Forum Mafia Chess

[Rickdaily12]

I've realized that the idea on having Kings relay messages to their colors is faulty. It's extremely easy for the people getting lynched or jailed to quickly fire off a simple "code save" word that makes it truly clear which alignment they are. It's impossible to disallow quoting this... people will find a way to incorporate either message into a defense and rules against this would be too ridiculous to impose.

I'd still like White to have some advantage at some points in the game and Black to have some advantage on others, but it can't be something that White players don't know of Black's, or Black players don't know of White's.

I like that you have an idea of random pawns. But frankly, I don't think Investigators are terribly needed. I kinda wish protection were more on point with this game, especially with the number of deaths that happen each night. I think protection is more needed than information- especially with 4 Rooks working with a king. With 2 rooks per color with the Kings, they don't really need Investigators- they need people to save their own.

I like the Jailing buff you've given the Queen. It could be enough for her to figure out their color out of three messages.

[LordofFail]

I've realized that the idea on having Kings relay messages to their colors is faulty. It's extremely easy for the people getting lynched or jailed to quickly fire off a simple "code save" word that makes it truly clear which alignment they are. It's impossible to disallow quoting this... people will find a way to incorporate either message into a defense and rules against this would be too ridiculous to impose.

I'd still like White to have some advantage at some points in the game and Black to have some advantage on others, but it can't be something that White players don't know of Black's, or Black players don't know of White's.

I like that you have an idea of random pawns. But frankly, I don't think Investigators are terribly needed. I kinda wish protection were more on point with this game, especially with the number of deaths that happen each night. I think protection is more needed than information- especially with 4 Rooks working with a king. With 2 rooks per color with the Kings, they don't really need Investigators- they need people to save their own.

I like the Jailing buff you've given the Queen. It could be enough for her to figure out their color out of three messages.

I dont understand what you mean by a "code save" word; Kings and Rooks of the same colour will know who they are (they will act like a Mafia)

If you mean to announce a code in the thread to save certain players, there is no guarantee that it is truth, it could be mindgames. Perhaps elaborate on that point a bit, I dont really understand your point.

The only code that I really think can be abused is if a Rook or King is jailed by their Queen and they give a code for a player that they find to be of opposite colour to execute. I will have to think on whether or not something like that would be considered against the rules.

And about Investigatives - I agree that there will be plenty of night deaths, but given that there are no "scum", nobody can be accused of acting "scummy" to be lynched, it will almost entirely be random lynching. Unless Rooks and Kings play well and can get suspicion on players they know are on opposite colours. I just feel that some investigatives are needed. Perhaps give one Knight on each team the additional ability to investigate their target, who they are also protecting like a bodyguard?

[Rickdaily12]

The White King sends a message (that only White players see, to...)

"blah blah blah blah blah
we want to kill blah blah blah blah
do blah vote blah blah blah blah

"and if you want to prove yourself a White player when you need to, use any of these words: "kitten scat tramp hippopotamus 007 poop"

So as a White player is about to be lynched, they grab 4 of all those words and start saying "I was just so focused on blah [kill target], and I thought I could trust blah [do target] but I guess I was so curious about blah [vote target]

anyway here's my will

"I hate kittens, they act like scats from lady and the tramp..."


White Players go OH SHIT and start trying to target other people.

[LordofFail]

ok so the idea of a King sending a message to their alignment is flawed, but what else can be done that allows white to "go" first without unbalancing the game?

[Rickdaily12]

Maybe it doesn't have to be so much of that. Hell, White doesn't even have to go first...

White players do have an advantage against Black players in the sense that they can control where the game goes. So a Day advantage for White makes sense. One move to open the game can have the board looking radically different from any other 1st White move. It needs to be passive, it needs to be something every White player has access to.

Good Black players see all sorts of openings that White tries to throw at them, so they typically have a heightened ability to respond better. If White trips up and has to go on the defensive, Black can usually overthrow White entirely once the latter is caught off guard. Better defensive play means Black should have a passive Night advantage. Again, something that every Black player should have access to.

Thinking along the lines of timing the White/Black King's messages is on the right path, but this needs to be a team-wide buff, and the Day advantage needs to be about as powerful as the Night advantage.

[Rickdaily12]

Okay, I think I've got it.

Only once in the game, a White player can inform the Moderator that they wish to add a second vote into the Vote count. None of the players are told this has happened- if Majority has been reached, the Moderator simply announces enough White players had used their ability to get the vote count to end.

Only once in the game, a Black player can wear a bulletproof vest. It does not work against the Queen, or if they are roleblocked. However, if they are roleblocked, they keep the vest. The Black King also gets a vest- it will protect them from the BodyGuard if they are attacked. The Black Bodyguards gain an additional vest to the one they already have.

[LordofFail]

Okay, I think I've got it.

Only once in the game, a White player can inform the Moderator that they wish to add a second vote into the Vote count. None of the players are told this has happened- if Majority has been reached, the Moderator simply announces enough White players had used their ability to get the vote count to end.

Only once in the game, a Black player can wear a bulletproof vest. It does not work against the Queen, or if they are roleblocked. However, if they are roleblocked, they keep the vest. The Black King also gets a vest- it will protect them from the BodyGuard if they are attacked. The Black Bodyguards gain an additional vest to the one they already have.

I like those ideas a lot, but it is an extra vote / vest for every player?

Also, about the vote, vote counts will be stated in the thread and votes will be in the thread like a standard FM game - it will have nothing to do with whether or not the voters are White or Black. That would certainly cause some interesting situations if say 8 people voted and 10 were needed for majority and the player was lynched, it would mean that 2 of the 8 voters are White - I can see some interesting mindgames developing there...

[Rickdaily12]

Yes. Every White player gains a hidden vote, one-use. They activate it, and their vote counts as two without anyone actually knowing it does.

As well, every Black player gains a vest they can use passively with their other ability. In the case of Knight BGs, that gives them one vest which interrupts their night action, and one that doesn't.

This gives White a slight edge during the Day, and Black during Night.

[LordofFail]

so every Black player gains immunity for one attack? or do they have to announce when they want to use the vest by PM to the mod?

[Rickdaily12]

It's a vest, one use, they use it in junction with their night action.

[LordofFail]

It's a vest, one use, they use it in junction with their night action.

ok so they tell the game mod when they want to use it or is it just a passive immunity that automatically protects them from the first attack against them?

I would go for the former over the latter, a passive auto-protection like that of the Witch is kinda OP imo

[LeScraf]

It's a vest, one use, they use it in junction with their night action.

ok so they tell the game mod when they want to use it or is it just a passive immunity that automatically protects them from the first attack against them?

I would go for the former over the latter, a passive auto-protection like that of the Witch is kinda OP imo

I would assume it's obvious you're going for the first one.

[LordofFail]

If you are voting "No", it would be much appreciated if you could post a reason why, and if possible, give some constructive criticism on the idea.

I know that the idea is not going to be loved by everyone, but I would still like the opinions of those who voted "No" to see the other side.

[LordofFail]

A couple major changes:

1) Knights are now back to being Bodyguards and cannot be Investigators

2) White and Black now have advantages. White has their advantage related to voting and black can investigate players at night. Note that only pawns of a selected type (by RNG) can use this advantage. White Pawns with this advantage can double their vote or nullify the vote of another player. If a White Pawn with this advantage targets another White Pawn with this advantage who targeted themselves, then there is no net effect.
(Pawn A doubles his vote and Pawn B reduces Pawn A's vote by 1)

3) Slight change to the Role List: there are now 2 random pawns in each alignment and 2 normal pawns

4) Voting is different. Votes are submitted to the game mods via PM and it is not revealed who voted against whom, only the numbers of voters against each player. Also, Vote Counts are released only at preset times. No discussion of who voted against whom is permitted. Players may claim that they voted but may not specify who they voted against.

[VonAntarctic]

And I'd say King should be Night Immune at least for a few days then lose said night immunity, we don't want the game to end D1 now do we, I don't recall any one-turn wins in Chess.

Fool's mate tells us that King should lose immunity by second day if you go with true chess.

[TheCow]

This game is flawed at its core and would be unable to work. Firstly, I would like to put forward the argument that this game is not FM. There is neither an informed minority nor an uninformed majority. By definition it is not a game of Mafia and should not be allowed to be hosted as one. If it cannot be vetoed on those grounds, I shall now attempt to point out why this game is flawed.

If one were to simulate this game to see how it would end up, they would quickly find that this game as three endstates:

1) A Rook finds the enemy king.
2) A King is killed by a Knight.
3) A King attacks a Night Immune role.

As soon as one of these three things occur, the game immediately ends, as the opposite faction immediately either kills the king or takes control of the lynch. This is unhealthy gameplay and completely takes the skill out of the game, as it just comes down to randomly selecting targets, as one will always hit someone of the opposite faction. There is nothing stopping a day one reveal. If anyone lies about their faction, their true alignment is immediately found out, as it would allow their enemies to make a lynch, securing the game.

I'm voting no on this pitch and recommending that it is taken down on the grounds that it is not actually a game of Mafia.

[LordofFail]

Please remove this pitch.

I have another pitch in progress that will be posted a bit after I return from camp in a week. As you would expect, its sprots related.