Flake wrote:Roles shouldn't exist solely to counter a certain role, mainly because it would induce a huge balance swing depending on whether the role exists in the game or not. A role shouldn't be much weaker purely due to the fact that another has rolled through RNG.
It doesn't matter if prisoner was rolled into game or not since the fact that he could be rolled is enough to make town weaker in early game.
Now let's look at other neutral evil roles, Exe and Jester. Their purpose is to waste one day for town and kill one of them (in most cases), sometimes also spread spite among town.
Prisoner's purpose is almost exact the same, the difference is that he kills the most important role and waste its night (Jailor's execution is slightly weaker then lynch in early game).
The biggest difference is that town needs to use lynch/exe/shot to get rid of other neutral evil roles and prisoner can kill himself and achieve nothing and in my opinion that is the biggest problem.
Flake wrote:The fact that this is solely a Jailor/VFR/Reveal D1 counter means that there is a lack of any sort of tactical element, which is especially an issue considering all of the other Neutral Evil roles in the game at current are largely based upon tactical elements. There is no real need to discuss or do anything when playing as this role; you can literally just sit back and do nothing until you think you know the Jailor.
Not to mention the fact that this role would be EXTREMELY boring, since it's literally a one-time ability where you either lose or win the game, and most of the time you'll be doing nothing else other than reading occasionally to find hints regarding who the Jailor might be. Considering the fact that a lot of the community finds roles like Medium and Retributionist boring, this definitely would suffer from the same issue, likely on a larger scale.
I have seen many players playing neutral evil roles with no tactic just waiting for some sort of luck. It's up to you. You can try to find out on chat who Jailor is or just wait.
Flake wrote:Also, you don't explain what happens once the Prisoner successfully kills the jailor. Does the Prisoner just die? Or continue to exist as a kingmaker?
Kingmaker, but without defense.
BasicFourLife wrote:There are always 1001 better ways to fix the problem, instead of implementing a hard counter.
When I will see one of thouse 1001 better ways in game then I will agree that there is no reason for Prisoner to be part of the game.