Executioner Siding Mechanic

[Boredfan1]

Currently, executioner is almost impossible role to win as. No matter what you claim, as soon as you say such and such is whatever, you're called an executioner and lynched. Executioner has nothing to use to convince anyone that they are actually right and such and such are evil. You tend to have to get lucky to win as in, the town has to be retarded. However, to give them a chance to hurt town, let them side with a neutral killing, vampires if all any or the mafia. How this would work is that during the idiotic loading screen we sit at looking at our role, the executioner is given a different screen where they can choose their alignment. By doing this, you are giving whichever side they choose a slightly better chance at winning since they have an ally or an extra ally while giving this role an actual chance to win due to having allies. Another way to go is that evil roles can extend a ally invitation during the day or night to someone they see as being executioner. Or, the neutral killings, witch and mafia all know who the executioner is from the beginning so they can ally with them. One of these or something similar please.

[Blackwolfe99]

There's already a decent Exe rework in TG.
This is just unnecessary.

[Boredfan1]

There's already a decent Exe rework in TG.
This is just unnecessary.

Uhuh and that would be............?

[Blackwolfe99]

There's already a decent Exe rework in TG.
This is just unnecessary.

Uhuh and that would be............?

Exe is NB, chooses a target who they think will be lynched, and loses their defense for a couple nights if the target they selected is killed that night.

[lemonader666]

There's already a decent Exe rework in TG.
This is just unnecessary.

Uhuh and that would be............?

Exe is NB, chooses a target who they think will be lynched, and loses their defense for a couple nights if the target they selected is killed that night.

That sounds like a crap rework for Exe. I kind of like the random victim for exe, and having to devise a plan to get them lynched from the get go. Just make Exe NB and leave it as is.

The problem with the random victim Exe is their victim is r a n d o m
the rework solves the problem but IMO it's still not that better

[Boredfan1]

That sounds like a crap rework for Exe. I kind of like the random victim for exe, and having to devise a plan to get them lynched from the get go. Just make Exe NB and leave it as is.

Agreed, it should just be kept the same, but removed from Ranked. I don't think the current Exe makes much sense being Neutral Benign by any definition of the word benign, though; it explicitly harms Town more than evil, and is explicitly harmful in general. It would be better in Neutral Chaos or a new Neutral alignment that isn't in Ranked.

OR they can implement my idea which would be much better.

[Boredfan1]

Except what if the exe doesn't pick in time? Does the timer get extended? Then town knows there is an exe.
Plus, you need to think of this could be programmed into the game. And if multiple executioners spawn in the game. And in modes like all any, who knows who has the strongest team there.
I just don't like that idea.

I really thing the best thing for both Exe and Jester is to make them NC or NB, and leave them as they are.

1: If they don't pick in time, they don't get an alignment unless the other part is active too.

2: It's really not that complicated to program compared to what most games do.

3: Yes, if there are multiple executioners, it will be a bit chaotic BUT that's expected in all any so that's not really a big deal, especially since even with an executioner or two, the mafia or neutral killing doesn't have a huge win chance increase as it depends on a great number of unpredictable factors. In modes like ranked practice and ranked, it actually has a moderate impact on the game but just this fixes the balance a fair bit.

4: Changing the alignment of a role DOESN'T fix anything, you are not giving them a better chance to win, it just keeps everything the same so it's just pointless.

[DemonicKraken]

you guys calling the current exe better then TG exe

RNG is never a good thing. if exe ends up with a sheriff or veteran or something who manages to confirm themselves quickly, exe is kinda screwed. or you could end up with a noobish medium target in a janitor game. RNG is never a good thing.

[Boredfan1]

Except what if the exe doesn't pick in time? Does the timer get extended? Then town knows there is an exe.
Plus, you need to think of this could be programmed into the game. And if multiple executioners spawn in the game. And in modes like all any, who knows who has the strongest team there.
I just don't like that idea.

I really thing the best thing for both Exe and Jester is to make them NC or NB, and leave them as they are.

1: If they don't pick in time, they don't get an alignment unless the other part is active too.

2: It's really not that complicated to program compared to what most games do.

3: Yes, if there are multiple executioners, it will be a bit chaotic BUT that's expected in all any so that's not really a big deal, especially since even with an executioner or two, the mafia or neutral killing doesn't have a huge win chance increase as it depends on a great number of unpredictable factors. In modes like ranked practice and ranked, it actually has a moderate impact on the game but just this fixes the balance a fair bit.

4: Changing the alignment of a role DOESN'T fix anything, you are not giving them a better chance to win, it just keeps everything the same so it's just pointless.

But executioner, IMO is fine as it is. It is a fun role that makes the player think "now how can I get so and so lynched?". As far as I'm concerned, the big problem with exe is that it's NE that can side with town. That's why I think it should go NC or NB, so it can pick whatever side it wants with no problems.

But it's not, ANY time you claim someone is X because your X, you're immediately called an executioner. And like I said before, people tend to lynch executioners. They are suppose to hurt the town but they often have to rely on luck to confirm themselves in order to even get their target lynch or come out as executioner and hope that the town is willing to sacrifice that player just to have the executioner on their side OR that the town is so stupidly gullible they lynch the person immediately which happens sometimes. But most of the time, they don't want the executioner around due to the retarded tribal mentality and it is that mentality that always screws over the survivor and executioner. And again,nothing about changing their alignment changes the game. It doesn't give them a new mechanic like what I'm suggesting which allows them to pick a side, they are still on their own UNLESS they get lucky and typically, they don't. Because of this, they aren't much different than the serial killer or the werewolf or the arsonist who are usually by themselves unless it's all any. Also, to address removing it from ranked, executioner is suppose to be a counter to town evil claims to make them less trustworthy and get rid of a townie, weakening the town. It's a good balance role on paper that needs cleaning up.

you guys calling the current exe better then TG exe

RNG is never a good thing. if exe ends up with a sheriff or veteran or something who manages to confirm themselves quickly, exe is kinda screwed. or you could end up with a noobish medium target in a janitor game. RNG is never a good thing.

RNG is not inherently bad, it is in fact a very strong tool for keeping a fun from feeling too repetitive if used properly. It's not really used too properly in Town of Salem in regards to the Executioner.

[Blackwolfe99]

The reason TG Exe is NB is due to the way they handle NB and NE roles.
NB roles are roles that can win with anyone.
NE roles are roles that have the Witch wincon.
Now, I'm personally a huge fan of the Rule Target version of Exe, because it allows exe to play a far more active role in getting someone lynched and they aren't stuck getting a role that is easily confirmed as a target.

[Boredfan1]

The reason TG Exe is NB is due to the way they handle NB and NE roles.
NB roles are roles that can win with anyone.
NE roles are roles that have the Witch wincon.
Now, I'm personally a huge fan of the Rule Target version of Exe, because it allows exe to play a far more active role in getting someone lynched and they aren't stuck getting a role that is easily confirmed as a target.

Towns already lynch non townies such as the executioner, amney unless they comply and the survivor. Changing them to another neutral role won't change that, again due to the idiotic and greatly outdated tribal mentality the MAJORITY of Humans possess. Also, what is the Rule Target version? I think I've heard of it, but don't remember, I take breaks from the forums because people tend to suck.

[Blackwolfe99]

The reason TG Exe is NB is due to the way they handle NB and NE roles.
NB roles are roles that can win with anyone.
NE roles are roles that have the Witch wincon.
Now, I'm personally a huge fan of the Rule Target version of Exe, because it allows exe to play a far more active role in getting someone lynched and they aren't stuck getting a role that is easily confirmed as a target.

Towns already lynch non townies such as the executioner, amney unless they comply and the survivor. Changing them to another neutral role won't change that, again due to the idiotic and greatly outdated tribal mentality the MAJORITY of Humans possess. Also, what is the Rule Target version? I think I've heard of it, but don't remember, I take breaks from the forums because people tend to suck.

That's the TG version.
It's ability is to "Rule on a person each night."

Anyway, the last two statements have me wanting to say something.
Exe is just a glorified survivor as it stands, I don't see how it's fun.
Granted I have no fun with survivor as well since most games I just d1 claim surv then AFK the rest of the game.
I pretty much do the same thing as exe.
"Hey town, I'm exe. X is my target."

[Boredfan1]

The reason TG Exe is NB is due to the way they handle NB and NE roles.
NB roles are roles that can win with anyone.
NE roles are roles that have the Witch wincon.
Now, I'm personally a huge fan of the Rule Target version of Exe, because it allows exe to play a far more active role in getting someone lynched and they aren't stuck getting a role that is easily confirmed as a target.

Towns already lynch non townies such as the executioner, amney unless they comply and the survivor. Changing them to another neutral role won't change that, again due to the idiotic and greatly outdated tribal mentality the MAJORITY of Humans possess. Also, what is the Rule Target version? I think I've heard of it, but don't remember, I take breaks from the forums because people tend to suck.

That's the TG version.
It's ability is to "Rule on a person each night."

Anyway, the last two statements have me wanting to say something.
Exe is just a glorified survivor as it stands, I don't see how it's fun.
Granted I have no fun with survivor as well since most games I just d1 claim surv then AFK the rest of the game.
I pretty much do the same thing as exe.
"Hey town, I'm exe. X is my target."

You are not exactly explaining anything......I don't understand what you mean by rule on someone each night.

Executioner is NOT a glorified survivor because it is absolutely NOTHING like survivor. As for your strategy for executioner and survivor, those do not work, you will be killed most of the time. Again, the tribal mentality means if you are not in their in group which you wouldn't be, then you are scum and deserve to die, no matter what. This is why survivor and executioners actually have a pretty shitty win rate from my experience. The ONLY ones willing to help you are evil roles because they tend to not have anyone though the mafia often kills survivors anyways for no reason though sometimes, survivor and executioner are just fall guys to protect the mafia's collective asses. But usually, it's the town who does the unjust killing of survivors and executioners. Thus, we need to actually experiment to figure out something that works. As survivor, I've come up with a strategy that seems to have a 50-50 chance. That is, claim day one, say you will inno everyone and you're siding with nobody. Only break it towards the end when you are at risk of being killed and at which case, the only time I had success with it is when I offered my allegiance to anyone who agreed to not lynch me or kill me at night and I kept my word and sided with them to the bitter end and we won. The guy we lynched to win tried to sway me of course but he never said he'd do what I asked them to promise so I didn't feel bad. I'm still testing that strategy out with some scrolls but like I said, 50-50. But that aside, there's not really any such strategy for the executioner. I've tried several strategies, they never work out, I usually get killed either by lynching as executioner or die as jester at night. So the role is pretty broken.

[Blackwolfe99]

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

[Boredfan1]

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on. Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

[BasicFourLife]

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on.

viewforum.php?f=50

Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

I think you misunderstood the role. It chooses one player each night and if they are lynched the next day you win. But if they are not you just pick another player until one player who you chose gets lynched. Also changing the alignment is an extremely big deal, whether you allow Executioner to roll in Ranked or not. Also every Neutral Benign role can ally with Town, so your point is invalid.

[Boredfan1]

Spoiler:

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on.

viewforum.php?f=50

Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

I think you misunderstood the role. It chooses one player each night and if they are lynched the next day you win. But if they are not you just pick another player until one player who you chose gets lynched. Also changing the alignment is an extremely big deal, whether you allow Executioner to roll in Ranked or not. Also every Neutral Benign role can ally with Town, so your point is invalid.

I actually looked for it, it didn't show for me. I don't know why. That aside, there's a lot of problems with this system.

1: There's no need to worry about losing most of the time because if your target dies, just pick another, your bound to get someone eventually! Unless you die. This makes this version WORST than the current one.

2: Dude, THINK for once!!!!! AGAIN, changing the alignment to another neutral alignment does NOTHING for the role! It doesn't change who it can target, it doesn't change the mechanics in any way whatsoever! Neutral evils already can roll in ranked BECAUSE it's important for the balance! And changing it to be able to win with town when it's not even suppose to provided it actually worked that way doesn't make any sense! Neutral evils are suppose to HURT the town! The executioner hurts the town by getting a townie killed, by counter claiming sheriff which makes it tougher for town and misleading the town! It can't hurt the town if it is on the town's side every single time! And that's exactly what you're suggesting! This is a MAJOR debuff for the mafia and neutral killing roles and as such, would MAJORLY increase the win rate of town which destroys the balance and makes the game absolutely pointless to play!

[BasicFourLife]

Spoiler:

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on.

viewforum.php?f=50

Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

I think you misunderstood the role. It chooses one player each night and if they are lynched the next day you win. But if they are not you just pick another player until one player who you chose gets lynched. Also changing the alignment is an extremely big deal, whether you allow Executioner to roll in Ranked or not. Also every Neutral Benign role can ally with Town, so your point is invalid.

I actually looked for it, it didn't show for me. I don't know why. That aside, there's a lot of problems with this system.

1: There's no need to worry about losing most of the time because if your target dies, just pick another, your bound to get someone eventually! Unless you die. This makes this version WORST than the current one.

2: Dude, THINK for once!!!!! AGAIN, changing the alignment to another neutral alignment does NOTHING for the role! It doesn't change who it can target, it doesn't change the mechanics in any way whatsoever! Neutral evils already can roll in ranked BECAUSE it's important for the balance! And changing it to be able to win with town when it's not even suppose to provided it actually worked that way doesn't make any sense! Neutral evils are suppose to HURT the town! The executioner hurts the town by getting a townie killed, by counter claiming sheriff which makes it tougher for town and misleading the town! It can't hurt the town if it is on the town's side every single time! And that's exactly what you're suggesting! This is a MAJOR debuff for the mafia and neutral killing roles and as such, would MAJORLY increase the win rate of town which destroys the balance and makes the game absolutely pointless to play!

You know that Mafia can claim Sheriff too and say that "Target A" is Mafia. Executioner isn't needed for that. Also the reworked Executioner version is Neutral Benign so it CANNOT roll in Ranked.

[Boredfan1]

Spoiler:

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on.

viewforum.php?f=50

Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

I think you misunderstood the role. It chooses one player each night and if they are lynched the next day you win. But if they are not you just pick another player until one player who you chose gets lynched. Also changing the alignment is an extremely big deal, whether you allow Executioner to roll in Ranked or not. Also every Neutral Benign role can ally with Town, so your point is invalid.

I actually looked for it, it didn't show for me. I don't know why. That aside, there's a lot of problems with this system.

1: There's no need to worry about losing most of the time because if your target dies, just pick another, your bound to get someone eventually! Unless you die. This makes this version WORST than the current one.

2: Dude, THINK for once!!!!! AGAIN, changing the alignment to another neutral alignment does NOTHING for the role! It doesn't change who it can target, it doesn't change the mechanics in any way whatsoever! Neutral evils already can roll in ranked BECAUSE it's important for the balance! And changing it to be able to win with town when it's not even suppose to provided it actually worked that way doesn't make any sense! Neutral evils are suppose to HURT the town! The executioner hurts the town by getting a townie killed, by counter claiming sheriff which makes it tougher for town and misleading the town! It can't hurt the town if it is on the town's side every single time! And that's exactly what you're suggesting! This is a MAJOR debuff for the mafia and neutral killing roles and as such, would MAJORLY increase the win rate of town which destroys the balance and makes the game absolutely pointless to play!

You know that Mafia can claim Sheriff too and say that "Target A" is Mafia. Executioner isn't needed for that. Also the reworked Executioner version is Neutral Benign so it CANNOT roll in Ranked.

The ONLY role that can claim sheriff and have any sort of legitimacy is the Consigliere. And again, the rework DOESN'T fix anything, it makes things worst! Stop trying to support something that makes the game worst! We need the executioner to keep the damn balance!

[Boredfan1]

You guys do realize that the alignments in TG are
i. NK, which wins alone and directly kills
ii. NE, which tries to make the town lose and buffs scum/nerfs town in a way that isn't direct killing
iii. NB, for roles that can win with anyone and do not harm anyone but have their own win condition first
and that TG exe fits right into NB, which current EXE doesn't, right?

Neutral Benign won't ever be present in Ranked, regardless of how balanced the alignment can ever be unless we can somehow get 18+ player games (which there is not a chance in hell of happening) but that doesn't mean we should throw balance to the dogs. All roles outside of specific "Chaos" roles like Vampire, Vampire Hunter, and Pirate should be reasonably balanced. But, as I said, Executioner has NO PLACE in Ranked whatsoever. Which is why people need to learn to make reads instead of relying on roles.

The only things that should be up to RNG are pre-game non-rolespecific factors. So basically just lobbies and role distribution. Executioner getting some random target is bad. So is having to pick a target Night 1 (pseudo-RNG).

You guys need to realize that being able to select targets does make the game fun. Coupled with only being able to select a target once, you really have to push for mislynches, but you also have to build your trust because it'll be suspicious if one night you're going "lynch flake" and the next you're going "lynch bees". It has BY FAR more strategy than the current EXE, and that strategy is what makes the game FUN. In addition, night actions that have influence on your win condition also contribute to the fun.

Now, as for the topic at hand, the one merit of current EXE is that their target is guaranteed to be a town role. Meaning their target IS innocent, and more often than not has a way to prove it. This fucks with that, and that's not good.

Rice out.

Also, PAGEGET! :3

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

[BasicFourLife]

You guys do realize that the alignments in TG are
i. NK, which wins alone and directly kills
ii. NE, which tries to make the town lose and buffs scum/nerfs town in a way that isn't direct killing
iii. NB, for roles that can win with anyone and do not harm anyone but have their own win condition first
and that TG exe fits right into NB, which current EXE doesn't, right?

Neutral Benign won't ever be present in Ranked, regardless of how balanced the alignment can ever be unless we can somehow get 18+ player games (which there is not a chance in hell of happening) but that doesn't mean we should throw balance to the dogs. All roles outside of specific "Chaos" roles like Vampire, Vampire Hunter, and Pirate should be reasonably balanced. But, as I said, Executioner has NO PLACE in Ranked whatsoever. Which is why people need to learn to make reads instead of relying on roles.

The only things that should be up to RNG are pre-game non-rolespecific factors. So basically just lobbies and role distribution. Executioner getting some random target is bad. So is having to pick a target Night 1 (pseudo-RNG).

You guys need to realize that being able to select targets does make the game fun. Coupled with only being able to select a target once, you really have to push for mislynches, but you also have to build your trust because it'll be suspicious if one night you're going "lynch flake" and the next you're going "lynch bees". It has BY FAR more strategy than the current EXE, and that strategy is what makes the game FUN. In addition, night actions that have influence on your win condition also contribute to the fun.

Now, as for the topic at hand, the one merit of current EXE is that their target is guaranteed to be a town role. Meaning their target IS innocent, and more often than not has a way to prove it. This fucks with that, and that's not good.

Rice out.

Also, PAGEGET! :3

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

Do you have any way to prove these numbers? No? I didn't think so. With a guaranteed Witch Evil WRs will RISE not fall, because often enough the Executioner works against the Mafia after lynching their target not help them. A guaranteed Witch is +1 ally every game for Scum which will help them a lot.

[Boredfan1]

A reminder to tone down on the excessive quoting (I have put all excessive quoting in spoilers). Please use spoilers for such long chains of quotes in the future.

You can tell us not to excessively quote but you need to define what that is. And I don't understand why we need to put spoilers for long chains, it doesn't make any sense.

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

Do you have any way to prove these numbers? No? I didn't think so. With a guaranteed Witch Evil WRs will RISE not fall, because often enough the Executioner works against the Mafia after lynching their target not help them. A guaranteed Witch is +1 ally every game for Scum which will help them a lot.

ANYONE who isn't an idiot and has a fair amount of experience with the game can prove these.....And no, I'm not calling you an idiot.

[BasicFourLife]

Spoiler:

A reminder to tone down on the excessive quoting (I have put all excessive quoting in spoilers). Please use spoilers for such long chains of quotes in the future.

You can tell us not to excessively quote but you need to define what that is. And I don't understand why we need to put spoilers for long chains, it doesn't make any sense.

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

Do you have any way to prove these numbers? No? I didn't think so. With a guaranteed Witch Evil WRs will RISE not fall, because often enough the Executioner works against the Mafia after lynching their target not help them. A guaranteed Witch is +1 ally every game for Scum which will help them a lot.

ANYONE who isn't an idiot and has a fair amount of experience with the game can prove these.....And no, I'm not calling you an idiot.

Me and many others would disagree with you. Guaranteed Witch helps Scum much more than an Executioner ever would.

[Boredfan1]

You can tell us not to excessively quote but you need to define what that is. And I don't understand why we need to put spoilers for long chains, it doesn't make any sense.

Apologies for not being more clear on this. There is no set definition, but it is fairly obvious when quotes are getting out of hand. As a general rule of thumb, if you are quoting 4 or more things with a large amount of content, you should consider using a spoiler. A few times is fine, but when repeatedly done it can clutter the thread when it isn't necessary.

Noted.