Pseudothrowing Strategy

[Malfoydragon]

You know those mafia members who join the game and will reveal the entire mafia almost instantly? And people will usually listen to them? Well, what if you took advantage of that? Well, this one game I did exactly that. In the game, I proposed this strategy to the mafia Night 1, and got their permission to do it. When it was Day 2, I announced to the entire town that I was a gamethrowing Mafioso, but the 3 other people I listed as mafia were fake. I was lynched, Jailor exed one of them (and lost all their exes), Vigilante shot another (and committed suicide the next day), and the third person left. Mafia also won that game.

EDIT: Considering that I got lynched that day, this may be a good Jester strategy too.

[Malfoydragon]

Another more passive version of this strategy is to call out random townies as mafia if you are about to die, or make a will calling out random townies as mafia.

[Bodhrak]

Mafia also won that game.

Consider yourself lucky then. You had a lynch happy town. And a gamethrower.
Any decent town will figure this out as a jestery and let Jailor handle this.
Even if they don't, there is no guarantee for there being a Vig in the game. And a 1v1 trade isn't good for mafia.

Also doing it as Mafioso/GF is pretty stupid. With only one MK town just has to jail/rb the right person and then they can do that over and over until they've rooted out the rest of the mafia.

[losingisfun]

I have a decent amount of experience as a juror in the trial system, but I would say your tactic (when it comes to the specific details in which you describe it) is shady and at least edging on actual gamethrowing. I would want to say that you would be warned to not repeat this tactic (instead of punished) if you were to be reported, but I really have zero authority and no confidence to make that sort of statement.

Here are my problems with this tactic:

• You’re outing yourself as mafia, which regardless of intentions, is always gamethrowy.
• You’re sacrificing yourself for uncertain rewards, and picking a single player that would be bad to ‘out’ (maybe they are or will become really townie), will almost always mean you’ve just totally wasted a mafia member. Town killing roles would have to kill more than one of the people you ‘outed’ in the same night for this to make any sense.
• You’re also relying on the fact that people gamethrow often enough that this tactic is possible. If people were to gamethrow like this too infrequently, it would make this tactic more gamethrowy.
• This is possibly more effective when you ‘pseudogamethrow’ early (as this might be when it’s most frequent and thus believable), where you don’t have much information on whether there is a much simpler and better tactic than this (that would work in the game you are in).
• From what I can tell, it seems that you’re outing yourself (and ‘outing’ others) as mafia when you would otherwise be a normal and non-suspicious player. While there may be multiple mafia that are (or will soon be) suspicious when you do this, you might be throwing away a mafia member that would of otherwise been able to survive until the end.

The part where you pretended to out others is fine. The part that I have a problem with, is that I can’t say for sure that you won’t eventually wind up in a game where the way this tactic was executed crossed the line, and gets you suspended or banned (you’d only be banned if you’ve been suspended 3 times before (if you think you’ve only been suspended twice, just double check, because maybe you didn’t see your first suspension cuz it was only 24 hours)). Perhaps this wouldn’t be as bad if you only do this once you’ve become reasonably suspicious (especially if multiple non-mafia who you will ‘out’ are actively and suddenly pushing against you), and the fact that you asked for and received permission from your mafia members for this tactic makes this case at least somewhat better.

Generally speaking, if you want to be on the safe side, DON’T use this tactic until a judge/TurdPile (or maybe a dev on a blue moon) gives you feedback. But even if a judge/TurdPile says this is OK (perhaps under specific circumstances), I’d still be wary, as the chances a developer (I won’t name names) comes along and decides that you broke the rules anyways are real.

[itslitatthenightsh0w]

I've done jury duty in real life and I can confirm that this guy has absolutely no idea what he's talking about^

There is no reason to do this strategy. If you really want to win as Maf just claim a town role day one then make reads. Yesterday in ranked I won as Godfather by claiming Veteran day one. Call me the bluff god.

[Malfoydragon]

I have a decent amount of experience as a juror in the trial system, but I would say your tactic (when it comes to the specific details in which you describe it) is shady and at least edging on actual gamethrowing. I would want to say that you would be warned to not repeat this tactic (instead of punished) if you were to be reported, but I really have zero authority and no confidence to make that sort of statement.

Here are my problems with this tactic:
[........]

I understand what you're saying. Those reasons are why I've never used the bussing strategy, where you out a fellow mafia member to appear as town, such as a Godfather claiming Sheriff and saying one of the mafia appeared as suspicious. Bussing is similar to the strategy I detailed here in the sense that it has the same effect: outing one mafia member. The difference is in how that mafia member is outed and it is also admittedly less risky relative to the reward. A lot of people view it as a legitimate strategy though, which is why I have been curious for a while what the moderators think about it.

When I first came up with the Pseudothrowing Strategy, I wasn't sure if it would work so I tested it, and in that game it worked out pretty well.

Here's how it meticulously played out in the game that I tested it in:
--The mafia killed someone Night 1.
--Day 2 I performed this strategy, and got lynched, so the mafia lost a member.
--The Jailor executed one of the fake mafia. This had the net effect of nullifying the Jailor and eliminating a townie.
--The Vigilante shot one of the fake mafia. This had the net effect of eliminating two townies.
--The last person accused of being mafia left, which had the net effect of eliminating one townie.
--The mafia killed someone Night 2.
--So, by Day 3, the town had lost majority. Six townies had been eliminated, leaving three townies, three mafia, and two neutrals. It was a fairly easy victory from there.

That was just one game though which is why I posted the strategy idea here to see what others would think. You are right that this strategy working out like it did in that game relied on many factors, and what happened in this game was highly unlikely. One scenario that is more likely to happen, where this strategy would not be as effective would be after I got lynched, a Vigilante shot one of the fake mafia but nothing else happend. What would follow is, as soon as the town saw the person that the Vigilante shot was not actually mafia, the other two people "outed" as mafia that were still living would probably be exonerated. In this specific scenario, it would be a two-for-one trade, so you could make the case that it may still be worth it. However, the value of mafia members to the mafia is higher then the value of town members to the town because town has majority, so I would argue in this scenario it probably is not worth it.

You may be better off bussing a mafia member though. While bussing does not have the same potential for such a massive effect, the potential that the pseudothrowing strategy has for this massive effect is highly unlikely. And when you bus a mafia member, you are "confirming" another, and "confirmed" mafia members have a higher value then ones that are not "confirmed".

As for a scenario where people already think you are suspicious, with the previous points in mind, the more passive version of this strategy would probably be better. Using the more passive version of this strategy, you would erase your last will and replace it with something like, "This game stinks and the mafia were all idiots, so I will gamethrow. The other mafia are 2, 4, and 8", then if the town decides to lynch you, you will have performed the pseudothrowing strategy without having to out yourself at all. That's the difference between the aggressive and passive version of this strategy. In the aggressive version, you actively sacrifice a mafia member, but in the passive one, you do not need to because they are already viewed as suspicious.

And none of this is taking into account the risk that you pointed out of getting some sort of repercussion for bussing a mafia member or using the aggressive version of pseudothrowing, which is undoubtedly the most important part to take into account, and when taking this into account, probably neither of these strategies are worth it.

[UzayAltay]

I have a decent amount of experience as a juror in the trial system, but I would say your tactic (when it comes to the specific details in which you describe it) is shady and at least edging on actual gamethrowing. I would want to say that you would be warned to not repeat this tactic (instead of punished) if you were to be reported, but I really have zero authority and no confidence to make that sort of statement.

Here are my problems with this tactic:
[........]

I understand what you're saying. Those reasons are why I've never used the bussing strategy, where you out a fellow mafia member to appear as town, such as a Godfather claiming Sheriff and saying one of the mafia appeared as suspicious. Bussing is similar to the strategy I detailed here in the sense that it has the same effect: outing one mafia member. The difference is in how that mafia member is outed and it is also admittedly less risky relative to the reward. A lot of people view it as a legitimate strategy though, which is why I have been curious for a while what the moderators think about it.

When I first came up with the Pseudothrowing Strategy, I wasn't sure if it would work so I tested it, and in that game it worked out pretty well.

Here's how it meticulously played out in the game that I tested it in:
--The mafia killed someone Night 1.
--Day 2 I performed this strategy, and got lynched, so the mafia lost a member.
--The Jailor executed one of the fake mafia. This had the net effect of nullifying the Jailor and eliminating a townie.
--The Vigilante shot one of the fake mafia. This had the net effect of eliminating two townies.
--The last person accused of being mafia left, which had the net effect of eliminating one townie.
--The mafia killed someone Night 2.
--So, by Day 3, the town had lost majority. Six townies had been eliminated, leaving three townies, three mafia, and two neutrals. It was a fairly easy victory from there.

That was just one game though which is why I posted the strategy idea here to see what others would think. You are right that this strategy working out like it did in that game relied on many factors, and what happened in this game was highly unlikely. One scenario that is more likely to happen, where this strategy would not be as effective would be after I got lynched, a Vigilante shot one of the fake mafia but nothing else happend. What would follow is, as soon as the town saw the person that the Vigilante shot was not actually mafia, the other two people "outed" as mafia that were still living would probably be exonerated. In this specific scenario, it would be a two-for-one trade, so you could make the case that it may still be worth it. However, the value of mafia members to the mafia is higher then the value of town members to the town because town has majority, so I would argue in this scenario it probably is not worth it.

You may be better off bussing a mafia member though. While bussing does not have the same potential for such a massive effect, the potential that the pseudothrowing strategy has for this massive effect is highly unlikely. And when you bus a mafia member, you are "confirming" another, and "confirmed" mafia members have a higher value then ones that are not "confirmed".

As for a scenario where people already think you are suspicious, with the previous points in mind, the more passive version of this strategy would probably be better. Using the more passive version of this strategy, you would erase your last will and replace it with something like, "This game stinks and the mafia were all idiots, so I will gamethrow. The other mafia are 2, 4, and 8", then if the town decides to lynch you, you will have performed the pseudothrowing strategy without having to out yourself at all. That's the difference between the aggressive and passive version of this strategy. In the aggressive version, you actively sacrifice a mafia member, but in the passive one, you do not need to because they are already viewed as suspicious.

And none of this is taking into account the risk that you pointed out of getting some sort of repercussion for bussing a mafia member or using the aggressive version of pseudothrowing, which is undoubtedly the most important part to take into account, and when taking this into account, probably neither of these strategies are worth it.

Bussing is completely legit , I am sure other kinds of Bussing Except hardbus is completely legit ( shortbus , cross-distancing , softbussing Etc . ) , Hardbussing may be discussable but I think it is Because of people doing it wrong , Than tactic being bad .

About your strategy being bad , it is A bad strategy , normally as Jailor I would Never execute or shoot Like that Unless I see Another Maf dead in that group , I Dont think it should be Clarified as gamethrowing ,

[Kombinator1991]

Had similar "gamethrow". I gave 4 names in the death note "throwing" the mafia members, but only one name was real. NK killed that one next night, and town fail lynched another. At night vig. shot one, and jailor exed other. 2 town died, because of that gamethrow.

Another time i did the same to med. Gave 3 names, and only one was real. Even got a cheater on hook, because mafia member started yelling about gamethrowing despite, that there is no way, that maf. member can see deadchat in normal cases. Funniest part. It didn't worked, because med. was afk., then left, or got crashed. The only one who called it out was a mafia member. When i pointed out this slight error he claimed to be an admin, and chat testing stuff. Well i don't know how local admins work, but revealing yourself like that seems really bad idea. Not to mention, that admin or not using info you aren't supposed to have is cheating to others.

However it's only good, if you are about to die anyway. Playing the childish, if i lose, then make every maf. lose style. Putting one real maf. on the list will most likely confirm that maf., or makes townies kill each other.

Possibilities:
List gets ignored, because you can't be trusted.
Town kills a town from list first, then list marked pure lie protecting the one maf. on it. 75% chance in case of 4 player list
That maf. dies confirming, that the list is true, and unless one of them is hard confirmer like mayor, or jailor, then other townie is about to die.

[wsuh]

That doesnt appear like a real gamethrow. It seems more like a clever reverse psychology strategy to get jailor and vigi to kill townies

[Descender]

I've seen this ALOT and everytime they either lynch one while jailor holds one and escorts the others, or they do a rolecheck.

[Anyar]

I wouldn't call it a good idea to this d2. For any town with a brain, it's an incredibly obvious act, and even if a townie dies, a 1-for-1 trade is not good for mafia this early.

However, I have done this while on stand. Say a Sheriff accuses me and dies in the night, revealing his role. I'm confirmed Mafia so I might as well pretend to get mad and accuse a random townie of being GF (accusing multiple townies is high risk high reward, if one townie is confirmed good then the rest are safe too).