Opinions? Player sided inspection

[Mroz4k]

Oh boy cant wait for the amount of shitters making fun of me because of this. Just in case you plan to do that, save your strenght, I dont care. I only want constructive opinions.

I want to get player opinions on an idea I had. Should I bother to do this?

For past month I was trying to dig into the decisionmaking of the Moderators, to see if rules are being upheld, if there are any bias, influencing, if the decisions implemented are too hard or too soft considering the offense, that kind of thing. Didnt find all that much because majority of things I need are said in PMS. Since I am merely a player, I can relate to other players better then the Modteam could, and of course I have no authority or power around these parts - that makes me uniquely capable of being the middle man without any big risks to set some shitstorm argument off. I have ties to both Modteam and players, but I have no strong friends on either side that would be willing to influence me.
I dont want Modteam to handle this themselves because its possible there is bias within the modteam and if thats the case, we would get nowhere. There are very few people Id entrust with this beside myself, and most of them are not even part of the Forums anymore. Hopefully I get at least one of these people to help me with this, so that they control me as well and make sure I am not being biased myself.
I dont intend to set of an argument, so lets keep opinions about this constructive, please.

Any interaction with a Mod that was resulted in an argument, warning or blacklist, you take up with me. You give me ONLY your PMs, and you paraphrase to me how the Moderator responded, and which Moderator that was. I will then go to the Moderator and with your permission, I will confirm your side of story with them, and ask them for their PMs, as well as any other PMs you might have withold to give me.

I intend to cooperate with both players and Mods on equal ground.
I wont be putting much effort into this so dont expect a lot of movement - this will probably be very slow process.

Nothing of this is against the rules as far as I know - granted if the player involved in this situation gives me a permission to dig into it, I should not need permission from FMMods since they represent authority and I should have a right to know how situations are handled officially, since this is a democracy. Mods cant make PMs public or known to anyone else because of protection of privacy of the players - with your permission to get the PMs, Moderators should give them up. They have the same protection of privacy themselves, of course, but that should not apply to official conversation. Refusing to cooperate would only show intention to cover something up.

Whats the point? Equality, balance. I want to make sure no Mods are biased, and that players have some rights as well as Mods and Hosts. Make sure rules are there to protect players, Mods and Hosts, instead of restricting individual group. Get a feeling of how Moderators handle individual situations, and then get my results and take it up with the Modteam to help balance it all out.

This is not my own design. This is basically modified ombudsman. A control feature that double checks everything went through like it should by an unbiased source.

[vorono]

*strength

[ShortcutButton]

Wouldn't this make you or whoever does this judge, jury, and executioner?

Look, the reason we have 6 mods and not one is so this doesn't happen. If you feel you're being biased angainst by a mod you should take it up with another one.

[RetralMega]

Wouldn't this make you or whoever does this judge, jury, and executioner?

Look, the reason we have 6 mods and not one is so this doesn't happen. If you feel you're being biased angainst by a mod you should take it up with another one.

There are seven mods. Derp
Which I like it being an odd number.
If there's ever a controversial report and everyone votes, it can't end up a tie.

So this really isn't needed. They handle things pretty well, imo.

[ShortcutButton]

One of them's a bot and gets no say I assume.

[RetralMega]

One of them's a bot and gets no say I assume.

Oh, well shit.
Maybe Met doesn't participate and he's the Executioner and Judge while the others are the Jury.

[Cyantic]

wouldn't there need to be a cause for this to exist and i don't see any cause other than kmenx/torque's blacklisting which is the only decision a decent sum of players disagreed with

i don't see the point of this at all other then adding legality in a system that doesn't need it

[FMLSheWas12]

[Redacted]

Oh no I've said too much!

[Swordsworth]

What makes you more qualified to do this over any other player?

[RhazhBash]

One of them's a bot and gets no say I assume.

FMBot is a mod too. Don't hurt his feelings :c.

[ShortcutButton]

FMBots a shitter and was picked as a mod because hes brothers with iggy

[ICECLIMBERS]

http://www.metrionbiosciences.com/

They're everywhere.

[Varanus]

It's true though

FMBot did blacklist Kmenx and Torque

[Kmenx]

It's true though

FMBot did blacklist Kmenx and Torque

Can confirm

[Swordsworth]

I don't think a PIC is warranted.

[Mroz4k]

Wouldn't this make you or whoever does this judge, jury, and executioner?

Look, the reason we have 6 mods and not one is so this doesn't happen. If you feel you're being biased angainst by a mod you should take it up with another one.

How is a middle man who has no authority what so ever capable of being judge, jury and executioner?

If a Mod did this, it's possible this would be the case. That's why a regular player is a better fit.

The point is to get to the bottom of problem, if it was handled well or not, and eventually create a profile for all the Mods and how they handle different rules, and how are different rules handled in general. It's to provide feedback for them to improve on, and to improve the rules. For example, after 10 cases of gamethrowing, it would come out that this rule is not handled seriously enough - there you have a feedback for mods to improve on.

And you actually touched down on a big problem - the "have a problem with a Mod, turn to another". This is not smart solution as it can create friction in the modteam. It's actually a big problem that different mods handle same situations differently. Point of this is to visualize these differences and remove them.

"I think I am not biassed so, I can't be biassed."

-Mroz 2016

That's not what I said. Besides, I've done this before a few years back on these forums. I know I can stay unbiased, I've done it before.

[Varanus]

And you actually touched down on a big problem - the "have a problem with a Mod, turn to another". This is not smart solution as it can create friction in the modteam. It's actually a big problem that different mods handle same situations differently. Point of this is to visualize these differences and remove them.

Kappa

[Swordsworth]

What makes you more qualified to do this over any other player?

[Mroz4k]

What makes you more qualified to do this over any other player?

I've done it before. Twice in fact, once here on the forums, in the days of the Gmod lady trio.

I don't play sides. Naturally I have my own opinion on things, but like I said, I doubt I'd be doing this alone. I'd take another person, who would be observing me as well as I'd be observing them, for triple check.

I don't have good friends in the modteam, and Im neutral with everyone, friend or foe.

I can see things from different perspectives and I have a talent for noticing details others overlook.

[TrueGent]

This is not smart solution as it can create friction in the modteam.

Thats not even true

[Mroz4k]

This is not smart solution as it can create friction in the modteam.

Thats not even true

I said it can. Not that it will. I'm guessing Mods are reasonable, mature people, so I don't think it's likely. But it's not impossible, especially since it seems to me Mods have very different opinions on solving certain things. Collision of opinions is not impossible.

[Swordsworth]

Today I learned that the mod team was a democracy

Memes aside, I really don't think a relative PIC is necessary. If you feel your case was handled badly, you could expose it to the community or even go above the FM Mods to TurdPile, who has executive handle on all parts of the forum, period. The fact that there's only been at most a couple of decisions handled in a way that can be considered bad by the community in the past 2 years is pretty good. There isn't really a need.

[Mroz4k]

Today I learned that the mod team was a democracy

Memes aside, I really don't think a relative PIC is necessary. If you feel your case was handled badly, you could expose it to the community or even go above the FM Mods to TurdPile, who has executive handle on all parts of the forum, period. The fact that there's only been at most a couple of decisions handled in a way that can be considered bad by the community in the past 2 years is pretty good. There isn't really a need.

Sure, we could do that. And get those Mods into trouble. What would be the point? They are reasonable people, that's why they are Mods after all.

I'd say it would be better to use individual cases as a guidelines to help them decrease the gaps in differences. It's kind of like American law - use one case to refer to another. This would be less invasive method then going up to the higher ups.

Plus, having the mods forced wouldn't help repair the rules which might be poorly designed and the true cause of the problem. Talking it out is always better.

[Swordsworth]

I don't quite understand what you're getting at here. You're saying that the FM Mods should be inspected by an "impartial third party," and yet you're against bringing to light perceived issues with policy, including what may possibly amount to borderline power abuse and corruption? It doesn't even have to go to TP; it's a matter of telling people what happened and why.

[Arckas]

If you feel your case was handled badly, you could expose it to the community

But don't because this makes everything worse and a mess.


Got a case you believe is valid, it's best to go straight up the chain and give it to the head lead FM mod Metrion, though if you think that isn't impartial too, admin TurdPile.


I believe Mroz4k wants to establish a system of a third party. One that can review and judge actions of the FM mod team and report them. Notice that this party doesn't act on their decision, just report.


To those saying the system will become corrupt and people will abuse the power of this third party and only serve to help them and ruin the player base of FM--- The power this party has is literally to tell TurdPile something is up. They don't even get to make the decision and do what they think is best, TurdPile makes that call.