role list is that a guaranteed Executioner and Witch makes games a bit too predictable at times, and changing the Witch slot to a Witch/Rolestopper slot might actually be a good solution to that.
OreCreeper wrote:Why would you want this role when you can have a witch?
Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Why would you want this role when you can have a a witch?
4. It's a much more effective counter to the Jailor meta than
Witch is
Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Why would you want this role when you can have a witch?
- Rolestopper would be able to appear in Coven modes, while Witch can't
- With Rolestopper, you need to figure out who people are likely to target rather than who is likely to do the targeting
- Rolestopper can block some roles that Witch can't affect, like Transporter
- It's a much more effective counter to the Jailor meta than Witch is
OreCreeper wrote:1) Most coven modes that have an NE slot are pretty dead anyway except for CAA.
OreCreeper wrote:2) Doesn't answer the question of why we need it.
OreCreeper wrote:3) How would it block transporter? I always assumed that role-block immunity bypassed it. This would just create paradoxes because transporter is supposed to swap their target which means that the rolestopper would target the other player because of the transport and scare away the transporter, but this would mean the transporter never transported their targets, which would mean the rolestopper would have never changed their target. It's the reason why transporters had RB and control immunity in the first place.
OreCreeper wrote:4) Not really, because a witch can a) stop TPs from protecting the jailor and b) stop the jailor from killing while a rolestopper can only do the first thing and not the second.
Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) Most coven modes that have an NE slot are pretty dead anyway except for CAA.
Your point being... what, exactly?OreCreeper wrote:2) Doesn't answer the question of why we need it.
That wasn't the question
The question was about why someone would want to play as a Rolestopper instead of as a WitchOreCreeper wrote:3) How would it block transporter? I always assumed that role-block immunity bypassed it. This would just create paradoxes because transporter is supposed to swap their target which means that the rolestopper would target the other player because of the transport and scare away the transporter, but this would mean the transporter never transported their targets, which would mean the rolestopper would have never changed their target. It's the reason why transporters had RB and control immunity in the first place.
It works the same as it does when you try to transport someone who's jailed.OreCreeper wrote:4) Not really, because a witch can a) stop TPs from protecting the jailor and b) stop the jailor from killing while a rolestopper can only do the first thing and not the second.
Witch has to find the TPs
Rolestopper doesn't
OreCreeper wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) Most coven modes that have an NE slot are pretty dead anyway except for CAA.
Your point being... what, exactly?OreCreeper wrote:2) Doesn't answer the question of why we need it.
That wasn't the question
The question was about why someone would want to play as a Rolestopper instead of as a WitchOreCreeper wrote:3) How would it block transporter? I always assumed that role-block immunity bypassed it. This would just create paradoxes because transporter is supposed to swap their target which means that the rolestopper would target the other player because of the transport and scare away the transporter, but this would mean the transporter never transported their targets, which would mean the rolestopper would have never changed their target. It's the reason why transporters had RB and control immunity in the first place.
It works the same as it does when you try to transport someone who's jailed.OreCreeper wrote:4) Not really, because a witch can a) stop TPs from protecting the jailor and b) stop the jailor from killing while a rolestopper can only do the first thing and not the second.
Witch has to find the TPs
Rolestopper doesn't
1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
2) No, I was saying why would evils ever want a rolestopper when witch can do exactly what rolestopper does but better.
3) No, it can't work like that because jailing is a day ability that takes effect at the beginning of the night while rolestopping takes effect at the very end of the night. This means that jailing isn't affected by transports but rolestops will be. Jailing priority works similarly to a pirate RB because if you transport the target it won't change the jailor's or pirate's target, but this is different because it's not a day ability.
4) Witch has a consigliere ability that lets it find all TPs, and not only that, it can see feedback from any TIs they control, including LOs who watch jailor. Also, rolestopper can't stop the jailor, but witch can.
OreCreeper wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) Most coven modes that have an NE slot are pretty dead anyway except for CAA.
Your point being... what, exactly?OreCreeper wrote:2) Doesn't answer the question of why we need it.
That wasn't the question
The question was about why someone would want to play as a Rolestopper instead of as a WitchOreCreeper wrote:3) How would it block transporter? I always assumed that role-block immunity bypassed it. This would just create paradoxes because transporter is supposed to swap their target which means that the rolestopper would target the other player because of the transport and scare away the transporter, but this would mean the transporter never transported their targets, which would mean the rolestopper would have never changed their target. It's the reason why transporters had RB and control immunity in the first place.
It works the same as it does when you try to transport someone who's jailed.OreCreeper wrote:4) Not really, because a witch can a) stop TPs from protecting the jailor and b) stop the jailor from killing while a rolestopper can only do the first thing and not the second.
Witch has to find the TPs
Rolestopper doesn't
1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
2) No, I was saying why would evils ever want a rolestopper when witch can do exactly what rolestopper does but better.
3) No, it can't work like that because jailing is a day ability that takes effect at the beginning of the night while rolestopping takes effect at the very end of the night. This means that jailing isn't affected by transports but rolestops will be. Jailing priority works similarly to a pirate RB because if you transport the target it won't change the jailor's or pirate's target, but this is different because it's not a day ability.
4) Witch has a consigliere ability that lets it find all TPs, and not only that, it can see feedback from any TIs they control, including LOs who watch jailor. Also, rolestopper can't stop the jailor, but witch can.
OreCreeper wrote:1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
alex1234321 wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) Most coven modes that have an NE slot are pretty dead anyway except for CAA.
Your point being... what, exactly?OreCreeper wrote:2) Doesn't answer the question of why we need it.
That wasn't the question
The question was about why someone would want to play as a Rolestopper instead of as a WitchOreCreeper wrote:3) How would it block transporter? I always assumed that role-block immunity bypassed it. This would just create paradoxes because transporter is supposed to swap their target which means that the rolestopper would target the other player because of the transport and scare away the transporter, but this would mean the transporter never transported their targets, which would mean the rolestopper would have never changed their target. It's the reason why transporters had RB and control immunity in the first place.
It works the same as it does when you try to transport someone who's jailed.OreCreeper wrote:4) Not really, because a witch can a) stop TPs from protecting the jailor and b) stop the jailor from killing while a rolestopper can only do the first thing and not the second.
Witch has to find the TPs
Rolestopper doesn't
1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
2) No, I was saying why would evils ever want a rolestopper when witch can do exactly what rolestopper does but better.
3) No, it can't work like that because jailing is a day ability that takes effect at the beginning of the night while rolestopping takes effect at the very end of the night. This means that jailing isn't affected by transports but rolestops will be. Jailing priority works similarly to a pirate RB because if you transport the target it won't change the jailor's or pirate's target, but this is different because it's not a day ability.
4) Witch has a consigliere ability that lets it find all TPs, and not only that, it can see feedback from any TIs they control, including LOs who watch jailor. Also, rolestopper can't stop the jailor, but witch can.
What do you think about giving Rolestopper the consig ability and letting it see feedback for TIs that it stops?
Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
The three Coven modes with randomly-spawning NEs are Coven Ranked Practice, Coven Ranked, and Coven All Any
None of these modes are dead by any means, seeing how I've managed to play games in all three of them recently
I'm starting to question whether or not you have the DLC
CapWarrior2 wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
The three Coven modes with randomly-spawning NEs are Coven Ranked Practice, Coven Ranked, and Coven All Any
None of these modes are dead by any means, seeing how I've managed to play games in all three of them recently
I'm starting to question whether or not you have the DLC
I mean Idk bout Coven Ranked but im pretty sure Coven RP is definitely dead.
OreCreeper wrote:alex1234321 wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) Most coven modes that have an NE slot are pretty dead anyway except for CAA.
Your point being... what, exactly?OreCreeper wrote:2) Doesn't answer the question of why we need it.
That wasn't the question
The question was about why someone would want to play as a Rolestopper instead of as a WitchOreCreeper wrote:3) How would it block transporter? I always assumed that role-block immunity bypassed it. This would just create paradoxes because transporter is supposed to swap their target which means that the rolestopper would target the other player because of the transport and scare away the transporter, but this would mean the transporter never transported their targets, which would mean the rolestopper would have never changed their target. It's the reason why transporters had RB and control immunity in the first place.
It works the same as it does when you try to transport someone who's jailed.OreCreeper wrote:4) Not really, because a witch can a) stop TPs from protecting the jailor and b) stop the jailor from killing while a rolestopper can only do the first thing and not the second.
Witch has to find the TPs
Rolestopper doesn't
1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
2) No, I was saying why would evils ever want a rolestopper when witch can do exactly what rolestopper does but better.
3) No, it can't work like that because jailing is a day ability that takes effect at the beginning of the night while rolestopping takes effect at the very end of the night. This means that jailing isn't affected by transports but rolestops will be. Jailing priority works similarly to a pirate RB because if you transport the target it won't change the jailor's or pirate's target, but this is different because it's not a day ability.
4) Witch has a consigliere ability that lets it find all TPs, and not only that, it can see feedback from any TIs they control, including LOs who watch jailor. Also, rolestopper can't stop the jailor, but witch can.
What do you think about giving Rolestopper the consig ability and letting it see feedback for TIs that it stops?
What would they do with that information though? They can't really control who they scare off so knowing roles isn't really that useful for a rolestopper, unlike a witch who is actually helped by the extra info since it lets them know who to control better. I mean, the one save for the role might be to make it stop all visits on a player, which is pretty powerful but not that much since it stops evils visits as well. But it will put an end to the jailor meta for sure. Honestly though, jailor meta really isn't that good anymore.
alex1234321 wrote:OreCreeper wrote:alex1234321 wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Ezradekezra wrote:OreCreeper wrote:1) Most coven modes that have an NE slot are pretty dead anyway except for CAA.
Your point being... what, exactly?OreCreeper wrote:2) Doesn't answer the question of why we need it.
That wasn't the question
The question was about why someone would want to play as a Rolestopper instead of as a WitchOreCreeper wrote:3) How would it block transporter? I always assumed that role-block immunity bypassed it. This would just create paradoxes because transporter is supposed to swap their target which means that the rolestopper would target the other player because of the transport and scare away the transporter, but this would mean the transporter never transported their targets, which would mean the rolestopper would have never changed their target. It's the reason why transporters had RB and control immunity in the first place.
It works the same as it does when you try to transport someone who's jailed.OreCreeper wrote:4) Not really, because a witch can a) stop TPs from protecting the jailor and b) stop the jailor from killing while a rolestopper can only do the first thing and not the second.
Witch has to find the TPs
Rolestopper doesn't
1) My point is that there's no reason to cater to dead gamemodes.
2) No, I was saying why would evils ever want a rolestopper when witch can do exactly what rolestopper does but better.
3) No, it can't work like that because jailing is a day ability that takes effect at the beginning of the night while rolestopping takes effect at the very end of the night. This means that jailing isn't affected by transports but rolestops will be. Jailing priority works similarly to a pirate RB because if you transport the target it won't change the jailor's or pirate's target, but this is different because it's not a day ability.
4) Witch has a consigliere ability that lets it find all TPs, and not only that, it can see feedback from any TIs they control, including LOs who watch jailor. Also, rolestopper can't stop the jailor, but witch can.
What do you think about giving Rolestopper the consig ability and letting it see feedback for TIs that it stops?
What would they do with that information though? They can't really control who they scare off so knowing roles isn't really that useful for a rolestopper, unlike a witch who is actually helped by the extra info since it lets them know who to control better. I mean, the one save for the role might be to make it stop all visits on a player, which is pretty powerful but not that much since it stops evils visits as well. But it will put an end to the jailor meta for sure. Honestly though, jailor meta really isn't that good anymore.
If you find Mafia you can whisper them and plan attacks so that Mafia doesn't hit TPs.
OreCreeper wrote:I mean yeah but if there's multiple TPs that won't really work and there's no guarantee that you won't end up rb'ing a random TI role who decided to visit.
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:I got an idea to improve rolestopper because rn seems weak, but rbing everyone would be OP
So I suggest this
Rolestopper selects a target and an type of roleblock, they can choose
A: Roleblock all TIs
B: Roleblock all TPs
C: Roleblock TS (this means transporter, escort and all zombies from retri)
D: Roleblock killers (this will produce a healing message to the target if they stop a killer)
That way they can be more useful and protect mafia without having to find the vigi
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:They cannot choose the same option twice in a row unless they failed to stop (I.E: no one of that sub alignment visited them)
If their target wasnt visited by the roles it tried to rb, then they will rb a visitor at random (this one can be scum)
(Optional): they know the roles of the people they scared away, and also the roles of scum that visited their target
fwogcarf wrote:gl yall
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:I got an idea to improve rolestopper because rn seems weak, but rbing everyone would be OP
So I suggest this
Rolestopper selects a target and an type of roleblock, they can choose
A: Roleblock all TIs
B: Roleblock all TPs
C: Roleblock TS (this means transporter, escort and all zombies from retri)
D: Roleblock killers (this will produce a healing message to the target if they stop a killer)
That way they can be more useful and protect mafia without having to find the vigi
They cannot choose the same option twice in a row unless they failed to stop (I.E: no one of that sub alignment visited them)
If their target wasnt visited by the roles it tried to rb, then they will rb a visitor at random (this one can be scum)
(Optional): they know the roles of the people they scared away, and also the roles of scum that visited their target
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