Do you find normal FM a little too easy? Too relaxing? Do you think TPower is just too OP? Is "Talk FM fixes to me, baby" just a normal phrase for you? This may be the pitch for you.
The original idea was about fixing FM, but it could probably be best described as this - fixing the Mayor. That's not something you hear everyday, is it? Mayor is fairly generic, not exactly being 'unique' or 'different' as a role. Town Killing (Vigilante, Veteran) can easily prove themselves with their deathnotes, and Town Power claims are whispered to them once they prove themselves via a deathnote or jail, a trail, or reviving. Now, Retributionist is it's own separate thing and will come away with a proven Town member, but surely, we can make Mayor unique and make it the only role that's easy to prove, right?
Possibly.
Here's a list of proposed changes.
Remove Town Deathnotes. This, as briefly touched on before, means that Town Killing roles cannot easily prove themselves. This makes proving themselves harder and helps the mafia and Neutral Killings out a decent bit. The Vet can be proven by an updated will still, but it makes it much harder for a Town Killing to be proven. The Jailor also loses his deathnote, making it a slight bit harder for him to be confirmed.
Allow Agent/Spy to tap at any time during the day. This is just a sensible buff to allow the Agent to collect mass whisper claims at any time, making there be a trade off on when to reveal. Also removes silly 24 hour limit of waiting for the Agent's tap to go to waste. Since Spy is the counterpart, it only makes sense to include it.
Remove Stalker. Stalker is a fairly bad Neutral Killing and it can't really keep up with Serial Killer and Arsonist. It's not destructive like the Bomber, and while it does bypass almost all protection, it takes too long and is hard to win with.
Framer and Disguiser will be taken from Vale's 7C fixings. Framer and Disguiser are essentially the same thing as a role, just for different investigatives. Framer is essentially merged with Disguiser, and Disguiser received a totally new ability, strengthening the mafia.
Underboss added. This makes Jailor a lot harder to confirm.
ROLE LIST Town Investigative Town Protective Town Protective Town Killing Town Support Random Town Random Town Random Town Citizen Citizen Citizen Citizen Citizen does not have an extra chance to roll in Random Town.
Spoiler:We will be using the card Metrion and ValeforRaine will be using in future games : Lawyer 1, as proposed here.
Lawyer
(This role is still in the experimental stages ~ It will not yet appear in Episodes for the time being.)
You are a Lawyer
Your alignment is Town Power
Celebrated around the county as a true defender of justice, you were widely known for your ability to see fair verdicts to the end. It is now time you realize that your power is exactly what the town needs to see the right people punished.
During the day you may select a player, that night the player then can optionally write a 1000 character affidavit which will be sent to you. You may hold on to the affidavit yourself or submit it to the town and it will be posted completely anonymously. You may also pm your moderator during the day to start a trial, when a majority is reached on a player it will be announced that you have entered the gallows and a trial has begun. During a trial you can communicate with the town anonymously via two 1000 character limit messages for your opening/closing arguments. Within 24 hours, the players must send a vote of /Guilty or /Not Guilty to the Game Moderator. Your vote counts as three in trials. At the end of the Trial, regardless of the verdict, the Day Phase will end. During your trials, you may also swap defendants, or force a verdict. You may only do each of these once and they can be used together. You may do this only three times. You can also perform this power on yourself. The only exception is the lynch of a Jester, this will cause your trial to fail, swapping defendants to a Jester will force them to haunt the Lawyer the next night. Players may not whisper during trials.
You win with the Town You win with Survivors You must kill the Mafia You must kill Arsonists You must kill Witches You must kill Serial Killers You must kill Stalkers You must kill Bombers You may spare anyone else.
Spy
You are a Spy.
Your alignment is Town Investigative.
You were once used in battle with the goal of gaining information about enemy tactics. You were able to retire young, having gained the support of the military who in turn paid you very handsomely. However, your stay in the town of Salem does not remain the peaceful retirement you once envisioned due to the Mafia invasion.
You can choose one player to spy on during the day and hear all whispers that player has sent to others. You may decide who to spy on at any point during the day. You also have the ability to see who the Mafia visit at night. You will not know what Mafia role visited which player; all you will know is that they were visited by a member of the Mafia.
You win with the Town You win with Survivors You must kill the Mafia You must kill Arsonists You must kill Witches You must kill Serial Killers You must kill Stalkers You must kill Bombers You may spare anyone else
Marshal card is from game 6G. Marshal
You are a Marshal
Your alignment is Town Protective.
Once a figurehead of the law, you experienced a horrific accident and have vowed not to kill anymore. Instead you decide to use your presence as a deterrent to these thugs that have rooted themselves in your hometown.
Each night you may choose to follow a player. Your presence scares one malicious person from targeting them. You will be informed if you protected your target from any role with the exception of Mafia Deception, and whoever you scare away will be notified regardless of their role. Should your target be visited by multiple people with malicious intent, only one will flee. (Mafia Deception > Witch/Escort/Consort > Killing Roles) Unless you are successful, guarding a player twice in a row will allow killing roles to slip through. Stalker's ignore your presence as they fear nothing.
You win with the Town You win with Survivors You must kill the Mafia You must kill Arsonists You must kill Witches You must kill Serial Killers You must kill Stalkers You must kill Bombers You may spare anyone else
Mafia Spoiler:Underboss
You are the Underboss.
Your alignment is Mafia Head.
You've been sent here with a small group by the Godfather, a mission to take Salem over. You're the second in command and have learned much from the Godfather and your life on the streets. One thing the seperates you from your superior, and you're especially proud of, is your "hands on" approach with your job.
Every day, you may choose to jail somebody. To Jail somebody, you must message your Moderator during the day telling them who you would like to Jail. If you do not do this before the day is over - you jail no one. You may jail mafia. However, jailed mafia will be roleblocked and will not be able to see Mafia Chat. The prisoner will be allowed a 1000 character limit to share a defense with you. If you jail somebody, they will be roleblocked, and can not use their night ability. However, all night actions fail against your target, unless they are someone with an Investigative or Protective night ability. If you execute somebody, they will be roleblocked and killed. This does not ignore night immunity. Only you or a Mafioso may kill at night. While you look like a Jailor to your prisoner, your kills will still look like the Mafia's. You can be jailed by the jailor - this causes your own jailing to fail. If you jail the jailor's target, your execution will fail if attempted.
You win with the Mafia You win with Survivors You win with Witches You must kill the Town You must kill Arsonists You must kill Serial Killers You must kill Stalkers You must kill Bombers You may spare anyone else
Agent
You are an Agent.
Your alignment is Mafia Support.
You were a brilliant Spy in your early days, one of the best in the country. However, on one mission, you were captured - by the Godfather. To your great surprise, he wanted to help you retire after all your years of service. The deal was simple. Use your talents to collect sensitive information from the Town, and he will rule to grant you whatever you want in this silly little town.
You may choose one player to spy on during the day phase. This will allow you to hear both whispers they send and receive. You may decide who to spy on at any point during the day. Each night, you also have the ability to plant a bug on a person. The bug will allow you to see who they visit that night, or if they do at all. If there are no capable Mafia roles left, your role will become that of Mafioso. You can communicate with your allies each night, for as long as they are alive.
Your allies are [x] the [role], and [x] the [role]
You win with the Mafia You win with Survivors You win with Witches You must kill the Town You must kill Arsonists You must kill Serial Killers You must kill Stalkers You must kill Bombers You may spare anyone else
Framer
You are a Framer.
Your alignment is Mafia Deception.
You are a framer, skilled at forging documents. With your skill, the Mafia was glad to hire you in exchange for your services.
Each night you have the ability to frame one player of your choice. If they're inspected by the Sheriff that night, it'll say they're a Mafia member. You may also choose which role they appear as should they be inspected by the Investigator. If there are no other kill capable Mafia players left, your role will become that of a Mafioso. You can communicate with your allies each night, for as long as they are alive.
Your allies are [x] the [role], [x] the [role], and [x] the [role].
You win with the Mafia You win with Survivors You win with Witches You must kill the Town You must kill Arsonists You must kill Serial Killers You must kill Stalkers You must kill Bombers You may spare anyone else
Disguiser
(This role is still in the experimental stages ~ It will not yet appear in Episodes for the time being.)
You are a Disguiser.
Your alignment is Mafia Deception.
You were a once great actor lured into the Mafia with the promise of fortune and a chance for a final performance. You can fool the most observant people with your costumes and antics.
Every night you may visit two players swapping all of their investigative results. The only investigative role who will not be fooled is the Sheriff, so watch out! If there are no other kill capable Mafia players left, your role will become that of a Mafioso. You can communicate with your allies each night, for as long as they are alive.
Your allies are [x] the [role], [x] the [role], and [x] the [role].
You win with the Mafia You win with Survivors You win with Witches You must kill the Town You must kill Arsonists You must kill Serial Killers You must kill Stalkers You must kill Bombers You may spare anyone else
Town deathnotes needs to be removed in original game too, its far too easy for people to confirm.
I agree stalker is UP, so im fine with that decision.
Agent/Spy thing is ok for me.
I checked the framer/disguiser changes, and i pretty like the buffs.
Underboss, maybe. Im still in doubt, but seems OK to me.
Underboss should not be rolled with jailor in game. Jailor shouldnt be rolled in underboss in game too. But i think one of them should must be rolled. ^just a suggestion.
EdmundMcGaben wrote:It seems a fairly good pitch imo.
Town deathnotes needs to be removed in original game too, its far too easy for people to confirm.
I agree stalker is UP, so im fine with that decision.
Agent/Spy thing is ok for me.
I checked the framer/disguiser changes, and i pretty like the buffs.
Underboss, maybe. Im still in doubt, but seems OK to me.
Underboss should not be rolled with jailor in game. Jailor shouldnt be rolled in underboss in game too. But i think one of them should must be rolled. ^just a suggestion.
Voted yes.
Underboss is made to be a counterpart. It's kind of like have only Escort or Consort rolled in a game.
dota2reporter wrote:what about new investigation results? Where underboss is put in invest results? who is in nafia head?
Somehow all the people I asked to review it + Nelly and I missed the fact that we don't have investigation results. Once Nelly wakes up, we'll work on them. Mafia Head is Godfather and Underboss.
I voted no. The investigator results are just too bad for me.
Bomber/Jester/Phantom? Absolutely cruel. Amnesiac/Survivor? Lynch to be safe. Doctor/Godfather/Serial Killer? Once a doctor confirms himself, the scum in this result is screwed.
LeScraf wrote:I voted no. The investigator results are just too bad for me.
Bomber/Jester/Phantom? Absolutely cruel. Amnesiac/Survivor? Lynch to be safe. Doctor/Godfather/Serial Killer? Once a doctor confirms himself, the scum in this result is screwed.
I told Cyantic to pull from my Underboss pitch. I'm surprised just now someone has a problem with them. Survivor/Amnesiac and Bomber/Jester/Phantom are/were existing investigation results, for reference I suppose. Also, you're saying like that doctor is unique. It isn't, and it gives Godfather something to claim that isn't citizen. I did want to move Bomber with survivor/amnesiac to let it claim benign...but no confirmed neutral benign made it risky so Cyantic kept it as is.
LeScraf wrote:I voted no. The investigator results are just too bad for me.
Bomber/Jester/Phantom? Absolutely cruel. Amnesiac/Survivor? Lynch to be safe. Doctor/Godfather/Serial Killer? Once a doctor confirms himself, the scum in this result is screwed.
I told Cyantic to pull from my Underboss pitch. I'm surprised just now someone has a problem with them. Survivor/Amnesiac and Bomber/Jester/Phantom are/were existing investigation results, for reference I suppose. Also, you're saying like that doctor is unique. It isn't, and it gives Godfather something to claim that isn't citizen. I did want to move Bomber with survivor/amnesiac to let it claim benign...but no confirmed neutral benign made it risky so Cyantic kept it as is.
To be fair, I never really looked at your Underboss pitch. The only time I looked at it was for karma tracker.
By the time doctor can confirm itself like Metrion did in CFM 5, the chances for another Doctor are slim/impossible, hence scum being outed.
Those other two results are cruel as hell. Mind pointing me to the games they were used in?
LeScraf wrote:I voted no. The investigator results are just too bad for me.
Bomber/Jester/Phantom? Absolutely cruel. Amnesiac/Survivor? Lynch to be safe. Doctor/Godfather/Serial Killer? Once a doctor confirms himself, the scum in this result is screwed.
I told Cyantic to pull from my Underboss pitch. I'm surprised just now someone has a problem with them. Survivor/Amnesiac and Bomber/Jester/Phantom are/were existing investigation results, for reference I suppose. Also, you're saying like that doctor is unique. It isn't, and it gives Godfather something to claim that isn't citizen. I did want to move Bomber with survivor/amnesiac to let it claim benign...but no confirmed neutral benign made it risky so Cyantic kept it as is.
To be fair, I never really looked at your Underboss pitch. The only time I looked at it was for karma tracker.
By the time doctor can confirm itself like Metrion did in CFM 5, the chances for another Doctor are slim/impossible, hence scum being outed.
Those other two results are cruel as hell. Mind pointing me to the games they were used in?
Two Town Protectives, three Random Town. Town Protective has been known as the 'scum haven' for a good reason. Getting a successful protect off isn't the easiest thing in the world. In fact, why aren't you complaining about the Arsonist/Trans/BG result too, since it's also Protective Invest result? In fact, SK/Doc is by far the most common result, and there hasn't been problems with it, which is also another scum role. I'm not necessarily happy with the 'Bomber/Jester/Phantom' result, but I couldn't find any where else to move it. If you've got any advice on where to put it, I'd love to hear it. Amnesiac/Survivor is just two neutral benigns grouped together. I'm not sure how that's cruel.
Due to how weak town was, we decided on an invest result that wasn't something as easy Cit/GF. It's still a fairly easy claim for GF.
LeScraf wrote:To be fair, I never really looked at your Underboss pitch. The only time I looked at it was for karma tracker.
By the time doctor can confirm itself like Metrion did in CFM 5, the chances for another Doctor are slim/impossible, hence scum being outed.
Those other two results are cruel as hell. Mind pointing me to the games they were used in?
Fair, I guess.
What Met did in cfm5 was just a mix of luck and skill. Not every doctor will be able to prove themself like that. For example, 5E. Stella didn't get confirmed until day 3, maybe ? Something like that, and we still had at least one more protective floating around (thought it was Neasans, was actually Brainothon the bodyguard). I was bodyguard who got confirmed day 2 but that's only enforcing two doctors can be possible. Also, there were I think three marshals in 6E. So yeah. :P
Your target watches over people at night. They must be a Lookout, Marshal, or Witch Your target is very educated about the human body! They must be a Doctor, Godfather, or Serial Killer. Your target is a loner. They must be an Amnesiac or Survivor.
So you give witch super easy claim space, but GF and SK are in hot water from the get-go. Anyone with that result will be watched like a hawk and any scum in that category will be outed through town actions. One's not scum heavy enough, the other's waaaaay too scum heavy.
I just hate amne/survivor. A lot. It's way too easy for them to be confirmed and sit around doing nothing, as useless survivors often do.
I take minor issue with bomber/jester/phantom (which I'm steering away from, myself) since two of those want to be lynched and bomber doesn't. Behavior would probably give away a bomber fast and they're outed when a vig finds them immune.
Honestly, none of these alone are an issue, but as one set of results it looks like a mess. Also, just because something was/is used in a game doesn't make the result good. By that logic, trans/arso is fine.
Sing something new, I have nothing left, I can't face the dark without you. There's nothing left to lose, the fight never ends, I can't face the dark without you.
Holding the hand that holds me down. I forgive you, forget you, the end.
If one were to compare the Underboss to the Godfather while the Underboss has detection immunity, it would be a difference of a Night action capable of Protecting/Roleblocking a target vs night immunity. Detection immunity pushes Underboss over the edge, and removing it is for the best.
Kirize12 wrote:Also, Town Power were meant to easily confirm themselves. The Underboss would make Jailor unconfirmable, we may as well move it to Town Killing.
Underboss was added to make Jailor harder to confirm, as stated in the OP...
Kirize12 wrote:Also, Town Power were meant to easily confirm themselves. The Underboss would make Jailor unconfirmable, we may as well move it to Town Killing.
Underboss was added to make Jailor harder to confirm, as stated in the OP...
It's not harder to confirm. It's impossible to confirm. Tell me, how can one tell the difference between the Jailor and the Underboss?
Execute is a difference. An Underboss execute would show up as mafia, while a Jailor wouldn't.
I would also beg to differ and say that Town Powers are not made to easily confirm themselves, but are actually a group of the most powerful roles in the game. Thus, the title Town Power.
Kirize12 wrote:Also, Town Power were meant to easily confirm themselves. The Underboss would make Jailor unconfirmable, we may as well move it to Town Killing.
Underboss was added to make Jailor harder to confirm, as stated in the OP...
It's not harder to confirm. It's impossible to confirm. Tell me, how can one tell the difference between the Jailor and the Underboss?
How can one tell the difference between an Investigator and a Consigliere ? How can one tell the difference between an Escort and a Consort ?
Point is, this pitch is trying to hinder the already powerful town to give team evil a bit more strength.
But, to answer the three questions: sheriff. No sheriff ? Reads, evaluate targets, analyzing.
Nellyfox wrote:Underboss was added to make Jailor harder to confirm, as stated in the OP...
It's not harder to confirm. It's impossible to confirm. Tell me, how can one tell the difference between the Jailor and the Underboss?
Execute is a difference. An Underboss execute would show up as mafia, while a Jailor wouldn't.
I would also beg to differ and say that Town Powers are not made to easily confirm themselves, but are actually a group of the most powerful roles in the game. Thus, the title Town Power.
Whats the point of removing the death note then They'll just order him to execute a obvious scum
![[Forum Mafia V] Winner](./images/ranks/flair-fm5.png "[Forum Mafia V] Winner")
![[Forum Mafia XIX] Winner](./images/ranks/flair-fm19.png "[Forum Mafia XIX] Winner")
![[Forum Mafia XII] Winner](./images/ranks/flair-fm12.png "[Forum Mafia XII] Winner")
