Double Crus in VIP

[Matthew0898]

What is the best approach to being Crusader in a game with 2 or more crusader claims in VIP mode(assuming you are a crusader and the VIP is not among the people claiming crusader).

There is the obvious play of having whoever claimed second be on the person who claimed first (and hoping that the tracker goes on the second crusader). This strikes me as a terrible strategy. If the first claim is medusa, the crusader dies (if medusa stones) and the vip is at risk of being sent into medusa or being killed by the potion master or poisoner. Likewise, if the second crusader to claim is actually medusa, it's even worse. Not only are the tracker and another town protective likely to die if medusa stone gazes, but the coven leader has the option to have the real crusader stoned (or to control them onto any coven members attacked by a pirate).

Now, if both of the crusader claims are real, the former can be a powerful strategy, but this is also one that a savvy coven can take advantage of. If both the coven leader and potion master are skilled, the coven leader might direct the first crusader onto themselves(sending crus1 onto crus1 and have the potion master heal the coven leader. Unless the pirate or GA interfere, this leads to 3 scenarios:

1. The second crusader is killed by the first crusader(great for coven).
2. The coven leader is attacked and healed. This is actually decent for the town, unless the vip dies or is poisoned in a doctor-less game). Likewise, it isn't great for coven (although not the end of the world, because it makes crus 2 look really suspicious, plus they may be able to spin it and push whoever was pirated as being medusa).
3. Nobody dies because the real town protective(either doctor or crusader) was on the second crusader claim. This is similar to option 2 except that the coven have learned that they cannot kill the second one directly because there is a crus3/doctor protecting crus2 (and it is possible that they may be able to spin it and push whoever was pirated for being medusa).

Even if both crusaders are real, the third town protective might opt not to protect the second town protective as this can lead to the loss of two town protectives, eliminating the chance of scenario 3.
Plus there is the risk that both crusaders go on vip, or (unlikely but it happens) the second crusader is pirated and as the first crusader you get sent into medusa.

What are some alternative strategies that the crusaders can employ in this scenario?

[kyuss420]

2nd crus claim on 1st crus claim with tracker on 2nd crus claim. This is the only way to confirm to the 2nd crus (and confirm the first claim isnt medusa). If 2 people are stoned n1 and no one is claiming tracker, then you know the 2nd claim is medusa. Sure, it leaves vip open for a night, (if the first claim is medusa) but they would of been open anyway, and possibly open longer, because medusa would have gotten away with it. With medusa dead day 2, (from trackers findings) CL cant kill n2, so VIP is safe from that, while BGs and trappers can cover the VIP from the others. It really is the most optimal play for town. (But as a pro CL, i would bus the dusa in return for a stoned crus, as I have other strats for getting n2 kills, as CL, without medusa - altho most noobs wont)

CL (anyone with a brain) will be targeting the crusaders first up - before BG and trapper protections come into play, mainly controlling the 2nd crus to dusa, and PM killing the first, which gives coven 2 dead crusaders day 2, and more often than not, an open for controlling VIP n2.

As for the sending crus to himself strategy, I only use that when the TP on the crusader is hidden, its not a viable n1 strat for coven, as the 2nd crusader may not even protect the first. I'd use it n2, if the crus didnt die to dusa gaze n1, and the PM used his kill pot n1... or even if the dusa was hung day 2. Besides your much better off going for the double crus kill, and getting the medusa to fish for a TP or vigi CC once the tracker outs them (townie noobs love to call out obvious lies), that way, even if you die as CL, thats 2 nights the coven doesnt have to waste on them (or fumble around guessing at the 3rd tp on the 2nd crus), and if you got a hex master, the vip is basically open n3.

[Transcender]

honestly the fact that tos vip as the same issue as followthecop setups proves that the rolelist needs to be changed

[kyuss420]

honestly the fact that tos vip as the same issue as followthecop setups proves that the rolelist needs to be changed

I dont see any issues with the role list. I see a lot of ''townies'' who dont have a clue how to coven, having problems with the role list. I see a lot of noobs trying to outclaim town, instead of using their heads and finding the VIP, I mean if you play right, coven can kill the VIP, even when all members are known to town. I make myself known sometimes, just to set up a play for the following nights, keeping towns attention focused on me instead of other coven members for a day.

Of course, if you are afraid to target crusaders early (which most noob CLs are) then your chances of winning drops significantly. Cant tell you how many times I have a noob team that doesnt listen and I end up as solo coven day 3, having to kill 4 TPs then the VIP (thats 5 nights I dont have noobs!) instead of solo coven day 3 with 1 TP and VIP to kill. Every night a TP doesnt die, is an extra night you have to survive in the game.