TG Results Poll

Test roles that have been suggested in simulated gameplay.

TG Results Poll

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:11 pm

I have debated this internally quite a bit and came to the conclusion that we need some sort of formal final verdict for each of the roles that we test. That way, if the devs are ever interested in implementing our roles and concepts (assuming that they don't release a completely new game and abandon ToS), they can easily see which ones the community supports. I plan on running this a little differently from how the old TG ran things, which can be seen here. Since we don't have official balancers, I plan on conducting a monthly poll here to determine whether or not each role cleared testing.

You may vote yes, no, more edits, or more testing for each role. Here is an explanation of each vote:

Yes: The role is balanced and should be added to the game. Roles in this category will not be tested anymore.

No: The role is fundamentally unbalanced and should not be added to the game, even with edits. Roles in this category will not be tested anymore.

More Edits: The role is currently unbalanced but can be fixed with certain changes. Roles in this category will be tested again once suitable modifications are made. Roles being tested for the first time have priority over these roles in testing.

More Testing: The role has not been tested sufficiently. Roles in this category will continue to be tested, but roles being tested for the first time will have priority. Please only choose this option if no conclusions whatsoever can be made about the role based on testing.

All roles will be moved into the more testing category unless a simple majority of voters choose a different option. For example, if 3 people vote yes, 2 people vote no, and 2 people vote more testing, the role will continue being tested because a strong conclusion wasn't reached about the role.

This poll will be open for the cycle following the one when the role was tested. For example, a role that is approved in May and tested in June will be voted on in July. The roles that were tested in February will be voted on until the March testing cycle ends and each role has at least five votes. When choosing which way to vote, please consider your opinion on the role prior to the tests, your experience testing the role, and this thread.

To vote, please use the following format:

/vote [decision] [role/concept name] [author]

You may want to take back a vote that you previously sent. To do so, please use the following format:

/unvote [decision] [role/concept name] [author]

Reasoning is not required to vote, but it is highly encouraged. When changing votes, please unvote and vote for your new choice. If you wish to vote anonymously, please pm alex1234321.

Current Results:
Conqueror by Brilliand 0 2 0 5
Copycat by Ezradekezra 0 3 2 1
Rolestopper by Ezradekezra 3 1 1 1
Stalker by OreCreeper 1 4 0 1

Here are my votes:
/vote yes Framer Buff Capwarrior2 Wasn't really tested, but it rolled and the player did not use the ability, which suggests it isn't super powerful. Still an important buff.
/vote yes Ambusher Rework Paradox12 Also wasn't really tested, but it rolled and the player never used cautious, which suggests that it is more useful early on and not overpowered.
/vote yes Consigliere Buff OreCreeper Helped the player sort out claims during a massclaim while showing that there was a second TP in the game. This is a needed buff.
/vote no Kamikaze alex1234321 Primarily useful in the endgame and can cause one player to completely swing the outcome of the game.
Last edited by alex1234321 on Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Brilliand » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:31 pm

/vote no Framer Buff Capwarrior2 Does not buff the Framer enough. Framer buffs in general need "more edits", but I'd prefer to move on to someone else's framer buff idea rather than tweak this one.
/vote more testing Ambusher Rework Paradox12 Needs to be tested in a large game. The testing showed us that it makes little difference in the lategame, but we still don't know whether it's balanced early on.
/vote more testing Consigliere Buff OreCreeper Needs to be tested in a large game. This is probably a good idea, but I cannot convince myself that it made any difference in that one test game it showed up in.
/vote no Kamikaze alex1234321 Too swingy. This is always a problem with TKs but Kamikaze has it worse than most.
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Ezradekezra » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:11 pm

/vote yes on the Framer buff
/vote yes on the Ambusher buff
/vote yes on the Consigliere buff
/vote no on Kamikaze
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Cookazoo2 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:22 am

/vote no on Framer // CapWarrior2
/vote yes on Ambusher // Paradox12
/vote yes on the Consig Buff // OreCreeper
/vote more edits on the Kamikaze // alex1234321
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:21 am

Brilliand wrote:/vote more testing Consigliere Buff OreCreeper Needs to be tested in a large game. This is probably a good idea, but I cannot convince myself that it made any difference in that one test game it showed up in.


I think it should have made a difference, but the Consig (I don't remember who it was) made a bad decision by attacking the Jailor when they knew there were 2 TPs in the game. The Jailor did end up having a Bodyguard on them, but the Bodyguard was roleblocked by an Escort. I think the Consig should have attacked the Bodyguard there, but they ended up being jailed so that would have failed.

So I do not think the Consig buff made a significant difference on that game, but it would have made a difference (actually it would have been detrimental in this scenario) had the Consig taken advantage of it.
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Brilliand » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:48 pm

alex1234321 wrote:I think it should have made a difference, but the Consig (I don't remember who it was) made a bad decision by attacking the Jailor when they knew there were 2 TPs in the game. The Jailor did end up having a Bodyguard on them, but the Bodyguard was roleblocked by an Escort. I think the Consig should have attacked the Bodyguard there, but they ended up being jailed so that would have failed.


My thought is that the Consig should have known that there were two Bodyguards even without the ability under test. I checked a Bodyguard N1, and confirmed him in open chat the next day. The Consig checked the other Bodyguard a bit later, so as soon as he knew it was a Bodyguard he knew he was finding the second Bodyguard. The only new information the ability under test gave him is that there wasn't a third TP (which would have been unlikely under the rolelist anyway).
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:47 pm

Brilliand wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:I think it should have made a difference, but the Consig (I don't remember who it was) made a bad decision by attacking the Jailor when they knew there were 2 TPs in the game. The Jailor did end up having a Bodyguard on them, but the Bodyguard was roleblocked by an Escort. I think the Consig should have attacked the Bodyguard there, but they ended up being jailed so that would have failed.


My thought is that the Consig should have known that there were two Bodyguards even without the ability under test. I checked a Bodyguard N1, and confirmed him in open chat the next day. The Consig checked the other Bodyguard a bit later, so as soon as he knew it was a Bodyguard he knew he was finding the second Bodyguard. The only new information the ability under test gave him is that there wasn't a third TP (which would have been unlikely under the rolelist anyway).


I didn't see that. Still seems like it could be useful in games without massclaims, which means that it would be more effective in larger games. It might be a good idea to continue testing it but I think we have a decent idea of what the buff does and should focus on things we haven't tested at all.

I'll put up the March roles once we get one more person to vote here so that we have an odd number.
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Convergant » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:46 pm

/vote More Edits Framer Buff Capwarrior2 - still seems incredibly weak
/vote yes Ambusher Rework Paradox12 - I like the idea, seems pretty sound
/vote no Consigliere Buff OreCreeper - consig is very powerful as is, and very fun to play, IMO it's balanced and doesn't need buffing
/vote no Kamikaze alex1234321 - all the current TKs are very powerful as is, there's no need for another one IMO
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby alex1234321 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:17 pm

Here are the final results for the February test roles:

Framer Buff by CapWarrior2 2 4 1 0
Ambusher Rework by Paradox12 4 1 0 2
Consigliere Buff by OreCreeper 3 3 0 1
Kamikaze by alex1234321 0 5 2 0

And here are the official outcomes:
Framer Buff: Removed
Ambusher Rework: Approved
Consigliere Buff: More Testing
Kamikaze: Removed

I will edit the OP and begin the poll for the March test roles shortly!

Edit: I started the new poll. It will continue until the current testing cycle ends.
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby alex1234321 » Sat May 08, 2021 8:16 pm

Nobody has been looking at this so I'm gonna vote.

/vote more testing Conqueror the role wasn't really able to do much in the games where it was tested and just acted like a Serial Killer. I want to see a situation where the healing ability makes a difference.

/vote more edits Copycat I think Ezra's rework is worth a try. Even at night, the more useful roles tend to be harder to kill since they'd usually have TP on them. I'm still skeptical about whether it would work but it would be a good idea to test the rework.

/vote yes Rolestopper The role didn't do much in tests, but there wasn't a single test where the Jailor meta'ed. The name can use a change but that's about it.

/vote no Stalker I don't like independent MK, but I think it could be massively reworked into a Coven role. But it would need much more kill power, maybe like a more limited Electrician. At that point, we might as well make a new role and submit that.
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby runningwiththepower » Sun May 09, 2021 2:39 am

/vote testing Conqueror----i havent really seen it be used all that much to be honest. I am suspecting it could maybe use a buff since its Win Con is a bit difficult to manage but in lieu of that, I will put forward more testing :)

/vote testing Copycat--same ish as above, havent really seen it much in action just yet but I think its pretty balanced actually

/vote yes Rolestopper--it seems pretty fair & useful as is. Of course i wouldnt mind more tests with it :P but I think it is pretty good actually. I second the namechange though. Maybe change it to a name that is someone/something that would scare someone off? like Ghost? but. not Ghost LOL

/vote yes Stalker--Stalker was pretty useful for the Mafia from what I remembered but required some modicum of planning & forethought. I liked it.

Overall, I am pretty content with everything but I wouldnt mind some more tests here & there :P
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby alex1234321 » Sun May 16, 2021 5:41 pm

I will extend the voting for another 48 hours beyond this post. This is the most important part of the TG! Your vote will determine whether we scrap a concept or push for it to be implemented!
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Brilliand » Sun May 16, 2021 6:40 pm

/vote testing Conqueror - Hasn't yet lived up to its potential in a test game
/vote no Copycat - The current version is definitely too weak, and I don't believe that Ezra's proposed rework will be enough to fix it either. There's probably some way to fix it, but I don't want to spend the TG's currently limited bandwidth on that.
/vote testing Rolestopper - Hasn't yet lived up to its potential in a test game
/vote no Stalker - It's interesting, and not really overpowered, but I agree that it's better not to accept an independent MK.

By the way, I think we need approval voting for this thread too - I keep finding myself torn between two options (in this case "no" and "more edits" for Copycat).
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby superdog551 » Sun May 16, 2021 6:43 pm

The only role of this bunch that I tested is the conqueror and I think it seemed pretty fun though I would like to see more of what it can do.

/vote more testing Conqueror

I don't think I should vote on the other roles since I haven't been in a test with them
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Ezradekezra » Sun May 16, 2021 7:05 pm

/vote more testing on Conquerer
/vote yes on Rolestopper
/vote more edits on Copycat
/vote more testing on Stalker
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Royee » Mon May 17, 2021 2:31 am

copycat is fine as forum mafia role and even so, my version of it fixes its issues.
copycat isn't good as tos role. from ne perspective you need a role that's on the par with witch, copycat fails to deliver this.
/vote no on copycat
same goes to conqueror, i would rather bring bomber to tos than conqueror, which imo would fit perfectly fine in fm game.
/vote no on conqueror
rs is okish, needs an edit. and with rs i would rather have marshal too.
/vote edit rs
/vote no on stalker
Last edited by Royee on Mon May 17, 2021 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Royee » Mon May 17, 2021 2:33 am

conqueror might be fine if you let it have rolecop checks
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Re: TG Results Poll

Postby Ezradekezra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:28 pm

I just noticed that I forgot to give Klepto the one-shot shield when writing the RI post

So I vote to give it the same one-shot shield that other true NE roles have
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