Testing Grounds Revival

Test roles that have been suggested in simulated gameplay.

Will you be an active participant in the new TG?

Yes
15
63%
Backup
5
21%
No
4
17%
 
Total votes : 24

Testing Grounds Revival

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:54 pm

Note: I have zero authority to do this, but I'm not sure why it wouldn't be allowed.

The Testing Grounds is dead, and by the looks of it has been dead for at least a year and maybe two. FM also appears to be dying, but it still has some time left. From what I have heard, the TG died because the devs stopped listening to our suggested balance changes. I don't remember the devs ever really paying attention to us, and this was never the main reason why I participated in tests. I always thought that if the TG was able to build a large enough playerbase, the devs would have to listen to us, but I participated in tests because it was fun to try out new roles every once in a while. I know that FM fulfills this purpose and still has a relatively large playerbase, but I don't have 5 hours every day to read hundreds of pages and analyze thousands of posts. I also enjoy the ToS forum community, so I wouldn't want to play shorter games on other sites.

So I'm going to try to revive the TG. We only need seven players to run a viable test, and it's possible to play fun games with even fewer players than that (Town of Vengeance, Town of Morons, etc). The new TG only needs to have a playerbase of around 10 active users to consistently run viable tests, and players only need to commit an hour or less per week. By making this post, we're already one-tenth of the way there. Even if we can't get enough users, we can probably steal a few from one of the regular ToS Discord servers. People who haven't heard of the TG, which includes nearly everyone who isn't active on the forums and every account created after 2018, would be intrigued by the concept of playing games with different roles.

IT'S TIME FOR A REVOLUTION!!!!!

There are a few logistical hurdles that we need to overcome to make this happen, but they should not pose too much of an issue. Here are what I think will be the largest problems in order of importance and how we can solve them:

1. The playerbase
I alluded to this earlier, but we need to create a large enough playerbase to form a functional new TG. Some people might be reluctant to join because it is unlikely that we will grab the attention of the devs, but I doubt anyone who plays FM expects the devs to implement their balance changes or even cares what the devs do. We can market the TG as a less time-consuming alternative to FM. I don't think we will get too many FM people because they have a strong community. However, there are a decent number of people on the ToS forums who play the occasional FM game but don't have time to be active (I'm one of them, or at least I used to be), and it's likely that a few of them would be interested in playing the occasional TG game. As I mentioned before, we can also get people from the ToS Discord. The vast majority would probably rather just play ToS, but there may be a few who are interested in joining us. Don't forget that we only need a few people for the new TG to be functional.

If you think you would be able to commit around an hour per week to the new TG, respond "Yes" to the poll. If you think you would be able to join the occasional game but do not want to commit the time to be a regular participant, respond with "Backup". That way we can determine how much advertising we need on other parts of the forums and other sites.

2. The client
The TG client is outdated and we do not have the people with the expertise to update it. We could still use that client and do everything manually, but it would be hard to add new roles and would become confusing. One of the last attempts to save the TG was through episodes similar to FM, but these games eventually devolved into chaos. Also, making the TG more similar to FM makes it very different from ToS in terms of pacing and takes away our biggest advantage, which is the relatively small time commitment necessary. In my opinion, the most viable alternative is to use Discord. This would make it easy for players to communicate in real time, so the pacing would be similar to ToS. It would also allow for more flexibility and make it easy to create and implement new rolecards. If the current Role Idea Moderators are on board with reviving the TG, we can do this on the existing server. Otherwise, I can create a new server that we can use to run and discuss the new TG tests.

3. Legitimacy
This should probably be above the client, but I wanted to discuss possible platforms first. Even if enough people are interested, the moderators might not like the idea of reviving the TG and possibly creating a rival Discord server to do so. There's probably some sort of rule on the forums preventing me from doing this, but I'm not sure what it is. If the mods also want to revive the TG, this probably won't be an issue. If they're not interested, they can easily shut this whole thing down. However, I do not see why the mods would be upset that someone is trying to revive the TG and help grow their community, especially considering that most of them seem to have given up on the TG at this point.

4. Organization
I haven't fully thought this out because a lot will depend on how many players are interested in the new TG. Although the primary purpose of this iteration of the TG is to have fun, we still need a procedure for incorporating new roles. I think we can do something similar to what we did in 2017 when users submitted role ideas and we voted on which ones to include each month. The biggest problem with this would be getting enough submissions and votes. If we aren't able to get enough roles to do monthly polls, we can make them quarterly instead. I think anything beyond that would be too far apart. If we still do not have enough roles, we can message the authors of the role ideas that receive the most views in a given month and ask them if they are interested in including their role in the TG poll. If we don't have enough people actively voting for roles to include, we can use some sort of ranked choice system to gain more information per person. Even then, I think we would need to get around 5 people voting for it to be viable, but that shouldn't be too hard if our playerbase is closer to 10. The other issue is how often to run the tests. I think weekly tests are often enough to make it engaging while not requiring too much commitment and plan on making a poll to see which days work best for everyone. Until we get enough users, we can keep the days flexible to make sure we have at least 7 players per test.

5. The name
In this post, I have informally referred to this iteration of the Testing Grounds as the new TG. I would call it TG 2, TG 2.0, or something similar, but many previous posts have referred to the TG using these names. We can just go with TG 2.0 or something, but it might be confusing and I think it would be better to come up with a completely new name. Even if the main purpose of the new TG is not to test roles for possible implementation into the game, I think we should keep the TG name since I am reviving the TG instead of creating a completely new community. If anyone has any name ideas, place reply to this thread with suggestions.

The TG may be dead and the forums may not be as active as they used to be, but that doesn't mean we can't create a better version of the TG. We don't need a large playerbase to be able to hold regular tests. It will be a fun, shorter alternative to FM where we will try out new roles that have never been tested before. And who knows, maybe if this goes extremely well we could even catch the attention of the devs!
#SaveTheTG

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby Yosh1123 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:07 pm

cool concept but does it actually work
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby cob709 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:49 pm

Sounds like fun! I'll definitely participate

alex1234321 wrote:There's probably some sort of rule on the forums preventing me from doing this, but I'm not sure what it is.

Rules are made to be broken
I think Rule #1 applies. Perhaps you can get a mod to approve.
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alex1234321 wrote:5. The name

Testing Grounds 3.0
Alex's Testing Grounds
Community Testing Grounds
Testing Grounds of 2021
Role Ideas Testing Grounds
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby lemonader666 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:35 am


alex1234321 wrote:The name

Custom Lot?
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby superdog551 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:52 am

I can't promise that I would be able to play every week but I will definitely participate when I have time!
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby Cookazoo2 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:39 pm

name concept: Town of Salem Testing Table.

Or Community Testing Grounds, that's cool too.

Town of Salem Anticipation might be a decent place to ask around for, I'm sure with some cooperation the lot of you could port some of their roles into whatever client you're running.
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby cob709 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:08 am

Testing Grounds: Revival

lol
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby CapWarrior2 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:37 am

I like the name of community testing grounds. Nickname can be ctg then.
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby Ascender » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:00 am

oh we're doing this again
for like
the 3rd, 4th time
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:21 am

I spoke to the mods and they mostly seem okay with what we are doing. They don't care if we host games on their Discord server but seem to have completely given up on the TG.

We're almost at 10 players!
#SaveTheTG

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby CapWarrior2 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:20 pm

8 people less go!
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Featured Idea:
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Testing Grounds:
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby Cookazoo2 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:36 pm

noice

i'm one of them
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby CapWarrior2 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:08 am

So quick questions,
I've never played Forum Mafia before,
Are we using the roles from Forum Mafia or from the Testing Grounds, or are we making them up?
I'm assuming this is done as their is one host and everyone has to communicate with the host with night abilities and day abilities?
What time frame we lookin at?
(Like how long does a game go for?)
How long are days/nights/voting phrases?
Idea Index:
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Best Idea:
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Featured Idea:
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Testing Grounds:
Come visit!
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby lemonader666 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:46 am

CapWarrior2 wrote:So quick questions,
I've never played Forum Mafia before,
Are we using the roles from Forum Mafia or from the Testing Grounds, or are we making them up?
I'm assuming this is done as their is one host and everyone has to communicate with the host with night abilities and day abilities?
What time frame we lookin at?
(Like how long does a game go for?)
How long are days/nights/voting phrases?

alex isn't aiming for an fm feel, he strictly wants tos-like stuff, but discord is the only currently available platform for hosting those types of games for him
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby CapWarrior2 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:55 am

So I should join the discord channel in his link?
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Featured Idea:
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby lemonader666 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:59 am

CapWarrior2 wrote:So I should join the discord channel in his link?

nah, that was an old project
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby alex1234321 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:04 am

CapWarrior2 wrote:So quick questions,
I've never played Forum Mafia before,
Are we using the roles from Forum Mafia or from the Testing Grounds, or are we making them up?

In the first few tests we may use some of the roles that were planned for the TG but were never implemented. After that, it will be organized similarly to the TG in 2017-2018. Anyone will be able to submit a role, and we will vote on which ones to implement with a review phase to make sure that the roles don't have broken mechanics.

I'm assuming this is done as their is one host and everyone has to communicate with the host with night abilities and day abilities?

Yes. The TG client is outdated and I don't have the time or expertise to update it so we will be using Discord instead. There will be a moderator and all the players will dm their abilities to that person. Between phases, there will be a mod time where for the moderator to process the actions.

What time frame we lookin at?
(Like how long does a game go for?)
How long are days/nights/voting phrases?

The phases will be the same as ToS but there will be time between the phases for the moderator to perform actions. As lemonader mentioned, it will be more like ToS than FM since FM requires a long time commitment and the TG was originally meant to emulate ToS. We will likely play multiple games, so I expect the tests to last around an hour with mod time and waiting for enough players.
#SaveTheTG

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby BasicFourLife » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:54 pm

Running tests wasn't the actual problem. The client we used to run those games is extremely outdated and hasn't been updated in +2 years. You physically can't run games on it. And we don't have the coders who want to dedicate their free time for this. So that is the reason they're not happening, ever.
RNG is never good for any strategy based game. Please learn the definition of what that means, especially if you're one of the people constantly defending it.

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby alex1234321 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:12 pm

BasicFourLife wrote:Running tests wasn't the actual problem. The client we used to run those games is extremely outdated and hasn't been updated in +2 years. You physically can't run games on it. And we don't have the coders who want to dedicate their free time for this. So that is the reason they're not happening, ever.


Doesn't mean we can't run tests using other methods
#SaveTheTG

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby CapWarrior2 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:31 am

9 PEOPLE COME ON 1 MORE!
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby alex1234321 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:12 am

The TG is coming back! I will create a post about what we should name the new TG and another one about the days/times that most people are available. Once enough people respond to those polls, we will begin the process of adding new roles.
#SaveTheTG

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby Parallax7 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:59 am

Well, considering all I do is play League and work online, I can definitely make time for some tests and whatnot.

Also. welcome back Alex, it's been years at this point.
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby Ascender » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:39 am

alex1234321 wrote:I spoke to the mods and they mostly seem okay with what we are doing. They don't care if we host games on their Discord server but seem to have completely given up on the TG.

We're almost at 10 players!

you know i did the exact same thing last year right
and it completely blew up
its good youre doing what youre doing, just dont get too optimistic that thisll work for more than a few games
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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby alex1234321 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm

Helicooler wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:I spoke to the mods and they mostly seem okay with what we are doing. They don't care if we host games on their Discord server but seem to have completely given up on the TG.

We're almost at 10 players!

you know i did the exact same thing last year right
and it completely blew up
its good youre doing what youre doing, just dont get too optimistic that thisll work for more than a few games

Did you make a forum post about it? I see that there's been a few attempts to revive the TG, but none that I see on the forums seem to have been very organized. I don't expect this to succeed but I am going to try and hopefully we can get enough people regularly attending tests.
#SaveTheTG

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Re: Testing Grounds Revival

Postby dolphina » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:18 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
Helicooler wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:I spoke to the mods and they mostly seem okay with what we are doing. They don't care if we host games on their Discord server but seem to have completely given up on the TG.

We're almost at 10 players!

you know i did the exact same thing last year right
and it completely blew up
its good youre doing what youre doing, just dont get too optimistic that thisll work for more than a few games

Did you make a forum post about it? I see that there's been a few attempts to revive the TG, but none that I see on the forums seem to have been very organized. I don't expect this to succeed but I am going to try and hopefully we can get enough people regularly attending tests.

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