Jester Nerf

[zflo34]

Please nerf the jester where they don't target abstaining voters.

It's absolutely stupid how much they can mess with your game (especially if you're townie), yet you have to vote innocent on them for them to survive. It just makes them a pest.

They're annoying enough, and now I have to vote innocent and keep them in the game to perpetually pester me and the rest of my teammates? It's ridiculous. It's a lose-lose.

And then if I vote innocent on a mafia or serial killer because I thought they were jester, I have to explain that away too? You can't win like that. Your only hope at that point is that there is still a vigilante or jailor who is able to take a night off and deal with them, and considering that either of those roles could die N1 and that it's a 50/50 between whether or not you get a vigilante or veteran, it's quite ridiculous.

And for the jailor to take a night off to execute this pest when he only has three executions and 4 evil roles to kill before they kill him, is just horribly in favor of mafia and serial killer when they don't need any such help.

The only way town wins a game is if they get terribly lucky, or if an evil role or two leave.

The reasons for limiting a jester's kills to guilty voters outweigh the reasons for letting the jester kill any non-innocent voters.

[sunbird1002]

People here are thinking about making jester Neutral Benign, as it doesnt win with seeing town lose, like witch does. This change would mean jester would be out of ranked anyway.

Now, time for some facts.
1. Town by far has the highest winrate in the game. Saying that Mafia and Serial killer 'dont need such help' is plain wrong
2. As you have singled out Serial Killer, I can guess you are playing on classic. Town of Salem is balanced around ranked, and classic is a decent introduction to the game. However, classic has people who aren't using their deduction to their fullest. There, the rolelist favours town even more. Again, even in ranked, town has a far larger chance of winning. Scum (evil roles) need all the help they could get.
3. Some of these arguments are both your mistakes and are caused by the role. Yes, Jester allows evil roles to act evil and still be excused. Thats part of the Make Jester NB movement. But innoing evil roles all the time is far from the roles fault. Its your choice to inno. You should pay the price of bad gameplay.
4. Its curious that while you mentioned a 50/50 chance for TKs, you forget the 100% chance of Jailor. If these evil roles are so convincing jesters that you inno them, then the Jailor should be executing them.
5. The change was implemented to stop several strategies occuring, such as 'taking the hit'. That strategy is bad for the game because:
It allows town to plan around Jester, while Mafia cant as effectively gain
It allowed transporters to kill selected targets
It rewarded the Jester for bad play. If he was obvious enough for people to 'take the hit', why should he win?

The change disallows these pro town strategies, which made people want to kill the jester. Instead, now jester is a pest, and a successful one. If the punishment before could become an upside, then it isn't really a punishment...

[BasicFourLife]

Please nerf the jester where they don't target abstaining voters.

It's absolutely stupid how much they can mess with your game (especially if you're townie), yet you have to vote innocent on them for them to survive. It just makes them a pest.

They're annoying enough, and now I have to vote innocent and keep them in the game to perpetually pester me and the rest of my teammates? It's ridiculous. It's a lose-lose.

And then if I vote innocent on a mafia or serial killer because I thought they were jester, I have to explain that away too? You can't win like that. Your only hope at that point is that there is still a vigilante or jailor who is able to take a night off and deal with them, and considering that either of those roles could die N1 and that it's a 50/50 between whether or not you get a vigilante or veteran, it's quite ridiculous.

And for the jailor to take a night off to execute this pest when he only has three executions and 4 evil roles to kill before they kill him, is just horribly in favor of mafia and serial killer when they don't need any such help.

The only way town wins a game is if they get terribly lucky, or if an evil role or two leave.

The reasons for limiting a jester's kills to guilty voters outweigh the reasons for letting the jester kill any non-innocent voters.

Town has around 80% winrate confirmed by statistics.

[KAKERMAN23]

Jester is neutral evil, which is a faction that is generally there to hinder town, rather than help it. If it makes it harder for town because the jailor needs to kill the jester rather than a mafia or the serial killer, then that's just another reason to hang them. Also, you need to remember that the jester can only kill one person when they are lynched, so it's not like everyone who didn't vote innocent is 100% going to die from the jester. BMG buffed the jester for a reason, it doesn't really make sense to take it away.

[oddluck]

Hey guys, this is Jester. Let's lynch him and I will take the hit

vs

This could be Jester, Jailor inno