TG Role/Concept Poll | Voting

[alex1234321]

I was hoping we'd have a name by now, but I'll keep the poll open for a few days until there is a name that people clearly prefer. Even if you aren't able to attend tests regularly or don't care what it is called, please pick one of the choices.

With the goal of beginning official tests by the end of January or beginning of February, I am now going to accept role submissions for the TG. This will work similarly to the previous system, which is described on this thread. Here's a summary of that thread along with differences between the previous procedure and the new one.

To submit a role or concept, please either reply in this thread or PM alex1234321. I barely ever receive PMs so make the title whatever you want within reason. Information to include:

• Name of role/concept
• Link to post on Role Ideas Forum
• Hex color (Town is #00BF40 and Mafia is #FF0000)

You may submit roles or concepts created by other users, but you must have the original poster's permission. You may submit as many roles/concepts as you want. Concepts may include but are not limited to buffs, nerfs, and larger overhauls. You may also submit changes to the game itself such as changes to the phase lengths or voting structure.

After submitting a role or concept, I will let you know whether or not it has been approved. Approved roles and concepts will be displayed on this post as soon as they are approved. Roles/concepts must not be blatant joke ideas and must fulfill the guidelines outlined in this post. If your role violates one of those guidelines but you feel like there is a good reason to do so, please explain your reasoning in your submission message.

The February submission phase has ended! You may still submit roles but they will not be displayed until voting ends.

Once the submission phase ends, voting will begin. An approval voting system will be used, meaning that you may vote for as many or as few of the proposed roles/concepts as you would like. To vote, please reply to this thread. If you would like to vote anonymously, please PM alex1234321. To make it clear which concepts you are voting for, please use the following format when voting:

/vote [role/concept name] [author if ambiguous]

You may want to take back a vote that you previously sent. To do so, please use the following format:

/unvote [role/concept name] [author if ambiguous]

You may change your votes as many times as you would like within the voting phase. Votes that are not in this form will not be counted.

The February voting phase will last until February 28, 2021 at 23:59 UTC.

In total, the top four roles and concepts from the January poll will be tested in February. If voting is extended beyond January 31, the roles that are currently on the queue from the previous TG will be tested until voting ends. Roles that are not selected this month will automatically be included in the next poll. If a role or concept is not selected after three successive tests, it will be removed from future polls until the creator of the concept edits it to address any issues that prevented it from being selected.

There will not be an analysis phase this month, so please vote for roles that you think are balanced as opposed to roles that you think would be funny. If everyone wants to play with joke roles, then we can do that eventually. But for now the primary focus of the TG will be to run streamlined games that test the balance of your role ideas. If the new TG becomes more popular and develops a stable playerbase, we may reimplement some form of the analysis phase.

In the previous version of the TG, BS4125 introduced the SOVAT acronym to describe the testing process. Think of the new process as SVT:

Submission: Forumers are allowed to submit their concepts into the role poll. The old overviewing phase will be included here. (10 days now, 15-30 days in future months)
Voting: Forumers vote for their favorite concepts. (9 days now, 15-30 days in future months)
Testing: Tests are hosted featuring roles to decide whether they work. (30 days)

Votes:
Helper by Notused 0
Judge by Cavespider17 2
Stalker by OreCreeper 3
Conqueror by Brilliand 4
Copycat by Ezradekezra 4
Kleptomaniac by Ezradekezra 1
Minotaur by CapWarrior2 0
Omen by CapWarrior2 1
Robber by Notused 1
Rolestopper by Ezradekezra 4
Investigator Rework by cob709 2
Jailor Rework by alex1234321 1
Lookout Rework by alex1234321 2
Spy Rework by Soulshade55r 3
Silent Transports (thread by syjfwbaobfwl) 2
Trapper Rework by syjfwbaobfwl 0
Ambusher Rework by alex1234321 3
Framer Buff by Paradox12 2
Hypnotist Buff by Paradox12 2
Executioner Rework by alex1234321 2
Poisoner Buff by Brilliand (linked post, not OP) 1
Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709 3
Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement by Ezradekezra (option B) 1

Important Announcements:
1/12/21: January submission phase begins
1/22/21: January voting phase begins
2/1/21: February submission phase begins
2/15/21: February voting phase begins

[cob709]

I mean- this could also be a submission thread.
Anyways, can I get invited to the discord please?

[Ezradekezra]

I mean- this could also be a submission thread.
Anyways, can I get invited to the discord please?

https://discord.io/testinggrounds

I think it's supposed to be done via PMs so the thread doesn't get cluttered.

[CapWarrior2]

Yea so I would say from now on no talking in this thread unless it's of utter importance.

[alex1234321]

The January submission phase is now over! Be sure to pm me with your votes!

[Ezradekezra]

Vote for Rolestopper to end the Jailor meta today!

[cob709]

We should vote publicly to encourage discussion

[alex1234321]

We should vote publicly to encourage discussion

I made voting private because that's how it used to be and also if it was public that might clutter this thread. But maybe we can make a thread specifically for voting/discussion and this one can be reserved for important announcements. Do you think that's necessary?

[Ezradekezra]

We should vote publicly to encourage discussion

I made voting private because that's how it used to be and also if it was public that might clutter this thread. But maybe we can make a thread specifically for voting/discussion and this one can be reserved for important announcements. Do you think that's necessary?

I don't see why we can't just discuss in this thread

[cob709]

We should vote publicly to encourage discussion

I made voting private because that's how it used to be and also if it was public that might clutter this thread. But maybe we can make a thread specifically for voting/discussion and this one can be reserved for important announcements. Do you think that's necessary?

I don't see why we can't just discuss in this thread

Add a section at the end of the OP for important announcements. This way, everything important can easily be found while everyone still has the opportunity to discuss.
I also don't want the votes to be manipulated, the devs need to see that the voting was fair.

[alex1234321]

We should vote publicly to encourage discussion

I made voting private because that's how it used to be and also if it was public that might clutter this thread. But maybe we can make a thread specifically for voting/discussion and this one can be reserved for important announcements. Do you think that's necessary?

I don't see why we can't just discuss in this thread

Well I guess if you guys want to we can do voting and discussion in this thread. If you want your votes to be anonymous, you can still pm ne.

[Ezradekezra]

I already PM'd my votes but just so everyone else can see

/vote Kamikaze by Alex1234321
/vote Omen by CapWarrior2
/vote Rolestopper by Ezradekezra

I wanna test out funky new roles

[alex1234321]

Here are my votes:

/vote Kamikaze Creative but mechanically sound, also testing can help balance the power of this role compared to other TKs
/vote Rolestopper Combats Jailor meta while still being useful in other ways
/vote Investigator rework Would open up claimspace for scum while keeping Investigator's functionality
/vote Jailor rework Helps reduce confirmability of Jailor while still keeping its core functionality
/vote Silent Transports It would be interesting to see how this works in a fast-paced environment like ToS
/vote Ambusher Rework by alex1234321 Takes away independent Mafia kills, can benefit from testing due to multiple potential balance changes
/vote Consigliere buff Can definitely help Mafia strategies, testing can determine which messages should be given
/vote Framer buff by CapWarrior2 Expands the number of roles that Framer can trick, which can make the role much more useful

[Ezradekezra]

Is there anywhere we can go to suggest role lists?

[alex1234321]

Is there anywhere we can go to suggest role lists?

For the TG or for ToS in general? It might be interesting to use the TG to test potential ToS rolelists, but we would need 15 players for that. For regular roles or reworks you can usually get good information with only 7 players and I doubt we'll be getting 15 consistently.

[cob709]

Publicly posting votes. Don't count these again.

/vote Rolestopper by Ezradekezra - There needs to be more NE roles to replace Executioner/Jester
/vote Investigator Rework by cob709 - This user is a genius
/vote Jailor Rework by alex1234321 - I'll take what I can get. Jailor needs some kind of nerf.
/vote Consigliere Buff by OreCreeper - Consig needs to gather more information.
/vote Framer Buff by CapWarrior2 - Makes sense.
/vote Hypnotist Buff by Paradox12 - Might as well buf Mafia a little more.

[Ezradekezra]

I would like to suggest this role list.

Also, I decided to actually take a look at each role and make more informed decisions about them.

Kamikaze - Town (Killing) - Alex1234321
I'd need some more clarification about how this role works before I could support it. When does this role take its actions?

Omen - Neutral (Evil) - CapWarrior2
It's a very neat concept, but I'd seriously consider changing the Investigator category to Doc/Disg/SK/PM/Omen or Spy/BM/Jail/GA/Omen.

Rolestopper - Neutral (Evil) - Ezradekezra
It hardcounters the Jailor meta while also having other uses. It's also a true NE that could still spawn in coven modes. Also, I'm the guy who made this. Instant support.

Investigator - Town (Investigative) - Cob709
Set A is an unnecessary nerf to Consig, BMer, Hypno, Jan, PM, and PB, since it makes it much harder for those roles to go with their better fake claims (keep in mind that most people claim within Investigator results).

Set B has the same issue but with a different set of roles.

Jailor - Town (Killing) - Alex1234321
In my opinion, Jailor itself doesn't need to be nerfed. As a TK role and a leader role, it functions perfectly fine. The issue is that there aren't many good ways to counteract the Jailor meta, which I feel should be done by making evils more powerful.

Transporter - Town (Support) - Syjfwbaobfwl
I'd be open to testing out games where Trans only gives one notification, but it's not that hard for a Hypno to fake-claim Trans if they just get a teammate to claim trans'd. I'm neutral on this for now.

Ambusher - Mafia (Killing) - Alex1234321
This is a Mafia (Support) role, not a Mafia (Killing) role. I also don't think this reworked version will be nearly as interesting or require as much skill as the current Ambusher, which I also don't like.

Ambusher - Mafia (Killing) - Paradox12
This is a bit over-complicated, but it would allow Ambusher to claim TP more safely and counteract the issues of The Message™. I'd like to see where it goes.

Consigliere - Mafia (Support) - OreCreeper
I can actually get behind this, because it always annoys the fuck out of me when it seems safe to attack the Jailor but then there are two RT BGs. It also gives Consigliere more utility in modes like Ranked where most members of the Town claim early on.

Framer - Mafia (Deception) - CapWarrior2
Framer not affecting LO and Tracker has always been an issue so I support this.

Framer - Mafia (Deception) - Paradox12
Why tf would you get rid of semi-permanent frames? This is a hard no from me.

Hypnotist - Mafia (Deception) - Paradox12
Double Hypno's is a no from me. I'd be okay with testing out the other changes, though.

That said, I'm changing my votes a bit.

/unvote Kamikaze by Alex1234321
/vote Ambusher by Paradox12
/vote Consigliere by OreCreeper
/vote Framer by CapWarrior2

[alex1234321]

Kamikaze - Town (Killing) - Alex1234321
I'd need some more clarification about how this role works before I could support it. When does this role take its actions?

Its action is a one-time night ability where it can kill two players while sacrificing itself. As it currently stands, if its first target is a Townie, it will not kill its second target but will still sacrifice itself. The purpose of this is to prevent the swing caused by killing three Townies. The role is generally weaker than Vigilante earlier on but is slightly stronger in the endgame and can quickly turn the tide of the game at any stage.

[Ezradekezra]

Kamikaze - Town (Killing) - Alex1234321
I'd need some more clarification about how this role works before I could support it. When does this role take its actions?

Its action is a one-time night ability where it can kill two players while sacrificing itself. As it currently stands, if its first target is a Townie, it will not kill its second target but will still sacrifice itself. The purpose of this is to prevent the swing caused by killing three Townies. The role is generally weaker than Vigilante earlier on but is slightly stronger in the endgame and can quickly turn the tide of the game at any stage.

Is it a unique role?

[cob709]

Can we add some more submissions? We should be adding roles and making changes that are absolutely essential. Prioritizing these will have a positive impact.
I'd like to submit everything from the Spy reworks idea compilation(by svj) thread.

[CapWarrior2]

I'm doing Ezradekezra's layout because it looks good

Kamikaze - Town(Killing) - Alex1234321
This role can be more powerful in the right hands then a Jailor would. This role will probably be the backbone of town, carrying them to victory. The ability to kill 2 people in one night, whom you chose, is really powerful. I would like to see it in game, although I am expecting the outcome I'm thinking.

Omen - Neutral(Evil) - CapWarrior2
Obviously I'm going to be a bit biased. The purpose for this role is to directly support evils, by increasing their chances of winning, and increasing evils chances of winning. The Inv* category, I might change to GA with Omen but the problem I had was that then it would be an easy fake claim.

Rolestopper - Neutral(Evil) - Ezradekezra
This role is a good idea, apart from it relying on RNG who to roleblock and I feel if the RNG was sorted out somehow, then it should also scare evils so it can't just go on random people with no punishment at all. Although, it does seem like a good idea, so I will like to see it tested, yet I do not know how it would go.

Investigator - Town(Investigative) - Cob709
I would say test this out, to see if Investigator needs to go down this path or not. I would prefer set B rather then A because of the RNG.

Jailor - Town(Killing) - Alex1234321
Fixes the problem of spam jailing to prevent someone from doing their ability and spam jail to protect people, which makes Jailor more of a TK which is better, but I say test to see how it goes.

Transporter - Town(Support) - Syjwbaobfwl
Definite no for me. It creates way more problems then it fixes.

Ambusher - Mafia(Killing) -Alex1234321
Seems sort of pointless, TMK and removing ambusher would be better.

Ambusher - Mafia(Killing) - Paradox12
Ambusher is a problematic role, mainly due to his kill that ables mafia to get a 2nd kpn, and this would theoretically reduce the problem as early game im sure basically everyone will go cautious so I would say this is a step in the wrong direction, but will help with solving the problem of ambusher being entirely useless like framer (Hypno can atleast survive with his ability to mid-late game)

Consigliere - Mafia(Support) - OreCreeper
Seems pointless, unless your finding out how many coven/survivors are alive really.

Framer - Mafia(Deception) - CapWarrior2
This allows framer to fool all ti effectively, which what it was really in need of.

Framer - Mafia(Deception) - Paradox 12
Basically my idea but less control with deception.

Hypnotist - Mafia(Deception) - Paradox 12
Maybe with the option to remove other notifications could be useful in scenarios, which definitely would make Hypno more of a viable Deception member. But definitely not the 2 hypnotist messages, and not with the nerf to witch either. Witch is in a really good place right now, and it should try to not to get changed.

My votes:
/vote Framer - CapWarrior2
/vote Omen - CapWarrior2
/vote Kamikaze - alex1234321
/vote Rolestopper - Ezradekezra
/vote Investigator - cob709
/vote Jailor - alex1234321
/vote Ambusher - alex1234321

[alex1234321]

Kamikaze - Town (Killing) - Alex1234321
I'd need some more clarification about how this role works before I could support it. When does this role take its actions?

Its action is a one-time night ability where it can kill two players while sacrificing itself. As it currently stands, if its first target is a Townie, it will not kill its second target but will still sacrifice itself. The purpose of this is to prevent the swing caused by killing three Townies. The role is generally weaker than Vigilante earlier on but is slightly stronger in the endgame and can quickly turn the tide of the game at any stage.

Is it a unique role?

Not right now but it can be made unique. I don't think it's necessary because its swing is actually much less than Vigilante. Worst case scenario, both Vigilante and Kamikaze kill two Townies. The best Kamikaze can do is a 2 for 1 while Vigilante can thill three evils.

Can we add some more submissions? We should be adding roles and making changes that are absolutely essential. Prioritizing these will have a positive impact.
I'd like to submit everything from the Spy reworks idea compilation(by svj) thread.

I agree that we should prioritize the most important changes, but I think we should wait until more people vote on the Spy thread and submit the most popular concepts into the February poll. If we added all the Spy proposals into here, it might be redundant since everyone would have to vote twice for each of them. Alternatively, we can even dedicate the February submission/March testing cycle entirely to testing different Spy proposals to see which one is the most balanced.

[CapWarrior2]

Oh my bad, instead of the
/vote Ambusher - alex1234321
I meant
/vote Ambusher - Paradox12
(Disregard all of this)

[Ezradekezra]

Oh my bad, instead of the
/vote Ambusher - alex1234321
I meant
/vote Ambusher - Paradox12

(you might wanna put an unvote for Alex's Ambusher in there so it doesn't get misread)

[CapWarrior2]

/unvote Ambusher - alex1234321
/vote Ambusher - Paradox12