Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby Santa07 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:24 am

This is a really neat idea. :D
Last edited by Santa07 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby hippophant » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:57 pm

I've slightly updated the pitch. The Sorceress' blessings are now showcased on the Features section, similar to the Investigation and Trailing results, for easy access.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby TheCow » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:16 am

I'm surprised that twenty four people would vote yes on this pitch and not point out the fact that this 30 player game only has 28 roles on the role list.

As it stands, the game is 18-5-5. Town currently starts with an 8 player majority, with 3 confirmed town powers. At first glance, one might think that this game would be an utter stomping, with Town sweeping Mafia and Neutrals mercilessly, but they would be wrong. No, Neutrals would still get utterly destroyed, but really there is still Mafia to deal with.

Mafia can summon a new player off of the back up queue each night. These newly summoned players are confirmed as Mafia. One might think "oh, no big deal, let's just lynch them". Well, each night a new member of the Mafia is added to the game, and each day the Town is forced to lynch them. Fast forward to day five, and the Mafia Bomber uses their ability, and Mafia wins.

One could argue "the Hero would save the day! They can wipe the mafia just as easily!" That is not really the case, as they summon half as often as the Mafia, and therefore may only sweep the mafia twice as far into the game. In short, this game is impossible for Town to win, unless by some twist of fate, they manage to Vig/Jailor their way through legions of summoned Mafia.

What happens if Vampire bites a TPw?
With their current win condition why would they not become a witch?

Sorceress can confirm themselves very easily.
Lynching-Mob is a weak. It requires three people to visit their target, which means you're wasting several ability uses to use this ability.

Gambler wrote:RNGsus Take the wheel


I'm voting no. Even after the issues on the summoning system are fixed I think this game is impossible to run. It would require something like 37 players to run in all, which is more than games on this site can handle.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby SwedishLemon » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:02 pm

TheCow wrote:I'm surprised that twenty four people would vote yes on this pitch and not point out the fact that this 30 player game only has 28 roles on the role list.

As it stands, the game is 18-5-5. Town currently starts with an 8 player majority, with 3 confirmed town powers. At first glance, one might think that this game would be an utter stomping, with Town sweeping Mafia and Neutrals mercilessly, but they would be wrong. No, Neutrals would still get utterly destroyed, but really there is still Mafia to deal with.

Mafia can summon a new player off of the back up queue each night. These newly summoned players are confirmed as Mafia. One might think "oh, no big deal, let's just lynch them". Well, each night a new member of the Mafia is added to the game, and each day the Town is forced to lynch them. Fast forward to day five, and the Mafia Bomber uses their ability, and Mafia wins.

One could argue "the Hero would save the day! They can wipe the mafia just as easily!" That is not really the case, as they summon half as often as the Mafia, and therefore may only sweep the mafia twice as far into the game. In short, this game is impossible for Town to win, unless by some twist of fate, they manage to Vig/Jailor their way through legions of summoned Mafia.

What happens if Vampire bites a TPw?
With their current win condition why would they not become a witch?

Sorceress can confirm themselves very easily.
Lynching-Mob is a weak. It requires three people to visit their target, which means you're wasting several ability uses to use this ability.

Gambler wrote:RNGsus Take the wheel


I'm voting no. Even after the issues on the summoning system are fixed I think this game is impossible to run. It would require something like 37 players to run in all, which is more than games on this site can handle.

Well in Hippo's defense, the mafia can only summon as many units as there are peasants in the game. :)

also, I don't see how sorceress is confirmed very easily. It's not like their target is informed that they're blessed.

But I'll let Hippo handle these.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby TheCow » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:16 pm

It seems I misunderstood the Mafia's conversion, so I shall reevaluate it. What was said previously, is generally still applicable, though another problem arises. By converting Town to Mafia, this acts as a voting power change of 2 in all, in terms of Mafia, without lowering the majority. Combined with a Mafia kill, it is a voting power change of 3, and lowers the requirement for Majority. This is even more powerful than what I had originally expected, as it acts as a second kill, in a way, yet more powerful as such.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby hippophant » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:10 pm

TheCow wrote:I'm surprised that twenty four people would vote yes on this pitch and not point out the fact that this 30 player game only has 28 roles on the role list.

As it stands, the game is 18-5-5. Town currently starts with an 8 player majority, with 3 confirmed town powers. At first glance, one might think that this game would be an utter stomping, with Town sweeping Mafia and Neutrals mercilessly, but they would be wrong. No, Neutrals would still get utterly destroyed, but really there is still Mafia to deal with.

Mafia can summon a new player off of the back up queue each night. These newly summoned players are confirmed as Mafia. One might think "oh, no big deal, let's just lynch them". Well, each night a new member of the Mafia is added to the game, and each day the Town is forced to lynch them. Fast forward to day five, and the Mafia Bomber uses their ability, and Mafia wins.

One could argue "the Hero would save the day! They can wipe the mafia just as easily!" That is not really the case, as they summon half as often as the Mafia, and therefore may only sweep the mafia twice as far into the game. In short, this game is impossible for Town to win, unless by some twist of fate, they manage to Vig/Jailor their way through legions of summoned Mafia.

What happens if Vampire bites a TPw?
With their current win condition why would they not become a witch?

Sorceress can confirm themselves very easily.
Lynching-Mob is a weak. It requires three people to visit their target, which means you're wasting several ability uses to use this ability.

Gambler wrote:RNGsus Take the wheel


I'm voting no. Even after the issues on the summoning system are fixed I think this game is impossible to run. It would require something like 37 players to run in all, which is more than games on this site can handle.


I don't see how Sorceress is easy to confirm, or how the Lynch Mob is weak. Those targeted by a sorceress are not informed of the boost to their abilities, an investigator sees her as witch, and they have no ability to 'reveal'. The lynch-mobbist can ignore night-immunity, and can only steal the ability uses of those who visit the person they are targeting.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby TheCow » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:39 am

If anything, the role list should be modified to reflect the number of players required to run this game.

As for why the Sorceress is easy to confirm, if a role has a modified night result (such as an Investigator receiving a Consigliere result, they're confirmed). There is also the point that the effects are not in balance with one another (for example: the Investigator receives a massive buff, while the Sheriff only eliminates a small degree of the counter-play against them. Knight is broken, becoming a super doctor that can murder scum.)

Lynch-Mob is weak because it takes a portion of the Town's tempo to make a kill, night immune aside. As far as night immunity piercing goes, that is highly situation, and becomes redundant in the face of a normal lynch, especially when such a large degree of Town night action is being sacrificed to make the kill. Really, the role only does anything if the Town is ahead in the endgame, where they can night-lynch freely, while not sacrificing as much relative resource.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby hippophant » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:05 pm

Wow. Nice, guys. Real nice. Thanks for the five whole 'no' votes reducing my total karma to 19, with no one but Cow providing a valid explanation. Really nice. I mean it. Not mad at all. Great job. Real nice job everyone. Silly me to be excited to be one of the next few pitches, only to suddenly be thrown back several places down.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby ValeforRaine » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:10 pm

You want to know why I voted no? Fine.

You have 28 players in a list labelled for 30, which you've failed to address. You've also failed to address a lot of Cow's feedback, which I found valid and was curious about myself. The number of players is a rather basic thing that should be fixed and in the almost week since it's been pointed out, no change has been made to rectify even just that.

If you actually take time to respond to feedback, maybe I'll change it. As it stands, there are flaws that haven't been addressed and which I think are borderline gamebreaking.
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby SwedishLemon » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:17 pm

dis pitch b ded nauw
When the sun sets here, there is no light.
When it rises, it all shines bright.
It feels monotonous. Monochrome.
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For what does a Swedish Lemon do
When trapped in a padded cell?
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Re: Onward: The Battle of Ages; an RPG Adventure (Complete)

Postby Invenio » Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:03 pm

Closed as per request.
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