Should I have revived the BG?

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Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Marulken » Sun May 27, 2018 4:38 pm

Quick rundown:
I roll as retri. N1, BG dies. Fine, I'll hold off for a few rounds to see if a more important role dies. N2 I get shot by a vig who for some reason found me sus. I get mad. Some more people die and call me a retard for not reviving the BG when I had the chance. I tried to argue that saving my ability for more important roles was a better strat, but they stood their ground.

So for my question: as a retri, should I revive whoever ASAP?
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Mathelete » Mon May 28, 2018 5:21 am

I think you should have rezzed the BG. The ret is a powerful role, but it's a glass cannon, so you use it or you lose it. Also, BG is a good role to have back.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby OrangeTheYordle » Mon May 28, 2018 6:41 am

Always revive immediately, even if it's a medium.

The lone exception is if the dead person is a vigilante. You can safely leave that role dead unless it is confirmed there is no witch.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:56 pm

I disagree with these guys wholeheartedly. You were 100% correct in this situation (maybe not about waiting for a better role, bodyguard is already decent on its own). There is no way you could possibly have known vig would random shoot you so early. It makes way more sense to save your revive than to use it immediately.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Mathelete » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:50 pm

ProjectSuperBoy wrote:I disagree with these guys wholeheartedly. You were 100% correct in this situation (maybe not about waiting for a better role, bodyguard is already decent on its own). There is no way you could possibly have known vig would random shoot you so early. It makes way more sense to save your revive than to use it immediately.


Even if they didn't anticipate vig random shooting, didn't they consider that they could die night 2?
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby bleachkid » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:21 pm

Always revive first town member. It confirms several roles which include the medium(s), yourself the ret, and the person being revived.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:31 am

Mathelete wrote:Even if they didn't anticipate vig random shooting, didn't they consider that they could die night 2?


Whether you could die or not is irrelevant. You have to consider the odds of whether or not you are going to be killed. Since he was randomly shot by a vig his instincts were correct in believing that he was not a target, and, therefore, had no need to use his revive that early. He claims that he did not do anything suspicious Day 1 or Day 2, so there was no reason for him to expect a town attack. The odds seemed low that anyone would want him dead, so he made the correct decision strategy wise.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Exacerbated » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:06 pm

Revive ASAP in about 95% of scenarios. Having two innocent childs alive is worth more than any role you could possibly revive. The only exception is if you're gambiting at the end of the game and have the option to Revive the Jailor so he can off the last remaining scum.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:57 am

I think it is about how you play strategically. For me, I think the ret is the best late game, of course they run the risk of dying, but they are not really much good to anyone if they bring someone back day 3 who has no chance of surviving long enough to be effective. Maybe if it is for an additional vote, but I feel like your revive should be worth more than that.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Exacerbated » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:09 pm

Tempo and momentum matter. Most information is gained through day chat rather than night actions, anyways. An early revive significantly decreases the odds of the person on the gallows being a wasted charge.

Waiting also provides diminishing returns on the value of the resurrection. By day 4 (2 day/night cycles), the game is already mostly solved and the faction that controlled the flow of the first two days have already essentially put themselves in the prime position for victory. A late revive is either superfluous at best or too late at worst.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:06 pm

I don't really care if you are talking about ranked. In the matches I play it is undoubtedly better to revive late game, and so much more valuable. Furthermore, in my matches most information is gained through night action, day chat almost entirely consists of discussing whether or not someone is telling the truth or does not consist of anything at all. An early revive maybe gets somebody of importance on trial a lot easier, but they are almost assuredly only going to be useful for that one kill.

After that, the return on the resurrection is none, unless they were an extremely good jailor/veteran, etc. Definitely not by day 4. My matches are too varied to say that the game is mostly resolved by any day, let alone a day as early as 4 unless things really fell in somebody's favor. An early revive is either nullified the following day or ends up winning the entire game for town, but those are more like 70-30 odds, and that is being generous. Strategy and good gameplay is the only thing that matters here.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby spelerthomas » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:52 am

It heavily depends on if you are playing Ranked or not. I believe all the people that gave you the advice to res soon play ranked. Ranked is a meta-heavy game, the trick is to confirm everyone and kill the ones with lame wills. If you don't play ranked but ranked practise then things are a lot different. Its better to lay off reviving too early before a good role died. That said, in my opinion BG is still a good role even in ranked practise, so I would personally have revived him anyway also considering you could easily die soon by maf, nk or tk. If you don't think bg is any good, I'm wondering what role you think is good to res beside the jailor?
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby BasicFourLife » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:01 am

Revive the first dead target, always no matter what. It was both of your fault, the Vigilante's for shooting you with little information and yourself for not resurrecting. I still don't understand why people don't resurrect the first target possible.

Exceptions are game-throwers and Vigilantes in Witch games.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby SarahSaurus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:12 pm

Vigilante shouldn't have shot you. BUT you should have revived the BG. I can understand that if a lackluster role dies early, it may not always seem worth it to revive. But Town's biggest enemy is time and losing votes, so honestly having more votes is more important than any individual role.

Also, a BG is actually a very high-priority target anyway. TPs are super important for protecting your other high-priority Townies, and a BG can even KILL a scum. Reviving BG would have confirmed the TS slot for your town, and brought back a role that could protect other townies, kill scum, and add to your voting power.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Eragon1329 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:09 pm

In this Scenario, I agree with Sarah.

you were both in the wrong here

vigi was stupid for shooting you, but being that the dead role in question was a bodyguard, it should've always been revived.

There was one time I was a ret that didn't revive a spy that got lynched N1, and I didn't want to revive it N2(the night killed roll was cleaned, there was an AFK, and a mafia) so I didn't revive, then N3 I was jailed, claimed ret, and got jailed and exe'd by the jailor for not reviving.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Lemondude617 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 am

I'm a firm believer in reviving the first townie that dies, because, and only because, the ret has the chance of dying before the lategame.

A ret not reviving before they die, in my opinion, is akin to not pushing a giant, glowing, shiny green button with a flashy label reading "PUSH THIS BUTTON TO CONFIRM A TOWN WIN".

Hell, I don't care if I revive a medium or an escort! Reviving guarantees TWO confirmed town roles: The ret, and the resurrected target; both of which have the ability to dictate lynchings and throw suspicion since they possess confirmed ethos. It also undoes a night of an evil role's killing.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby Mathelete » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:17 pm

Lemondude617 wrote:I'm a firm believer in reviving the first townie that dies, because, and only because, the ret has the chance of dying before the lategame.

A ret not reviving before they die, in my opinion, is akin to not pushing a giant, glowing, shiny green button with a flashy label reading "PUSH THIS BUTTON TO CONFIRM A TOWN WIN".

Hell, I don't care if I revive a medium or an escort! Reviving guarantees TWO confirmed town roles: The ret, and the resurrected target; both of which have the ability to dictate lynchings and throw suspicion since they possess confirmed ethos. It also undoes a night of an evil role's killing.


I actually think Escort is more powerful than people give it credit. When there's only one killing maf, the escort can shut it down, and the town can deliberately keep that killing mafia alive so that it can be roleblocked and mafia cannot kill.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:46 pm

SarahSaurus wrote:Vigilante shouldn't have shot you. BUT you should have revived the BG.


Absolutely wrong. Especially when the role in question is a town protective, if you have no way of keeping that person alive you need to account for the fact that you could be bringing someone back just for them to die again the next night. Voting power doesn't mean anything if you don't know who to vote up. Using your revive early is a huge waste.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby BasicFourLife » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:56 am

ProjectSuperBoy wrote:
SarahSaurus wrote:Vigilante shouldn't have shot you. BUT you should have revived the BG.


Absolutely wrong. Especially when the role in question is a town protective, if you have no way of keeping that person alive you need to account for the fact that you could be bringing someone back just for them to die again the next night. Voting power doesn't mean anything if you don't know who to vote up. Using your revive early is a huge waste.

Voting Power means absolutely everything. Your argument is completely invalid. It sets back the Evils for a night no matter what role you bring back. Also confirms 2 Town roles for free. Also Mediums. And gives Town another Town with night actions.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:46 pm

No, your argument is completely invalid, as usual.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby CommentEtiquette » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:41 am

I agree with the drunken magician courage the cowardly dog drawing. You absolutely should have revived the bodyguard. Doing nothing past night three as a retributionist is as good as helping the mafia or neutral killing. Even if there's a transporter you should get them because the chances of you getting killed increases each night.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:49 pm

No, it isn't. Pidgeon holing the ret into some template is what would be more detrimental to town. The ret needs to be allowed to play their own strategy based on how they feel the game is going. The fact that you could die each night is even more of a reason why waiting was the right move here because it is just as likely, if not more so, that you are not attacked.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ChiefPatar » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:33 am

ProjectSuperBoy wrote:No, it isn't. Pidgeon holing the ret into some template is what would be more detrimental to town. The ret needs to be allowed to play their own strategy based on how they feel the game is going. The fact that you could die each night is even more of a reason why waiting was the right move here because it is just as likely, if not more so, that you are not attacked.


Ret can never be "detrimental" to town. It's not a tk, it's not an escort or mayor, if you revive someone you are helping, period. Holding off your revive so that you can get marginally more utility out of what is already an extremely useful ability is gambling on one of the most powerful abilities in the game for what is almost negligible utility.

I'm in agreement with the other commenters on this forum who say you should revive the fist target you can (afk's and trolls notwithstanding). Even if your target is just going to get killed again you've now been auto-confirmed and forced the maf to waste a day killing a guy who was already dead. That's more than most town roles could ever hope to do for their team.

Also the OP of this thread chose not to use their ability on a BG. That's literally like a tier 2 role in terms of what would be most useful for the ret to revive. The whole "save your ability for a better target" argument is hardly even relevant to this scenario (though I think it's a moot argument anyway.)
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby ProjectSuperBoy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:16 pm

No, ret CAN be detrimental to town. If they bring somebody back at the wrong moment they have squandered an opportunity that could be game changing later.
Let's say they bring back jailor n2, but bg/doc are already dead. Jailor simply dies again.
But, if ret were to wait and bring back jailor when the evils have already been identified, jailor just became that much more likely to be effective rather than just get killed immediately again after being brought back. So, yeah, it can definitely hurt town's chances of winning.
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Re: Should I have revived the BG?

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:50 am

ProjectSuperBoy wrote:No, ret CAN be detrimental to town. If they bring somebody back at the wrong moment they have squandered an opportunity that could be game changing later.
Let's say they bring back jailor n2, but bg/doc are already dead. Jailor simply dies again.
But, if ret were to wait and bring back jailor when the evils have already been identified, jailor just became that much more likely to be effective rather than just get killed immediately again after being brought back. So, yeah, it can definitely hurt town's chances of winning.

But they still confirm themselves, the Jailor, waste a night for the Scum, confirm all Mediums, confirm all fake Mediums as fake, allow another Town role to perform abilities. Town is nearly guaranteed a win in a game with a Retributionist who revives early.
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