Retributionist Town Protective

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Retributionist Town Protective

Postby Parallax7 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:33 pm

*This role’s lore is entirely assuming Retributionist becomes Trauma Patient ~ allowing for the former’s lore and concept to be reworked entirely.

Trauma Patient
Spoiler: Town Amnesiac. Self explanatory.

**This role’s concept was taken from the Mafia Universe website. Here is the original role. Time Bandit.

***This role is still in the proto-stages. I know it is conceptually sound, but I know not the degree of which. I ask you provide feedback and suggest needed changes.

Role Name
Retributionist

Role Alignment
Town(Protective)

Summary
You are a skilled mystic who can reanimate the dead.

Abilities
-Cast a spell onto a player each night, your spell will only work if they die.

Attributes
-You will clean players you cast a spell on, and they may not communicate with the dead and medium, until you're in the graveyard.
-You will resurrect all players you’ve successfully casted a spell onto upon being successfully attacked or incinerated, this action is 1st priority. (Disruption Immune)
-You will NOT resurrect any players upon being lynched, but instead reveal their information.
-Your cleaning notification is identical to that of a Janitor's.
-You may choose to commit suicide, reanimating all players with a spell casted onto them, this can be disrupted.

I know this role is somewhat easily confirmable, but take a moment to reflect on the fact, that EVERY town protective is.

I would like feedback, I love this role's concept.
Last edited by Parallax7 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:44 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:11 pm

what happens if you and your target die the same night does it count and rez them since you died, would they just never die and stay alive or what?

-You will clean players you cast a spell on, and they may not communicate with a medium, until you're in the graveyard.


but dead can just say what cleaned player says to meduim for them so really its an ez work around

i assume ret can end up rezing evils now otherwise there would be no point in cleaning the role or disabling meduim, correct?





really hope this a typo

-You may choose to commit suicide, reanimating all players with a spell casted onto them,


im seeing the word players not player implying it can rez more then one person yea no

Edit i see now it MAY be ok if it can do multiple how it would make up for the rest of the roles weaknesses getting a two value revive though is very nice and 3 is OP


========================================================================

major problem: any good player will just choose suicide right away since basically the role is a citizen with no abilities it is always better to rez the role then wait to die

and each day its alive and doing nothing you are denying town a info on the dead person role and preventing them to using their ability

you could argue this role could try to bait an evil attack (kinda opposite of vet baiting) thus taking away a kill and rezing at the same time being even more useful that way

new strengths im seeing
wants to die at night can bait attacks and die and rez at same time
-its the only town role who wants to die at night so it be a very vocal leader in leading town once its rez is secured
-rez cant be roleblocked this way (can the manual rez choice be roleblocked?)
roles who arent this role can bluff and say they are ret to avoid being attacked by evils

new weaknesses im seeing
-since the death must be predicted the night it happens the role is much weaker, since it cant rez anyone its much more likey to die before its rez happens (old ret rezes n2) this ret cant rez till it predicts a death which can take much longer then n2, if this role dies before then it did nothing (same as other TP true but it weaker then other TP by alot will explain more later)
-choice of rez must be pre chosen before death of person not chosen after death this a huge nerf which i like
doesnt solve jailor meta of day one reveal but hey its start
-before rez is triggered the dead chosen is cleaned and cant talk to dead-
-can rez day after but must die in exchange
(the common suggestion of nerf but gives the player the choice to trigger it with this version)
-lastly assuming im correct in my interruption can accidently rez evils now

=======================================================


-the biggest nerf im seeing is making this town protection its horribly weak for town protection it has one save the could be looked has delayed heal in my books that can only be used once and to trigger the heal you must die

this kills the role it needs to say town support

compare this to BG

BG has one attack/one save
ret- has no attack / one save (heal is unstoppable unlike bg but has condition on you cant be hanged and is a delayed heal)

BG dies to kill attacker and save target
Ret dies to save target and kills no one (the save/heal happens one the rets death so its delayed but same premise implies

the rets heal could be viewed has a heal that make the target unable to speak or use abilities or be targeted until the ret dies

its only advantage over the bg is while the ret has the heal delayed the target cannot be tarted again since it "dead" so like you put them in stasis till you die, there is also the downside of the heal not happening if hanged

i hope you can see how this rework is trash has TP,

its a delayed heal that makes the ret die and the target unable to do anything until the heal happens, and it might not happen at all if ret is hanged , horrible when compared to BG who kills an evil and heals right away

needs to be changed back to town support or the rework is dead

=================================================

also making ret seem like janitor makes meduim even shiter cause now both rets and janitors abilities cause cleans making the role even more untrusted with sharing the same invest result and all bad side effect i think
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:57 pm

Its power really varies, im not sure but I like it. Glad it’s finally done

(Totally not a bump post)
If Shapesifter13 tells you that your suggestion will be considered, it never will.
If you’re making a post, thinking you’re gonna impact the game, you won’t.
If you make an another fucking thread about the poor state of the game, you should move on.
If you suggest that Firefighter be added to the game or the fact that Retributionist should die when they resurrect, I will personally murder you instead.

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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:22 pm

Spells should work with scum, scum getting cleaned wouldn't be a problem if they got revived this is far too overpowered all targets that get revived will all be town that are confirmed.

Other protective's protect scum
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby Parallax7 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:05 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:Spells should work with scum, scum getting cleaned wouldn't be a problem if they got revived this is far too overpowered all targets that get revived will all be town that are confirmed.

Other protective's protect scum


Yes but other protectives, seek to keep a role/player alive to keep their impact on the game in tact. This role profits off of bringing the impact BACK. Warranting it not interacting with non-town.

BasicFourLife wrote:Its power really varies, im not sure but I like it. Glad it’s finally done

(Totally not a bump post)


Worth testing in TG. Roles like this one embody the purpose of TG.
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby david23400 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:38 pm

I don't really like this role, and here's why:
It is very swingy, as in it relies if said person is killed or not; it relies on: Knowing if that person is going to be killed at night, and if that person isn't protected.
When they do die, they are cleaned, and this means info lost for town +1 Negative Utility
It can also cast a spell on any type of role, and it has a chance of reviving more evils than towns +1 Negative Utility
It disables that player's ability to talk to any dead person or medium, and they cant say their info or anything.
Easily claimable by janitor, and when there is a ret claim, they are way more suspectable to vig and jailor, and can be executed, which in turn might revive people which can also be evil.

I know I repeated a lot of points, but my point is this rework is bad and unbalanced for the most part. Period.
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby greenrabbit7 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:25 pm

I don't know how much I like this as it can ressurect more then one person. I love this game but I don't know if I'd want the retri to have spell'd six people on n9 or revive the entire mafia.
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby lemonader666 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:07 am

david23400 wrote:It is very swingy, as in it relies if said person is killed or not; it relies on: Knowing if that person is going to be killed at night, and if that person isn't protected

Sheriff is very swingy, as it relies if said person is killed or not
Doctor is very swingy, as it relies if said person is killed or not
Escort is very swingy, as it relies if said person is killed or not
Vigilante is very swingy, as it relies if said person is killed or not
david23400 wrote:When they do die, they are cleaned, and this means info lost for town +1 Negative Utility

When TPs protect people succesfully, they do not flip, and this means info lost for town +1 Negative Utility
david23400 wrote:It can also cast a spell on any type of role, and it has a chance of reviving more evils than towns +1 Negative Utility

TPs can protect any type of role, and they have a chance of protecting more evils than towns +1 Negative Ultility
david23400 wrote:It disables that player's ability to talk to any dead person or medium, and they cant say their info or anything.

TPs disable that player's ability to talk to any dead person and they cant say their info or anything
david23400 wrote:Easily claimable by janitor, and when there is a ret claim, they are way more suspectable to vig and jailor, and can be executed, which in turn might revive people which can also be evil

That's a good thing
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby sunbird1002 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:34 am

Still a weaker doc IMO. Say that Doctor saves 1 person. Now, thats +1 extra town, if the attack succeeded. If that attack is done by mafia, now that person is confirmed not mafia (unless witch or transporter is in game), and the Doctor can confirm themselves, but this is counterclaimable.

If this saves one person, in voting, its a -1 for most of the game. When the retri dies, it only brings back 1 town member, getting that -1 extra town into a 0, which isn't really very helpful. You can argue that then, you can take scum by surprise, but the clean ability not only completely counters that, but also makes it harder for town, a bit like Miller (which happens to be in the role ideas not to make section of TG. I like Miller as a concept, but I am just saying...)

And its easy to make TPs not confirmable. Just take away the notifications that you were attacked and saved. Their only use is literally to confirm TPs, and having them gone would increase claimspace. However, I'm fine with this being somewhat confirmable, as it is still a weaker Doc.

(Good luck in TG)
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby BasicFourLife » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:38 am

sunbird1002 wrote:Still a weaker doc IMO. Say that Doctor saves 1 person. Now, thats +1 extra town, if the attack succeeded. If that attack is done by mafia, now that person is confirmed not mafia (unless witch or transporter is in game), and the Doctor can confirm themselves, but this is counterclaimable.

If this saves one person, in voting, its a -1 for most of the game. When the retri dies, it only brings back 1 town member, getting that -1 extra town into a 0, which isn't really very helpful. You can argue that then, you can take scum by surprise, but the clean ability not only completely counters that, but also makes it harder for town, a bit like Miller (which happens to be in the role ideas not to make section of TG. I like Miller as a concept, but I am just saying...)

And its easy to make TPs not confirmable. Just take away the notifications that you were attacked and saved. Their only use is literally to confirm TPs, and having them gone would increase claimspace. However, I'm fine with this being somewhat confirmable, as it is still a weaker Doc.

(Good luck in TG)

When Doc saves someone it is 0, as a night of Mafia's kill was wasted. If ret saves someone and rezes them when it dies that's 0 too, because they wasted a single night of Mafia's kill.
If Shapesifter13 tells you that your suggestion will be considered, it never will.
If you’re making a post, thinking you’re gonna impact the game, you won’t.
If you make an another fucking thread about the poor state of the game, you should move on.
If you suggest that Firefighter be added to the game or the fact that Retributionist should die when they resurrect, I will personally murder you instead.

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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby sunbird1002 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:16 am

Only if the mafia/NK kill the retri. And, say that its 5 town vs 4 mafia. Lets assume that both retri and doc do the exact same thing, and heal exactly one person throughout the game, and this is the night when they save their target.
Doctor saves: Next day, its a 5 vs 4 town majority. Town can lynch the rest of the mafia.
Retri 'saves': 4 vs 4 parity. No one is lynched. Retri is killed by mafia the next night making... a 4 vs 4 parity again.

Even if you save 2 people before... still, what difference does it make
Doctor 2nd save: 6 vs 4. Town has 2 days of voting advantage
Retri's second 'save': 4 vs 4 parity. Town cannot vote up mafia. Retri is killed by mafia the next night, resurrecting 2 people. 5 vs 4, just about a town majority. (Best case scenario)
Otherwise, Retri manually dies. 4 vs 4 parity again...
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby Mystoc » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:57 pm

why did u disable dead chat to them? u do realize evils can die and lie and say they are town right if they got saved by ret they are cleaned, there no reason to disable it, it's gonna be incredibly boring to just be dead and not even able to talk ur gonna get some leavers because of this, let dead people talk

also for evils that kill it be obv the were evil if they died and soundly the SK isn't killing anymore but suddenly when alive again from a ret rez the SK resumes killing, another reason generalized killing messages or even the removeal of them is needed

seems like a delayed doc to me who removes people out of play it heals then puts them back into the player once it dies

the time in between them coming back alive could be looked at has them being unkillable but taking away their actions i see it has putting them in stasis basically

the problem is before ret dies its a janitor who cleaned their town members / and evils confusing town on how many evils/town were alive while denying town TI's will

-docs heals are immediate but players can do actions and vote but dont keep the i cant die status
-rets heals are delayed and are more like put player in stasis until and u die, but during that time the player cant be killed but in return, can't do any action either

also dislike this makes meduim even more shit since
1) one less Town support means meduim gonna apear more
2) theres now two roles in mediums inves result that clean person and appear to be janitor, making meduim claims even less trusted

this role is very comparable to doc and i would agree its weaker since in the time you wait for the revives to trigger the cleaning of the soon to be revived people denies town alot of info, doc doesn't do this so its better
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby sunbird1002 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:02 pm

And the revives require you to die, so its -1 town for the ability to even work.

The medium ability is there to stop confirming mediums. I think that when a revived target dies, they cant see dead or medium chat. A boring but perhaps needed fix. Medium should be unique anyway, as 2 mediums are always broken and cant be bypassed.

Medium cannot see their chat, so their impact as dead in the game is 0. Medium also can still tell between janitor and retri, so now, the game will swing around whether medium is in the game, as it confirms the presence of both roles, and can tell which is which.

Well, at least this role helped me realise that protection messages should be removed, and Medium should be unique.
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Re: Retributionist Town Protective

Postby BasicFourLife » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:12 pm

Mystoc wrote:why did u disable dead chat to them? u do realize evils can die and lie and say they are town right if they got saved by ret they are cleaned, there no reason to disable it, it's gonna be incredibly boring to just be dead and not even able to talk ur gonna get some leavers because of this, let dead people talk

also for evils that kill it be obv the were evil if they died and soundly the SK isn't killing anymore but suddenly when alive again from a ret rez the SK resumes killing, another reason generalized killing messages or even the removeal of them is needed

seems like a delayed doc to me who removes people out of play it heals then puts them back into the player once it dies

the time in between them coming back alive could be looked at has them being unkillable but taking away their actions i see it has putting them in stasis basically

the problem is before ret dies its a janitor who cleaned their town members / and evils confusing town on how many evils/town were alive while denying town TI's will

-docs heals are immediate but players can do actions and vote but dont keep the i cant die status
-rets heals are delayed and are more like put player in stasis until and u die, but during that time the player cant be killed but in return, can't do any action either

also dislike this makes meduim even more shit since
1) one less Town support means meduim gonna apear more
2) theres now two roles in mediums inves result that clean person and appear to be janitor, making meduim claims even less trusted

this role is very comparable to doc and i would agree its weaker since in the time you wait for the revives to trigger the cleaning of the soon to be revived people denies town alot of info, doc doesn't do this so its better

That's not the reasoning for disabling dead-chat. The real reason is that they'd get free information that Meds should only get and be able to confirm/deny Mediums.
If Shapesifter13 tells you that your suggestion will be considered, it never will.
If you’re making a post, thinking you’re gonna impact the game, you won’t.
If you make an another fucking thread about the poor state of the game, you should move on.
If you suggest that Firefighter be added to the game or the fact that Retributionist should die when they resurrect, I will personally murder you instead.

FM / TG: 5 - 10 - 8
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