Ret revive a disguiser

[89wizards]

Ret should be able to revive a disguised town to make the game more interesting.

[OllyRenard]

I agree with this completely

[oddluck]

Love it, anything to nerf that bloody Retri

[BlastingOff]

/support

This will make Retri think twice about reviving someone and will make Disguiser potentially better

[largewhale96]

This is a brilliant idea.

[itaicool]

Agree, this should only happen if the disguiser have died while disguising as a town role. But it should be allowed to do so.

[TehLonelyNinja]

/support

This'll be a definite buff to a disguiser, and will also make Retri more careful about who they revive

[Kyosji]

Honestly wish old disguiser was still around, as it is there's no real purpose of a disguiser.

[rdoukkali]

Honestly wish old disguiser was still around, as it is there's no real purpose of a disguiser.

The previous Disguiser just made loads of problems with the reports and trials system.

[TheDebil]

hell yeah brother

/support

[itaicool]

Honestly wish old disguiser was still around, as it is there's no real purpose of a disguiser.

How did old disguiser work? Can't seem to find info about it.

[Cinba]

Honestly wish old disguiser was still around, as it is there's no real purpose of a disguiser.

How did old disguiser work? Can't seem to find info about it.

Old disg could choose someone that would die that night and replace him, the Disg would appear to be killed in the morning but would have swapped bodies with whoever he choosed, the bad thing is that the other person last will would also be switched

[sunbird1002]

Basically, remember that you put names in your wills? I believe that was a meta game strategy against the Disguiser. Say that A is the Disguiser, and B is the victim to the Mafia's attack.

Here is what would happen.
A would choose B, as the mafia is attacking them.
Then, after B is killed, A would then make the corpse look like them (I guess), and then disguise as B.
The next day, it looks like that A has died. A is taking B's place in the game.
A's corpse will have B's role and will.

The problem there was that people the started to make wills like:
B the Sheriff
Please Read Name
N1-...

And this completely ruined disguiser, because now A's corpse died with B's role and will. So, now, even if it looks like A has died, the will reads
"B the Sheriff
Please Read Name
N1-..."

So, a smart town would then say.
"Look, A's body has B's will. This only happens if a Disguiser replaces someone. A is Disguiser, and right now A is in B's body!"
--------------
As for this change, it still doesn't fix key issues of the retributionist of being able to confirm so many things its not funny. The current disguiser can barely rustle up a convincing will, let alone find a role alone which is important enough to be revived. The old disguiser depended on Janitors and Forgers. The new one still depends on Consiglieres, for a weak effect. This change is a good step, but it won't change much at all. Currently, in TG, the Retributionist is being completely reworked.

[itaicool]

Hmm, yeah that sounds crazy that you get their name so you can break the rules and get them reported. However they could change it back mabye but it won't replace the names. If thats possible.

[Mikemk]

/support disguiser buff

[DragonClaw66]

I'd rather have the Retributionist and the Disguiser replaced or reworked because...

- This situation is unlikely and still leaves the Retributionist in an overpowered spot.
- The Disguiser is still horrible with this buff to it.

[Kikigiri]

I suggested this even before the new Disguisers were publicly released. I still think it's a good idea.

Disguisers need additional buffs, too. Some older ideas I had:

1. Disguiser visits shouldn't show up to the Spy. It's bad enough that disguisers have no effect on the spy, but to make each visit benefit the spy on top of that by confirming a non-Mafia is a bit much. Your whole purpose is to fool TI roles - it's silly to have your role be actively counterproductive when the TIs are spies.

2. A Vigilante who shoots a Disguiser who was disguised as a Town member should commit suicide. Yes, I know this is a pretty nasty effect (especially since it's possible the Vigilante's player could have caught the Disguiser dead-to-rights), but objectively I don't feel it's overpowered to give one Mafia role a way to potentially punish careless Vigilantes, and the reality is that Disguisers need interactions with more roles - the really big problem they have is that they currently interact with so few roles that they're often nearly useless while alive.

3. Disguisers fool Sheriffs. Again, same logic as above - if they're going to work as a role, they need to be able to fool more people. Remember that while this might make them hard-to-catch, catching the Mafia killers will cause the Disguiser to change to a detectable role; and they can still be caught via social deduction. Plenty of mafia get caught without Sheriff involvement - the reality is that the really big risk to Mafia is getting edged out by confirmed Town to the point where they're found by process of elimination. There are lots of extremely powerful roles that are undetectable to sheriffs; the game won't break by having one more very weak role who is also (almost) undetectable to Sheriffs.

4. If a Disguiser is investigated by someone who was fooled by their disguise, the Disguiser is told this and is informed what the other person saw. This allows them to know their own target's role, but only conditionally, not reliably. This is valuable because it lets a Disguiser know both that they've been seen (so they have to start faking a specific role) and what was seen (so they know what they have to start faking.) One major problem Disguisers have currently is that their ability can work against them - if an Invest sees you but you don't know what you were disguised as, you can get caught out very easily. If the role was incredibly powerful, you could justify requiring the work and knowledge necessary to know what you were disguised as without the system telling you - but they're very weak, instead.

5. An alternative buff to some of these is to give the disguiser two buttons. The first one chooses who to disguise as that night, and the second optional button lets you visit someone in that disguise. (You do not visit the person you disguise as.) Your visit doesn't actually do anything. The purpose here is obvious - in addition to all their current effects, disguisers would also fool Lookouts and Trappers (but not Trackers.)

[BlastingOff]

2. A Vigilante who shoots a Disguiser who was disguised as a Town member should commit suicide. Yes, I know this is a pretty nasty effect (especially since it's possible the Vigilante's player could have caught the Disguiser dead-to-rights), but objectively I don't feel it's overpowered to give one Mafia role a way to potentially punish careless Vigilantes, and the reality is that Disguisers need interactions with more roles - the really big problem they have is that they currently interact with so few roles that they're often nearly useless while alive.

I agree with everything you suggested but I am a bit hesitant on that, I do not think Vigilante is this OP to need to make it more underpowered. Also, I have heard that buffs that are based on nerfs on another roles are no-no but not 100% sure

I also see 5 as kind of op but I'm not gonna elaborate much due to mixed feelings

[itaicool]

I agree with with the buffs you mention from 1-3. I have another buff idea which is when the disguiser disguse as someone they will know 3 possible roles of the target (No this is not like investigator results, this is totally random but can still help.

Example: You disguise as a medium (You don't know that), You get the results- "The person you disguised as could be, "Medium, X, X"(This is random, it could also be "X, X, Medium" or X, Medium, X) The "X" are a random role, they could be any role, that includes anything. One of them is your target role and 2 random roles which won't be the same all the games but will still like look like that every time for that specific person.

Another idea would be that you know what class is the person you disguised as, For example when you disguise as someone you will get a message based on what class they are:

"The person you disguised as is a Town investigate" if their role is part of the town investigators team,you will get this message,
"The person you disguised as is a Town Protective" Same thing as the other one but this message will appear if your target is part of the TP.

I think the idea is clear so I won't write the rest but it works for all the town teams, but if your target isn't a town you will get a message

"The person you disguised as is not part of the town, however you can't seem to find what they are", that could be any netural or coven. That will appear when you disguise as Netural Bengin, Netural Choas and the rest of the neturals aswell as disguising coven vampires and other teams.

[Brilliand]

I'd rather have the Retributionist and the Disguiser replaced or reworked because...

- This situation is unlikely and still leaves the Retributionist in an overpowered spot.
- The Disguiser is still horrible with this buff to it.

Agreed. At the same time, I think the change proposed in this thread would be a good change (until a more thorough rework makes it moot).