Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing) Overhauled

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Is this role TG worthy?

Yes, its a 5 star role
2
100%
No, I have said why it needs changes
0
No votes
No, I have said why tye core mechanic is broken/bad
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 2

Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing) Overhauled

Postby sunbird1002 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:21 am

This for me is nostalgia. My 5th ever role, and my 1st positively received role Ghost is basically sharing ideas with this one. Of course, that was 2015, when WW didn't even have full immunity. I have decided to remake this role, even if it might be not as good.

Name: Spirit

Role Alignment: Neutral Killing

Goal: Take revenge on all who will not side with you.

Wins with: Spirits
Witches
Survivors
Loses with all else.

Abilities: Kill someone at night, or stay at home to give protection for that and the next night.

Attributes: You have no natural night immunity.
If you stay at home, you will recieve basic immunity for that and the next 2 nights.
You will also recieve detection immunity for that and the next 2 nights.
While you are detection immune, you will appear NS to Sheriffs.
While detection immune, Investigators and Consiglieres will be fooled by Spirit's assumed role.
Your attacks are undetectable to Trackers and Lookouts while you are detection immune.
If you are roleblocked while you arent night immune, it will count as abstaining from an attack.
You are roleblock immune while you are detection immune.
You can attack from jail, if you are detection immune, then the Jailor will not know of the attack.
If you are not detection immune, the Jailor will get a notification that the Spirit attacked from Jail.
Assumed Roles Attributes:
Day Ability.
Choose anyone, Dead or Alive, to become your assumed role.
While you are detection immune, you will find out your target's role from this visit.
When you are detection immune you will appear to visit your target to Lookouts and Trackers if you choose an alive target.
If you are detection immune and an Investigator or Consigliere (but not Witch) investigate you, you will gain your assumed target's results.
The person you choose will only effect your results on the next night if you are detection immune.
If you don't choose anyone, or choose yourself, you will stay at home.
Staying at home keeps your most recent assumed target's results, and you cannot be tracked or seen visiting your own house by Lookouts or Trackers.
If you don't have detection immunity from not killing, the normal Spirit results will show instead.
(TG interactions)
Spoiler: If you are detection immune, whether you get drenched by a Rain Dancer depends on whether you visit someone for their assumed role. You wont be drenched if you stay at home.
If you are detection immune, you will be grouped as Town to Scientists. This will change if, on the next night, you aren't detection immune.
If you are detection immune, an Interviewer will see you as your assumed Target's role.
If you are detection immune, then your assumed target visit will not count as Mysterious to a Miller.
Even if you are detection immune, the Oracle will still reveal the Spirit
.

Priority: 5 (Normal kill without detection immunity)
4 (Assumed target visit)
1 (Detection immune kill)

Example:
Spirit abstains from killing N1. This means that:
N1:
Has basic immunity
Fools all TIs
Can be roleblocked (makes no difference anyway)
(Can't attack from jail, its abstaining)
Will know role from day visit
N2:
Has basic immunity
Fools all TIs
Can attack from Jail, no notification
Roleblock immune
Will know role from day visit
N3:
Has basic immunity
Fools all TIs
Roleblocke immune
Can attack from jail, no notification
Will know role from day visit
N4 onwards until it abstains from killing again
No Immunity
Doesn't fool any TIs
Can be roleblocked
Can Attack from Jail, there will be a notification
Day visit doesn't matter.


Investigation Results:
Sheriff: Your target is a Spirit! (If not detection immune)
Your target is not suspicious. (If it is detection immune)
Investigator: Your target causes trouble. They must be a Framer, Spirit, Hex master, Jester or Vampire. (If not detection immune)
If it is, gets the assumed targets invest results.
Consigliere: Your target is an empty shell. They must be a Spirit! (If it isn't detection immune.)
If it is, it gets the assumed target's invest results.


Change Log:
Spoiler: 10th August: Role is created
12th August: Role is understandably considered OP.

1st changes
Changed the disguise kill from Day Ability to being the first kill.
Changed detection and night immunity. Now, instead of the Spirit not attacking N1, and being detection immune and night immune for N1, N2, N3, it now only will be detection and night immune for N2 and N3.
Disguise ability will use up disguise and fail if a Mafia member or immune role was targetted

2nd changes
Replaced Disguise ability with a better assumed role mechanic.
Made it so abstaining from killing gives immunity for that and the next night (If it doesn't kill N1, it will gain immunity N1 and N2)
3rd changes
Seperated times for night and detection immunity.
Made it so it didnt hard counter so many roles.
Created Poll about what should change.

13th August
Many minor changes through my head.
Cannot decide if detection immunity should last for 2 or 3 nights.
Created poll to resolve the matter

17th August:
Created Consigliere Ability
Bumped topic

18th August:
Nerfed detection immunity due to the poll.

30th August:
Buffed Night immunity from 2 nights to 3 nights
Tied roleblock immunity and jailed attacks to detection immunity.
Last edited by sunbird1002 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:43 am, edited 31 times in total.
Image

Name: Harvey Greater
Suspicion Level: High
Favourite Occupations: Transporter, Investigator, Jester
Least Favourite Occupation: Mafioso, Consort, Escort

Most recent Role Idea:
Soothsayer
sunbird1002
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 4:59 pm

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing)

Postby fwogcarf » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:26 am

Interesting... Couple of questions though

1. When you stay at home for the first night to give protection, are you allowed to visit the next night and kill or do you have to stay at home?
2. Does the Spirit assume the role of the person it killed?
3. Why does disguising kill people? "You will attack and replace your target" (Personally I think it's a little OP)
Spoiler: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M79vYZu-WIKrW0WQ0pCISBq66DeBfSir5T7RCuy0OWY/edit?usp=sharing
We are creators of our own future


We are supporters of forces against despair


We defend against the evils of the world


We are guardians, we are strong
User avatar
fwogcarf
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing)

Postby sunbird1002 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:34 am

1. You get protection for that and the next 2 nights. You are free to kill during the next few nights.
2. Not usually. It has a 1 time disguise kill ability, which can be removed, if its too OP.
Image

Name: Harvey Greater
Suspicion Level: High
Favourite Occupations: Transporter, Investigator, Jester
Least Favourite Occupation: Mafioso, Consort, Escort

Most recent Role Idea:
Soothsayer
sunbird1002
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 4:59 pm

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing)

Postby fwogcarf » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:36 am

Ah, I see. Thank you
Spoiler: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M79vYZu-WIKrW0WQ0pCISBq66DeBfSir5T7RCuy0OWY/edit?usp=sharing
We are creators of our own future


We are supporters of forces against despair


We defend against the evils of the world


We are guardians, we are strong
User avatar
fwogcarf
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing)

Postby Blackwolfe99 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:10 pm

sunbird1002 wrote:This for me is nostalgia. My 5th ever role, and my 1st positively received role Ghost is basically sharing ideas with this one. Of course, that was 2015, when WW didn't even have full immunity. I have decided to remake this role, even if it might be not as good.

Name: Spirit

Role Alignment: Neutral Killing

Goal: Take revenge on all who will not side with you.

Wins with: Spirits
Witches
Survivors
Loses with all else.

Abilities: Kill someone at night, or stay at home to give protection for the next 2 nights.

Attributes: You have no natural night immunity.
If you stay at home, you will recieve basic immunity for that and the next 2 nights.
You will also recieve detection immunity from Sheriffs, Investigators and Consiglieres, through the Spirit's assumed role for the next 2 nights
Your attacks are undetectable to Trackers and Lookouts Ninja NK, alright.
You are roleblock immune, and can attack while in Jail. No one can do anything in jail, so why should this be able to?
Disguising Attributes:
You can only disguise once
Disguising is a Day Ability, where you can choose people like Jailor
You will attack and replace your target
Your previous body will die, showing its role as Spirit
The person you replaced does count as a death, but the Spirit talks as him in the death chat, without seeing the chat itself
The replaced person's role can become the Spirit's assumed role, if the Spirit abstains from killing after this death. OP version of the old disguiser mechanic.

Special Attributes:
Assumed roles: The Spirit's assumed role is the role of the last person they killed before they abstained from killing.
Once the Spirit abstains, the assumed results will stay the same every time it has detection immunity.
The investigation results of the Spirit from the Investigator and Consigliere will mirror the assumed role's investigation results.
This only happens if the Spirit abstained from killing anywhere in the past 2 nights.
The assumed role is reset after the disguise.

Investigation Results:
Sheriff: Your target is a Spirit! (If it didn't abstaim from killing in the past 2 nights)
Your target is not suspicious. (If it did abstain from killing in the past 2 nights)
Investigator: Your target causes trouble. They must be a Framer, Spirit, Hex master, Jester or Vampire. (If it didnt abstain from killing in past 2 nights)
If it did, it geta the assumed targets invest results.
Consigliere: Your target is an empty shell. They must be a Spirit! (If it didn't abstain from killing in the past 2 nights.)
If it did, it gets the assumed target's invest results.


Perhaps this is overcomplicated. I can always remove the disguising ability, as it creates problems. I just think that this role can work, but maybe I was as maive then as I am now. The poll is there for a quick opinion, but taking the time to leave comments on improvement is appreciated.

Overall, remove the disguising ability or make it only able to disguise its target's role, and this would be a great role.
Image




Currently Working On:
-Nothing now. A several month hiatus lead to me abandoning my ideas.

EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW

/support
User avatar
Blackwolfe99
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:01 pm
Location: Watching over others from the Shadows.

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:05 pm

.66 kills to keep defense and sherrif and LO and tracker immunity AND Has roleblock immunity AND can body hop once...


did i miss anything yeaaaa this role can yolo and keep 1 kpn too late game and loose defense ect

its easly best NK strength wise ever made to strong /nosupport
User avatar
Mystoc
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 4:53 pm

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing)

Postby sunbird1002 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:52 pm

Cool, I knew that perhaps the disguiser ability is too much. Ill nerf the immunity of this role, and the ability. Thanks for the feedback. I really needed it, as you can see xD.

I guess the jail ability was more suitable for Ghost than Spirit. Ghost had it that either you were immune, or you attacked, so it needed all the help it can get. Shuld I nerf it down to Ghost levels? I mean, that is currently a UP, but salvagable role. I think this is an OP, but salvagable role. I need to strike that balance.
Image

Name: Harvey Greater
Suspicion Level: High
Favourite Occupations: Transporter, Investigator, Jester
Least Favourite Occupation: Mafioso, Consort, Escort

Most recent Role Idea:
Soothsayer
sunbird1002
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 4:59 pm

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing) Overhauled

Postby sunbird1002 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:34 pm

I didn't overhaul this role just for it to be ignored. I have made many major changes, the most recent being a Consigliere style ability only when its detection immune, so that this role knows what to claim N1. I can see that some people find this role overpowered, but I sadly differ on the subject. The role's KPN is 0.5 per night, if it wants to be constantly immune, which is very low. If it wants to be detection immune constantly, at the cost of being immune on every 3rd night, then it rises to 0.66 KPN, and if it just wants to be risky, it can rise more, but at a large cost. It also cannot fool loads of TI roles at the same time, as if it visits lots, then its results would appear inconsistent to the Investigator, yet if it visits the same person over and over, it appears strange to a Lookout. However, of course, it visiting itself can solve problems, but it means that it gets less information about roles that it could count as being important targets. I actually really like this balance, as, really, if Town is working together to investigate one person, then perhaps it should get a reward.

Just my point of view. It can still be found with a role-call, which is... not great, but the consigliere ability I think balances it, as, while it kills less, it may be able to fake roles better, as well as find key targets to kill. I will take feedback gladly on this role, though, as most of the balance came from my biased head.
Image

Name: Harvey Greater
Suspicion Level: High
Favourite Occupations: Transporter, Investigator, Jester
Least Favourite Occupation: Mafioso, Consort, Escort

Most recent Role Idea:
Soothsayer
sunbird1002
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 4:59 pm

Re: Role Idea: Spirit (Neutral Killing) Overhauled

Postby sunbird1002 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:41 pm

Is the role perfect, as I am getting so little feedback? I do want something like this to work. I know that detection immunity vs KPN roles don't usually have a good enough tradeoff. However, I think changing the detection immune/night immune numbers in the correct way can get tge blen just right. Currently, the role certainly isn't OP, as it gives nights for detection, detection immunity and night immunity. But perhaps the numbers need to be changed still.
Image

Name: Harvey Greater
Suspicion Level: High
Favourite Occupations: Transporter, Investigator, Jester
Least Favourite Occupation: Mafioso, Consort, Escort

Most recent Role Idea:
Soothsayer
sunbird1002
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 4:59 pm


Return to Role Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest