Role Idea: Duellist/Musketeer (Town Protective) Changed

[sunbird1002]

Basically a ripoff crusader. Yay, how fun.

Name:
Duellist

Role Alignment:
Town Protective

Goal:
Lynch all criminals and evildoers.

Wins with:
Town
Survivors
Loses with all else.

Abilities:
Visit someone, duelling them, or one of the killers who visit.

Attributes:
You will have 2 checkboxes.
You may choose either the first or both rows to do different actions.
If you get Witched, then your first checkbox will be redirected.
If you get Witched, your second checkbox will not get affected, whether you chose it or not.
You will remember the people you duelled if you are Revived by a Retributionist.

Duelling Opponents:
2 checkboxes chosen.
You will duel both the people you chose.
You will inform scum with killing abilities if they have been duelled.
Scum who can kill later (unpromoted Mafia), will be informed on their promotion.
The Duellist can only remember the last 6 people they duelled.

Protecting:
You will need 1 checkbox.
You will protect your target.
If someone visits with killing intent, you will ambush them.
If they weren't previously duelled, you will be killed by them and protect your target.
If they were previously duelled, you will kill them and protect your target.
The ambush order is MafiaKilling>Neutral Killing>TownKilling

So, what does this all mean?
Example 1:
Spoiler: The Duellist chooses the Doctor only. No one attacks.
Result: No one is duelled

Example 2:
Spoiler: The Duellist chooses the Mafioso only. No one attacks.
Result: No one is duelled. The Musketeer can only duel when not protecting.

Example 3:
Spoiler: The Duellist chooses both the Doctor and an 'unduelled' Mafioso The Doctor is attacked by the Serial Killer.
Result: The Musketeer duels the Mafioso, making him 'duelled'. However, as the Musketeer cannot protect when he chooses 2 people, the Doctor dies, and the Serial Killer leaves 'unduelled'.

Example 4:
Spoiler: The Duellist chooses both the 'unduelled' Serial Killer and the 'duelled' Godfather. Neither is attacked.
Result: The Serial Killer is duelled. The Godfather has been chosen before, however, so, the Duellist doesn't duel the Godfather. Choosing two unduelled scum is the only way the Duellist can duel two people in one night.

Example 5:
Spoiler: The Duellist chooses only the Godfather. An 'unduelled' Vigilante and 'duelled' Serial Killer visit the Godfather.
Result: The Godfather cannot be duelled here. The Duellist is protecting the Godfather.
So, this is a case of the preferred duel order, as this method of duelling can only have one duel happen per night. As the Vigilante is not the preferred duel here, as the Serial Killer is both naturally higher in the duel order and also has been duelled before, the Godfather is 'saved' from the Serial Killer, as the Serial Killer is killed. As the Vigilante overpowers the Duellist, theDuellist dies protecting their target. The Vigilante, didn't shoot the Duellist, they don't die of guilt.

Example 6:
Spoiler: The Duellist has had a busy game. It is the 3rd night, and the Duellist has visited the Doctor, Serial Killer on Night 1, and the Godfather and Consigliere on night 2. He visits the Bodyguard and Lookout.
Result:
Lets split up what happened in the nights.
Night 1:
The Serial Killer gets the 'You have been duelled!' message, and is on their first duel. The Doctor hasn't been duelled, and gets no message, as they are Town. The Duellist's list is Doctor, Serial Killer
Night 2:
The Godfather gets the 'You have been duelled!' message, and is on their first duel. The Consigliere gets no message, and cannot be killed by the Duellist until they become the Mafioso. If the Consigliere is forgotten by the Duellist before this, then they get no message. The Duellist's list is Doctor, Serial Killer, Godfather, Consigliere.

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Your target is Not Suspicious
Investigator: Your target focuses on others. They must be a Lookout, DuellistForger orWitch.
Consigliere: Your target is a master of all types of weapons. They must be a Duellist!

[Mystoc]

the idea is to visit the killer first, and then if u predict who the killer will attack once you visit them u will kill them and stay alive,
you would still die to a WW ramapge though right like how it works with doc or no?

this is hard to do but the reward is worth it good balance so far
next, it has a vet alert but again you must have visited the killer before


this role can kill vig and jailor, but the question what about TP with killing potential like BG, will this role kill BG crus trapper ect.. i noticed you left TP out of your priority list

-the main prob with this role is its mostly just luck if u visit a killer early on
-because if u knew someone was the killer u would just have them hanged

-so really this role is hugely scum reading and a mix of luck, u would only not hang a person if u weren't sure they werent evil or u dont have majority

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idea that is annoying me you say if u have visited them before you loose the duel and they overpower you and kill the other person but that makes no sesne lore wise or game wise, lore wise if an evil killer overpowered you ofc they would kill you not leave alone to go kill the other person, game wise a protection role should die instead of the person they are protecting, u staying alive makes no sense

this would also add a penalty for protecting against a towns attack and make it more in line with how BG works with vig



instead you should do this

if you get overpowered and lose the duel, you die instead of the person you were protecting
-The killer weak from the fight retreats to go heal up instead of trying to go on

(last part maybe add this may be too strong)
-a killer with no defense can perform no killing action (mafia who havent been promoted can still do their non killing roles) they are weaker and need rest a night
-killers with a defense can do their killing action the next night (like NK and GF they are tougher so dont need to rest) but if they do act they lose that defense for that night only

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lastly change the name it makes no sense it sounds more like TK then TP, the name should reflect protecting/ close quarters fighting

like duelist or knight or deputy ect,,

overall good idea sun!

[greenrabbit7]

Tbh mystoc’s change would make this a nerfed bg, but I do agree with him.

[Mystoc]

Tbh mystoc’s change would make this a nerfed bg, but I do agree with him.

thats only if u havent visited the killer yet though, if u did visit the killer its a BG who doesnt die

worst case secnario its a worst BG but still saves someone, best case scenario its a crusader with amolst none of the drawbacks

[sunbird1002]

The annoying thing about that idea of course is that 1 of the mechanics is that you duel with visitors of your target. This means that if the Godfather visits the Jailor, then the Jailor dies, but tge Godfather is 'duelled' once, so the Musketeer/duellist can defeat that role later.

However, perhaps that is not really protective, and, I of course can change the person who dies. Then it turns to a slightly more swingy BG, but its not as if this isn't swingy to start with.

The reason why TP isn't on the list is that it doesn't visit to kill your target. I can put it on though.

[Mystoc]

u say this

Abilities: Visit someone, duelling them, or duelling all who visit.

but then u say this later on

You can only duel one person per night, in the order Second duel Mafia>Neutral Killing>Town Killing>First duel Mafia>Neutral Killing>Town Killing

which is it?

[Parallax7]

I actually don’t dislike this role. It’s pretty unique, and fresh. It’s fairly balanced, what it lacks in protection capability, it compensates with kill capability. This is a little odd - since it’s first priority should be protection, as a Town Protective role, but this is some out of the box thinking.

To mitigate this, allow it to target two players, and provide it a different option for each target.

- Guard one player each night, duel another.
- Guarding a player, will cause you to lacerate them if they are a kill capable role; you will instead lacerate the visitor of the player if the targeted player is not kill capable, and the visitor is.
- Dueling a player, will wound them, if they visit your initial target.
- Guarding a kill capable role will only lacerate, you must duel them to kill them, I.E guarding a Mafioso twice will not kill them; however the first targeting will lacerate them.
-You can’t guard and duel the same player.
- You must lacerate and wound a player to kill them, or wound them twice.
- You will role block, and kill the killer upon their second wound, or wound following a laceration. Saving the player from the attacker.
- You will only be informed you successfully guarded a player, never that you wounded a player.

Example

You target (guard), A the Serial Killer.
You also target (duel), B the Mafioso, who visits the Serial Killer.
The Serial Killer will be lacerated and Mafioso the will be wounded.

The Serial Killer will be killed upon visiting one of your guarded targets.
- The Serial Killer will be guarded upon you dueling them, successfully.
- The Mafioso will be killed upon visiting your guarded targets, or you wounding them.

You target (guard) A - Escort, whom is visited by B - Serial Killer.
You also target (duel) duel B - Serial Killer.

Serial Killer will be fought off, and killed.

Note: You can kill non killers, by wounding them more than once.

[sunbird1002]

This is the weird ground which this role lies upon. It can be seen as both a possible TP and a TK. I did see Nightwatcher, a role which was unanimously rejected by TG in the Analyses phase. I can see that it has been ruled a 'weaker Vigilante', so, is this fine? Paralax, I have thought of doing this role as a double ability, and perhaps Ill think about it. I understand your idea, Paralax, and how it isn't dissimilar to mine (though worded differently). I'm currently not sure on its downside of killing non killing roles, just because that can make it more into a Town Killing. Also, splitting the abilities mean that it doesn't suffer from the current downside of, if this role is to be at its most effective, it needs to keep important roles unprotected. However, just when typing this, I already have a small idea. I will keep the current role as a Version 1. I have perhaps a mixture overhaul as Version 2, between both of our ideas.

Mystoc, that disparity is created because some of my ideas about a role only come up while in the middle of making it! I was going to make it duel all killing roles, before I backed up because I realised it would then be almost like a Town Rampage ability, which is icky. Ill get to Version 2.

[Mystoc]

Spoiler: Abilities: Visit someone, duelling them, or one of the killers who visit.

Attributes: You will get 2 checkboxes, like a Transporter.
If only one checkbox is chosen, then you will guard that person, (You do not duel them) duelling with their visitors in this order Second duel Mafia>Neutral Killing>Town Killing>First duel Mafia>Neutral Killing>Town Killing
Scum will know if they have been 'dueled'
You can only duel with people who are kill capable, or can be (so, Mafia members awaiting promotion count)
If you duel with someone once, then nothing will happen, only that the scum will be 'dueled'
Chivalry will prevent you from duelling someone by choosing them again.
You will kill your target on your second duel with them (can only happen of they visit the person you guard with killing intent).
If someone previously unduelled visits to kill your target, you will die instead.
If 2 checkboxes are chosen, then you will not protect either target.
If either target is kill capable, and hasn't been duelled with before, then you will duel with them (This is the only way you can duel with 2 people in one night)
You will not duel the attackers of either target, if they are attacked.
Self Select (1 time):
If a killing role visits you, you will duel with them

add some spaces/headers to that, that's one smushed paragraph of info dump sun

so its weaker to vet and medusa since it can double visit how does being witched work which target changes first or second or are u just forced to protect since whitch cant do a double target,

all in all i like this version much much better two checks a night is pretty strong though i would give it 2 charges of Observing two people and protecting gives 1 charge back but resting or self vesting gives them both back

and 1 charge used = is the night action of watching two people in one night
NOT each person watched costs a charge in single night that would be too weak

the name/lore is still shit though, a town role who randomly goes around requesting duels makes no sense and how does a musketeer duel someone a first time with a gun without killing them? I'm picturing like some old western here where they both draw guns and shoot each other type deal

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i just thought of a good name/lore for this role

Sentinel - a soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.

heres the idea behind the lore

the first time you watch your target(s) from afar to their observes their weapons of choice, habits, and mannerisms ect.. so you are better prepared to fight them if you ever meet them when on guard duty

-when you encounter them again but close up u know what to expect and are prepared to fight close quarters and win the duel
-if you haven't observed them before you are unprepared and die but put up a good fight since your a seasoned soldier but also end wounding the attacker forcing them to retreat for that night

-self vest same idea you go on alert and are more/less prepared based on the fact you know combat info on your attacker

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man i should just do peoples lore so their roles abilities make sense designing new roles is harrrrd

[sunbird1002]

Did a slight nerf.

The Duellist can only have 4 people manually duelled at one time (manual duelling is with the double checkboxes). Duelling more people will make the Duellist 'forget' the first 2.

Is this OK? Or is Mystoc's charge idea better? I will make a poll for that.

[sunbird1002]

Can I have more feedback on this please?