Janitor>>>Framer?

[egirlChux]

This has probably been complained about before, but I feel like Janitor is Framer on steroids. Framer's pros over Janitor are very situational, while Janitor is absolutely overwhelming.

Framer..
-Erases wills
-Can change wills, although this is only a really big advantage if there's a consigliere or an active investigator sharing info. Situational.
-Cannot see the victim's will, if he changes it it's lost forever
-(obviously) doesn't hide the dead's role
-Gets 3 forges

Janitor..
-Erases wills AND gets to see them for himself, possibly revealing loads of info that will never be available to town
-Hides the dead's roles. If there's no medium/retri, town is virtually hopeless. (2 cleans are very disruptive for town, 3 is way over the top)
-Gets to know the dead's roles, making easy claims for fellow maf possible
-Gets 3 cleans. Three.

Janitor is downright superior, and he's universally hated. Say, I think making it 2 cleans would be reasonable?

[TheDebil]

forger

[TheDebil]

forger

but yes i agree
forger works like 1% of the time
i say get an overhaul of forger instead of nerfing janitor

[Supertcgamer]

forger

[Blackwolfe99]

Framer.. This is a list of the Forger's abilities, not the Framer's.
-Erases wills
-Can change wills, although this is only a really big advantage if there's a consigliere or an active investigator sharing info. Situational.
-Cannot see the victim's will, if he changes it it's lost forever
-(obviously) doesn't hide the dead's role
-Gets 3 forges

I disagree with you though, I see more often than not that Forger is an awful role that needs to be buffed, reworked, or removed.
Not to mention, Janitor is the older of the two roles so it's more like Forger is a weak Janitor.
Plus, much love for the holy grail Mafia set up: Godfather, Consigliere, Consort, Janitor.

[greenrabbit7]

With janitor you just hide information. With forger you can do so, SO much more. People know there's a janitor as soon as there's a clean, but they don't know about forges.

[Mystoc]

think u mean forger.. dragonclaw66 already has a rework idea called the manipulator its quite good i would check it out

http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 27&t=75850

[MoustachioMario]

forger