Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

How is it?

Awesome!
10
25%
Good but could use some tweaks
7
18%
Alright, definitely needs some work
8
20%
Meh
10
25%
Core mechanic is broken, not fun, or terrible
5
13%
 
Total votes : 40

Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:26 pm

Role Name:
Kleptomaniac

Role Alignment:
Neutral (Evil)

Abilities:
- Choose one person to pickpocket each night (Astral visit)

Attributes:
- If your target dies during the night, you steal their will and death note
- If your target lives through the night, you make a copy of their will in the morning
- Only you can see stolen wills and death notes and copies of wills (others will only see a blank will)
- You can still steal cleaned, stoned, and jailed execution's wills (since Astral)

Notifications:
- Players will not be notified if a Kleptomaniac attempted to steal from them.

Goal:
Steal two wills successfully. (used to be three)

Win Conditions:
Wins with Town
Wins with Survivors
Wins with Mafia
Wins with Coven
Wins with Serial Killers
Wins with Arsonists
Wins with Witches
Wins with Werewolves
Wins with Vampires

Special Attributes:
Basic Defense until attacked once.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is not suspicious.
Investigator - Your target could be a Lookout, Forger, Witch, or Kleptomaniac.
Consigliere - Your target is quick with their hands. They must be a Kleptomaniac.

Achievements:
- Steal from a Veteran
- Steal from someone in jail
Will add more later

Additional Information:
There's a lot of slight variations on the rules for when and how you steal wills that I'd be interested in exploring. However, this version seems the most well put together and I'm interested in hearing other people's ideas. I'm particularly interested in interactions between Kleptomaniac and killing roles, and if I should add day/lynching interactions.

Lore:
Will add this later
Last edited by EgyptFalcon on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:45 pm

I feel that the role could work, but I think that the goal is extremely difficult. Predicting the deaths of three people is no easy task.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby oddluck » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:30 am

So ideally this role should be finding Mafia or other evils and offering your services as a non detectable Forger (blank will) to them in exchange for their kill targets

The problem with that is evils tend to keep fake wills so your pretty much in the dark anyway

Waiting for a Vig or a Jailor to announce who they are going to hit is another method, priority targets like unprotected Mayors could be a good source if wills.

Stealing Cleaned, Stoned and Jailor executes are all good to steal in my opinion

It makes sense to be a Neutral Evil considering your goal of intercepting kills

Making yourself known to Evils without alerting Town is the finesse play

2 is probably the correct number of wills to steal, 1 can be just dumb luck for an instant win, 3 is a whole lot of death poaching while trying to stay alive yourself. 2 and you win like a Pirate is optimal

The potential depriving (stealing wills) Town of information seems fun, the gaining of secret info for yourself (copying wills) can be used in some creative ways

Manipulating whoever you need to into killing who you want to die at night is the meat of this role, I really like it

Stealing the kill notes would be a good way to give you access to evils, if it's possible to steal one the you know for a fact that you have NK, Mafia Killing or Coven killing (do Coven use death notes?), if it says something like 10 is immune then you have even more to work with.

The more I think about this role the better it gets
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:11 am

oddluck wrote:So ideally this role should be finding Mafia or other evils and offering your services as a non detectable Forger (blank will) to them in exchange for their kill targets

The problem with that is evils tend to keep fake wills so your pretty much in the dark anyway

Waiting for a Vig or a Jailor to announce who they are going to hit is another method, priority targets like unprotected Mayors could be a good source if wills.

Stealing Cleaned, Stoned and Jailor executes are all good to steal in my opinion

It makes sense to be a Neutral Evil considering your goal of intercepting kills

Making yourself known to Evils without alerting Town is the finesse play

2 is probably the correct number of wills to steal, 1 can be just dumb luck for an instant win, 3 is a whole lot of death poaching while trying to stay alive yourself. 2 and you win like a Pirate is optimal

The potential depriving (stealing wills) Town of information seems fun, the gaining of secret info for yourself (copying wills) can be used in some creative ways

Manipulating whoever you need to into killing who you want to die at night is the meat of this role, I really like it

Stealing the kill notes would be a good way to give you access to evils, if it's possible to steal one the you know for a fact that you have NK, Mafia Killing or Coven killing (do Coven use death notes?), if it says something like 10 is immune then you have even more to work with.

The more I think about this role the better it gets


Thanks! I'll definitely be changing it to two, since that is more achievable. And yeah, the role interaction and communication between evils (and all killing roles) was basically the heart of this idea! :devil:
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby SpiderCat01 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:13 pm

Two wills is two nights. Maybe do something that they may not catch the will e.g. Kleptomaniac: Choose 1/2 places to look. (Out of 3)
Target: Chose a place to hide your will. (Out of 3)
Will hiding places: Wardrobe, drawers or under the bed.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:42 pm

SpiderCat01 wrote:Two wills is two nights. Maybe do something that they may not catch the will e.g. Kleptomaniac: Choose 1/2 places to look. (Out of 3)
Target: Chose a place to hide your will. (Out of 3)
Will hiding places: Wardrobe, drawers or under the bed.


Don't want to make anything remotely close to Pirate which imo is the worst role imaginable.
A success only counts when you steal and don't just make a copy (i.e. If they die that night).
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby dyaomaster » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:50 pm

Can you steal a jailed person’s will?
If so, its visits need to be Astral; Jailor turns away all visitors, so that wouldn’t work.
(Same thing with WW, except it works and then dies)


Also, by the way, does it visit?
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:39 pm

dyaomaster wrote:Can you steal a jailed person’s will?
If so, its visits need to be Astral; Jailor turns away all visitors, so that wouldn’t work.
(Same thing with WW, except it works and then dies)


Also, by the way, does it visit?


Yes, Kleptomaniac does visit.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby dyaomaster » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:11 pm

EgyptFalcon wrote:
dyaomaster wrote:Can you steal a jailed person’s will?
If so, its visits need to be Astral; Jailor turns away all visitors, so that wouldn’t work.
(Same thing with WW, except it works and then dies)


Also, by the way, does it visit?


Yes, Kleptomaniac does visit.


So it won’t be able to do this to jailed or mauled targets, then.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:54 pm

dyaomaster wrote:
EgyptFalcon wrote:
dyaomaster wrote:Can you steal a jailed person’s will?
If so, its visits need to be Astral; Jailor turns away all visitors, so that wouldn’t work.
(Same thing with WW, except it works and then dies)


Also, by the way, does it visit?


Yes, Kleptomaniac does visit.


So it won’t be able to do this to jailed or mauled targets, then.


Ohhhhh very good point!! Yes, I will make it astral. Thank you!
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby Andrej3 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:05 am

too similar to amnesiac and doesnt sound very interesting
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby Helicooler » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:10 am

amnesiacs don't steal wills from living people
they steal roles from dead people
its different
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby itaicool » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:07 pm

Neutral Killing should help the evils. And I don't see how this is really helping.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby Bodhrak » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:21 pm

My main problem is the same that witch has.
As a neutral Evil, you dying before you complete your goal means you lost the game.
Therefore you have no reason to keep your info to yourself, you can just write it in your will and out several important roles, swinging the game in one way or the other.
The only remedy for that would be to never show the will of a dying Klepto.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby dyaomaster » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:46 pm

Hold up
EgyptFalcon wrote: - If your target lives through the night, you make a copy of their will in the morning


No. Just... no.

Giving a role will reading powers makes it not only an instant Consig, but lets it access any and all information any Townie has collected. Way too OP.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:19 pm

dyaomaster wrote:Hold up
EgyptFalcon wrote: - If your target lives through the night, you make a copy of their will in the morning


No. Just... no.

Giving a role will reading powers makes it not only an instant Consig, but lets it access any and all information any Townie has collected. Way too OP.


Witch is already instant Consig and allows you to control them to wherever you like...
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:20 am

Bodhrak wrote:My main problem is the same that witch has.
As a neutral Evil, you dying before you complete your goal means you lost the game.
Therefore you have no reason to keep your info to yourself, you can just write it in your will and out several important roles, swinging the game in one way or the other.
The only remedy for that would be to never show the will of a dying Klepto.


I'd say that's more of a problem with the player than the role. Personally, I like to cover for Mafia and fake accuse Town in my will as Witch. However, since Klepto has to keep a lot of information, not showing their will would be a nice gesture towards other evils.

You also overestimate how much Town pays attention to evil wills.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby dyaomaster » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:18 am

EgyptFalcon wrote:
dyaomaster wrote:Hold up
EgyptFalcon wrote: - If your target lives through the night, you make a copy of their will in the morning


No. Just... no.

Giving a role will reading powers makes it not only an instant Consig, but lets it access any and all information any Townie has collected. Way too OP.


Witch is already instant Consig and allows you to control them to wherever you like...


But Witch can’t learn every night action and result of all the Townie roles. This can.
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Re: Kleptomaniac (Neutral Evil)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:38 am

dyaomaster wrote:
EgyptFalcon wrote:
dyaomaster wrote:Hold up
EgyptFalcon wrote: - If your target lives through the night, you make a copy of their will in the morning


No. Just... no.

Giving a role will reading powers makes it not only an instant Consig, but lets it access any and all information any Townie has collected. Way too OP.


Witch is already instant Consig and allows you to control them to wherever you like...


But Witch can’t learn every night action and result of all the Townie roles. This can.


But Klepto can't control people to do whatever they want. Witch can.

They're strong in different ways. Also note that they have very different objectives -- Witch has to find evils, cooperate with them, and sabotage Town in the process while surviving. All Klepto wants to do is gather information and find out who people are going to kill the next night. The only real harm Klepto does to town is deny some information that Forger and Janitor already could. It's not like they are using the information they are collecting to systematically kill Town.
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