Opinions? Player sided inspection

[Swordsworth]

I don't quite understand what you're getting at here. You're saying that the FM Mods should be inspected by an "impartial third party," and yet you're against bringing to light perceived issues with policy, including what may possibly amount to borderline power abuse and corruption? It doesn't even have to go to TP; it's a matter of telling people what happened and why.

[Arckas]

If you feel your case was handled badly, you could expose it to the community

But don't because this makes everything worse and a mess.


Got a case you believe is valid, it's best to go straight up the chain and give it to the head lead FM mod Metrion, though if you think that isn't impartial too, admin TurdPile.


I believe Mroz4k wants to establish a system of a third party. One that can review and judge actions of the FM mod team and report them. Notice that this party doesn't act on their decision, just report.


To those saying the system will become corrupt and people will abuse the power of this third party and only serve to help them and ruin the player base of FM--- The power this party has is literally to tell TurdPile something is up. They don't even get to make the decision and do what they think is best, TurdPile makes that call.

[Santa07]

Sounds like you're implying the mods are biased

Hint: the mods aren't biased

They set the rules, they get to enforce the rules. It's a fair system that doesn't need anyone to help. If someone has a problem with their rules then they're obviously in the wrong place because the mods are the people running this and they don't need anyone else to help them enforce something that was set by them.

The mods are chosen because they're unbiased, a third party has a much larger chance of being biased compared to the mods which are carefully selected.

[Neasans]

I don't get it.

Like, lol, you imply they might be biased then say they're reasonable people? You've also been presented with the alternative of contacting TP or just saying it if you feel something is wrong.

Seems to me like you're suggestion some sort of auditing of the FM Mods? Don't see the point. As it's been said, pretty much the only thing that's widely disagreed with in their history is the Kmenx/Torque blacklist.

There really isn't a reason to have someone do what you say. There really isn't anything that warrants giving anyone that sort of power or authority. There's really no point to it other than just giving someone power they might not be fit to have just so that they can "be a third party" here, it's just an overly-complex solution to an unclear "problem" that might not even exist, and in general seems like way more trouble than what it's worth.

[Cyantic]

We shouldn't even joke about going to TP.

[Varanus]

Alright guys
Meme is over

We can stop leading him on

[chitownmvp01]

I'm not voting because I don't care about this, but I find it to be funny that this topic exists because there is a forum rule about dealing with moderator's decisions that you don't like.

13. Do not post in an attempt to bait the Moderators.
If you don't like the way a Moderator has handled a situation in the past, take it up with them in a Private Message, especially if it concerns you, specifically, and do not post about it in the forums in an attempt to cause issues with the staff. If you cannot resolve the issue with the Moderator, message another trusted Moderator, or as a last-resort, message TurdPile and let them handle it. Like with Rule 7, don't take issues in Private Messages to the public forum. If you do so, your post will be deleted, and you will be messaged or publicly warned, telling you to keep it in PMs. Punishments for further infringing content coincides with Rule 7

I bolded and underlined the key part of the rule that pertains to this topic.

[RockFire]

To clarify, when a person breaks a rule the first thing that happens is all moderators are informed. The person bringing up the situation shares the details about what has been occuring and what lead up to the rule being broken. From there, we all confer about which rules have been broken.

Then, we decide on a punishment, on whether or not a person deserves a warning, and it's noted down. We all agree on it, if it should be an official warning, or an unoffical that says that they need to stop. Everyone agrees on the final decision.

A blacklist or a ban doesn't just occur. It's discussed by all of us. The circumstances are taken into account as well and this process takes time. We all agree on it and that the punishment fits the rules broken.

Lastly, a message is sent out informing the person and they're given an opportunity to defend themselves. Sometimes, the punishment is changed. Once, we were lacking all of the information and the punishment was reversed.

Look, it isn't fun being punished. In FM, things can get heated, but rulebreaking ruins the game. The rules are there for a reason. When adding a new rule, it's done so to make the game better and it's something all mods once again agree on.

There's no rogue mod. There's no mod bias. There's no mod abuse. There's checks and balances. If anyone is worried that there is some sort of mod abuse, then they go to TP or the GMods. We're here to make the game better and not to punish people. And we sometimes have to blacklist people to prevent the game or community from becoming toxic or harming others.

We all do this as a collective group and it is done to ensure we make reasonable decisions.

[chitownmvp01]

Tbh I've always thought that it was obvious that all the FM Mods discussed punishments, not just 1 deciding on it.

[Varanus]

There's no rogue mod.

FMBot

[TheCow]

I'm going to inact this when I get made FM Mod.

[Swordsworth]

inact

[Mroz4k]

To clarify, when a person breaks a rule the first thing that happens is all moderators are informed. The person bringing up the situation shares the details about what has been occuring and what lead up to the rule being broken. From there, we all confer about which rules have been broken.

Then, we decide on a punishment, on whether or not a person deserves a warning, and it's noted down. We all agree on it, if it should be an official warning, or an unoffical that says that they need to stop. Everyone agrees on the final decision.

A blacklist or a ban doesn't just occur. It's discussed by all of us. The circumstances are taken into account as well and this process takes time. We all agree on it and that the punishment fits the rules broken.

Lastly, a message is sent out informing the person and they're given an opportunity to defend themselves. Sometimes, the punishment is changed. Once, we were lacking all of the information and the punishment was reversed.

Look, it isn't fun being punished. In FM, things can get heated, but rulebreaking ruins the game. The rules are there for a reason. When adding a new rule, it's done so to make the game better and it's something all mods once again agree on.

There's no rogue mod. There's no mod bias. There's no mod abuse. There's checks and balances. If anyone is worried that there is some sort of mod abuse, then they go to TP or the GMods. We're here to make the game better and not to punish people. And we sometimes have to blacklist people to prevent the game or community from becoming toxic or harming others.

We all do this as a collective group and it is done to ensure we make reasonable decisions.

If this was how it really worked, it would be really nice. Yet I am well aware that this is not the case, because if it was, I would not have received the permanent NFM blacklist in a fashion I had. That being an honest mistake or not is not important - it was a decision made by a single FMMod, it was done without previous warning, official or non official, it was a permanent blacklist from specific FM gametype, it was non appealable, and no evidence was presented during it, only based on what accusation it was made, and a vague mention that I have been reported for this at least 10 times. When I appealed it anyways, Metrion admitted he had no idea this happened. So dont talk to me about "we discuss every decision together".

That issue was still not resolved, by the way (and I am aware that there are new NFM rules nowadays, that doesnt change the fact that I have a right for an apology for this mistreatment, at the very least).

Whats worse is that I dont think the particular FMModerator made that decision on their own - I believe they were influenced, knowingly or not, to do it, by a certain someone who is not even a part of FMmod team, possibly along with another FMModerator pal of his who also holds bias.

And then there is the question of unequal treatment. My recent blacklist extension is a perfect proof of that - to those who dont know, I recently got an extended blacklist because I sent a few tips to the living players in the SFM, where I was dead Mafia member. Nobody bothered to look at what those PMs said, I was just blacklisted. Also incidentally a day or so after this thread was made, without any prior mention that there was a discussion on this matter even beforehand. To those who dont know, second blacklist/blacklist extension also means you are forbidden from posting in the FM Discussions entirely.
Sounds all very convinient if you ask me - considering nobody bothered to look into if those PMs were even bad at all.

At the same time, nobody did anything about two other players who also "discussed an ongoing game" - despite they clearly stated they were, and on much, much heavier scale then I ever even could. LeadFMModerator was notified of this - yet it was never resolved. These two players happen to be very close to the whole Modteam, close friends.

So lets not play a game of cat and mouse where you claim that you are all unbiased and perfect - it is not very difficult to find publicly accesible example of how the Moderator team bends the rules that are there to protect the players. To me it seems more like they are there to control the players instead. Thats exactly what needs to be changed. Also, I was given permission to contribute in this thread specifically.

[mihail66]

Whats worse is that I dont think the particular FMModerator made that decision on their own - I believe they were influenced, knowingly or not, to do it, by a certain someone who is not even a part of FMmod team, possibly along with another FMModerator pal of his who also holds bias.

Also, isn't using your admin or mod privileges to check people's PMs invading of privacy or at least an immoral thing to do?

[JazzMusicStops]

Moderators cannot read private messages

also I'm questioning how Mroz allegedly knows more about the FM Mod team that an actual Mod

[chitownmvp01]

Giving advice to living players via PMs after you died doesn't seem like a wise choice.

[Swordsworth]

You deserve an apology for mistreatment on a case that you were allegedly reported 10 distinct times for?

If you want to prove a point, stop faffing about with uncertain identities in examples. It makes you sound as though you're just making it up.

Asking for them to look into the PMs you sent to living players while dead is akin to asking the airport security to see that there's no ammo in the real, live assault weapon you attempted to smuggle through security. What you said doesn't matter. It's breaking the rules, regardless. You yourself have admitted to coaching said players in these PMs, falling directly under ongoing game discussion.

Edit: and I'm pretty sure that you're allowed to converse with the host about the game you're in. It's called "ranting to the host". If the host gives information in return, then it's something illegal and the fault of the host. But it's no different than ranting to a spectator.

[melanora]

This thread was initially made with a proposition to change the procedures of the moderator team. What has happened is that this thread has gone entirely off topic and is now being used as a place for you to insult, complain, and bait the moderator team. If you would like to discuss your current predicament, you can do so by appealing the most recent decision. If you have a question about occured with NFM, I am happy to clarify it privately. Otherwise, this thread is done. No moderator decisions will be discussed publicly.