Mikemk wrote:So, instead of spying, the spy now magically knows anything that's ever happened.
BasicFourLife wrote:No papa
zzjay wrote:Cool idea...but i think it'd be pretty useless,as information.
How about the spy only gets if this person was visited by a member of the mafia ,THAT particular night they bugged them?
I know it's a huge nerf,but as it is right now,spy is useless in low elo (ie: ranked practice,dead Spy reaults+ LO found out who the random mafia was,but tye medium wasn't able to combine the results xD),but OP in high elo.
So i think it's the sbility in itself that is what is wrong.
Yet still only the bugs,it'll just be a situational TI,with no real impact on the game,except when 2 vigilantes are told to shoot each other.
So spy borders on useless TI ,if nerfed,but OP if left like it is.
xTiffanyyx wrote:i've really wanted to see a nerf to spy for a long time, but then you've got people who still think the old spy nerf made it useless. anyway, the ability spy makes it so hard for mafia members to mislead town. get a good spy in ranked and RM is screwed.
i like the idea of removing free information. it hardly takes skill to play the current spy, all players have to do is bug the jailor and make a list of all visits. mafia claiming spy would definitely test town's ability to see through deception, as now mafia members can claim that their teammates were visited without the interference of spies.
i think this would still make spy op. i saw another reply saying that spy should only be able to see the visits of the night they "spy" on them, but a spy and mafia member visiting the same person on the same night is very unlikely. maybe make them able to see visits from the past 1-2 days? mafia would not stand a chance late game with a spy alive.
also, shouldn't this be in role ideas?
Flake wrote:I just don't think a role which decreases the incentive for Mafia to visit is mechanically sound
The same applies here, just to a lesser extent than the current Spy
Villagerlover wrote:The mafia is still suffering from having the spy act as a direct counter to their random mafia roles in ranked games. I think Spies should avoid having their mafia visits spoonfed to them every night, and I found a way for them to earn their results just like anyone else. So how about this...
Changes to the Spy:
1) Remove the direct information automatically given to the spy every night.
2) When the spy visits someone at night, not only are they bugging their house, but they will be able to know if the person they choose to visit has ever been visited by a member of the mafia throughout the course of the game.
For example:
William hobbs gets visited by a disguiser on night 1.
A spy visits William hobbs night 3, and receives the message "Your target has been visited by a member of the mafia!"
Sure, it's not a proper fix to an entirely flawed concept, but now it forces the Spy to actually earn their findings instead of receiving the information for freeeeee......
Thoughts?
Kirize12 wrote:Removal > Rework > This > Current
Kirize12 wrote:Villagerlover wrote:Kirize12 wrote:Removal > Rework > This > Current
Remove Removal and it's good to go
No papa
Mikemk wrote:I would support the following changes:
1) Bugs are persistent. The entire game, you know everything that happens to the person.
2) You only get 3 bugs.
3) If mafia visits the person AFTER being bugged, you'll know, but not visits from before they were bugged, because spy isn't a magic role.
MoustachioMario wrote:Your bugs happen before any night actions. (Not vet or ww immune)
Mikemk wrote:MoustachioMario wrote:Your bugs happen before any night actions. (Not vet or ww immune)
That's a pretty bad idea, + that would make it control immune
This used to be the way Disguiser worked. It was bad. Everybody writes their names in their wills, so it is countered just by that if you don’t have a Forger or Janitor on your team. If you did have one of those, you were a really lucky bastard, since at the time we had the old Ranked list with 3 mafia and Any, which could only sometimes be Mafia and even more rarely be Forger/Janitor. Still, it wasn’t perfect. If you have a Forger, then disguising as a confirmed Townie was still really obvious because “oh would you look at that Cotton died and flipped Jailor when Sarah was the confirmed Jailor for 8 days. DISGUISER ALERT!” Disguiser and Janitor were a dream team put together, but even that had its weaknesses, and a role that relies on the existence of another role that might not be there to be decent is a bad role.generalgratitude wrote: Proposal: Have the disguiser switch places instead. (Cotton is a disg and deodat is doc. cotton disguises, and becomes deodat. deodat becomes cotton. they retain their roles and respective abilities, but the town see them as having switched roles. If a disguiser dies, he dies with the name of the disguised person, but is shown as disguiser.)
Sylek wrote:What about making spy a unique role? No chance of having two spies to confirm each other.
Kirize12 wrote:Villagerlover can't move the thread independently. If the thread is in the wrong topic please report it instead of posting.
You, however, are guilty of breaking the rule of thread hijacking.
Villagerlover wrote:Sylek wrote:What about making spy a unique role? No chance of having two spies to confirm each other.
The last thing we need is another confirmed town role. I'd say no.
Sylek wrote:Villagerlover wrote:Sylek wrote:What about making spy a unique role? No chance of having two spies to confirm each other.
The last thing we need is another confirmed town role. I'd say no.
If spy is made unique, like mayor, jailor or veteran, then there can't be more than one. If there's only one, I'm not sure how it's a confirmed town. Not all games have a veteran, but if there is a vet there's only one. Spy could be the same.
TurdPile wrote:Do not use the Suggestions forums for Role Ideas or Role changes, use the Role Ideas forum instead: http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=27
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