Executioner Siding Mechanic

[Boredfan1]

Spoiler:

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on.

viewforum.php?f=50

Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

I think you misunderstood the role. It chooses one player each night and if they are lynched the next day you win. But if they are not you just pick another player until one player who you chose gets lynched. Also changing the alignment is an extremely big deal, whether you allow Executioner to roll in Ranked or not. Also every Neutral Benign role can ally with Town, so your point is invalid.

I actually looked for it, it didn't show for me. I don't know why. That aside, there's a lot of problems with this system.

1: There's no need to worry about losing most of the time because if your target dies, just pick another, your bound to get someone eventually! Unless you die. This makes this version WORST than the current one.

2: Dude, THINK for once!!!!! AGAIN, changing the alignment to another neutral alignment does NOTHING for the role! It doesn't change who it can target, it doesn't change the mechanics in any way whatsoever! Neutral evils already can roll in ranked BECAUSE it's important for the balance! And changing it to be able to win with town when it's not even suppose to provided it actually worked that way doesn't make any sense! Neutral evils are suppose to HURT the town! The executioner hurts the town by getting a townie killed, by counter claiming sheriff which makes it tougher for town and misleading the town! It can't hurt the town if it is on the town's side every single time! And that's exactly what you're suggesting! This is a MAJOR debuff for the mafia and neutral killing roles and as such, would MAJORLY increase the win rate of town which destroys the balance and makes the game absolutely pointless to play!

[BasicFourLife]

Spoiler:

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on.

viewforum.php?f=50

Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

I think you misunderstood the role. It chooses one player each night and if they are lynched the next day you win. But if they are not you just pick another player until one player who you chose gets lynched. Also changing the alignment is an extremely big deal, whether you allow Executioner to roll in Ranked or not. Also every Neutral Benign role can ally with Town, so your point is invalid.

I actually looked for it, it didn't show for me. I don't know why. That aside, there's a lot of problems with this system.

1: There's no need to worry about losing most of the time because if your target dies, just pick another, your bound to get someone eventually! Unless you die. This makes this version WORST than the current one.

2: Dude, THINK for once!!!!! AGAIN, changing the alignment to another neutral alignment does NOTHING for the role! It doesn't change who it can target, it doesn't change the mechanics in any way whatsoever! Neutral evils already can roll in ranked BECAUSE it's important for the balance! And changing it to be able to win with town when it's not even suppose to provided it actually worked that way doesn't make any sense! Neutral evils are suppose to HURT the town! The executioner hurts the town by getting a townie killed, by counter claiming sheriff which makes it tougher for town and misleading the town! It can't hurt the town if it is on the town's side every single time! And that's exactly what you're suggesting! This is a MAJOR debuff for the mafia and neutral killing roles and as such, would MAJORLY increase the win rate of town which destroys the balance and makes the game absolutely pointless to play!

You know that Mafia can claim Sheriff too and say that "Target A" is Mafia. Executioner isn't needed for that. Also the reworked Executioner version is Neutral Benign so it CANNOT roll in Ranked.

[Boredfan1]

Spoiler:

Sorry for not explaining that, but I shouldn't have to since the TG subforum is literally stickied to the top of this one.
Anyway, Ruling just removes the RNG from your exe target. Ruling means exe picks the person that they think/want to lynch.

I'm with you on most of that.
Personally most of my survivor deaths come from even worse off parties. I usually die to wws as surv. No joke. What's worse is, despite that, surv still has my third highest wincount at 60 wins.
Most of my exe deaths can be attributed to Town lynching me after my target is lynched or killed.
So personal experience is kind of a 50-50.
Regardless, exe needs to be moved to NB because of its win with all condition.

Dude, I looked for anything regarding what is being worked on, there's no forum for the stuff being worked on.

viewforum.php?f=50

Also, choosing someone as their target doesn't actually help BECAUSE you don't actually know who is what when you need to select a target. You might as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's essentially the same and with that, you can accidentally choose a jailor or vet or an evil role which wouldn't actually be good for game balance but if you choose vet or jailor, you are absolutely screwed. This isn't better! Also, changing the official faction of the role DOESN'T change anything! Just changing that doesn't mean it can align with town because you are not changing the mechanics of the role or the game in general! Neutral evil, neutral chaos, neutral benign are just labels, they don't actually affect the game like vampire, town and mafia does.

I think you misunderstood the role. It chooses one player each night and if they are lynched the next day you win. But if they are not you just pick another player until one player who you chose gets lynched. Also changing the alignment is an extremely big deal, whether you allow Executioner to roll in Ranked or not. Also every Neutral Benign role can ally with Town, so your point is invalid.

I actually looked for it, it didn't show for me. I don't know why. That aside, there's a lot of problems with this system.

1: There's no need to worry about losing most of the time because if your target dies, just pick another, your bound to get someone eventually! Unless you die. This makes this version WORST than the current one.

2: Dude, THINK for once!!!!! AGAIN, changing the alignment to another neutral alignment does NOTHING for the role! It doesn't change who it can target, it doesn't change the mechanics in any way whatsoever! Neutral evils already can roll in ranked BECAUSE it's important for the balance! And changing it to be able to win with town when it's not even suppose to provided it actually worked that way doesn't make any sense! Neutral evils are suppose to HURT the town! The executioner hurts the town by getting a townie killed, by counter claiming sheriff which makes it tougher for town and misleading the town! It can't hurt the town if it is on the town's side every single time! And that's exactly what you're suggesting! This is a MAJOR debuff for the mafia and neutral killing roles and as such, would MAJORLY increase the win rate of town which destroys the balance and makes the game absolutely pointless to play!

You know that Mafia can claim Sheriff too and say that "Target A" is Mafia. Executioner isn't needed for that. Also the reworked Executioner version is Neutral Benign so it CANNOT roll in Ranked.

The ONLY role that can claim sheriff and have any sort of legitimacy is the Consigliere. And again, the rework DOESN'T fix anything, it makes things worst! Stop trying to support something that makes the game worst! We need the executioner to keep the damn balance!

[Boredfan1]

You guys do realize that the alignments in TG are
i. NK, which wins alone and directly kills
ii. NE, which tries to make the town lose and buffs scum/nerfs town in a way that isn't direct killing
iii. NB, for roles that can win with anyone and do not harm anyone but have their own win condition first
and that TG exe fits right into NB, which current EXE doesn't, right?

Neutral Benign won't ever be present in Ranked, regardless of how balanced the alignment can ever be unless we can somehow get 18+ player games (which there is not a chance in hell of happening) but that doesn't mean we should throw balance to the dogs. All roles outside of specific "Chaos" roles like Vampire, Vampire Hunter, and Pirate should be reasonably balanced. But, as I said, Executioner has NO PLACE in Ranked whatsoever. Which is why people need to learn to make reads instead of relying on roles.

The only things that should be up to RNG are pre-game non-rolespecific factors. So basically just lobbies and role distribution. Executioner getting some random target is bad. So is having to pick a target Night 1 (pseudo-RNG).

You guys need to realize that being able to select targets does make the game fun. Coupled with only being able to select a target once, you really have to push for mislynches, but you also have to build your trust because it'll be suspicious if one night you're going "lynch flake" and the next you're going "lynch bees". It has BY FAR more strategy than the current EXE, and that strategy is what makes the game FUN. In addition, night actions that have influence on your win condition also contribute to the fun.

Now, as for the topic at hand, the one merit of current EXE is that their target is guaranteed to be a town role. Meaning their target IS innocent, and more often than not has a way to prove it. This fucks with that, and that's not good.

Rice out.

Also, PAGEGET! :3

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

[BasicFourLife]

You guys do realize that the alignments in TG are
i. NK, which wins alone and directly kills
ii. NE, which tries to make the town lose and buffs scum/nerfs town in a way that isn't direct killing
iii. NB, for roles that can win with anyone and do not harm anyone but have their own win condition first
and that TG exe fits right into NB, which current EXE doesn't, right?

Neutral Benign won't ever be present in Ranked, regardless of how balanced the alignment can ever be unless we can somehow get 18+ player games (which there is not a chance in hell of happening) but that doesn't mean we should throw balance to the dogs. All roles outside of specific "Chaos" roles like Vampire, Vampire Hunter, and Pirate should be reasonably balanced. But, as I said, Executioner has NO PLACE in Ranked whatsoever. Which is why people need to learn to make reads instead of relying on roles.

The only things that should be up to RNG are pre-game non-rolespecific factors. So basically just lobbies and role distribution. Executioner getting some random target is bad. So is having to pick a target Night 1 (pseudo-RNG).

You guys need to realize that being able to select targets does make the game fun. Coupled with only being able to select a target once, you really have to push for mislynches, but you also have to build your trust because it'll be suspicious if one night you're going "lynch flake" and the next you're going "lynch bees". It has BY FAR more strategy than the current EXE, and that strategy is what makes the game FUN. In addition, night actions that have influence on your win condition also contribute to the fun.

Now, as for the topic at hand, the one merit of current EXE is that their target is guaranteed to be a town role. Meaning their target IS innocent, and more often than not has a way to prove it. This fucks with that, and that's not good.

Rice out.

Also, PAGEGET! :3

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

Do you have any way to prove these numbers? No? I didn't think so. With a guaranteed Witch Evil WRs will RISE not fall, because often enough the Executioner works against the Mafia after lynching their target not help them. A guaranteed Witch is +1 ally every game for Scum which will help them a lot.

[Boredfan1]

A reminder to tone down on the excessive quoting (I have put all excessive quoting in spoilers). Please use spoilers for such long chains of quotes in the future.

You can tell us not to excessively quote but you need to define what that is. And I don't understand why we need to put spoilers for long chains, it doesn't make any sense.

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

Do you have any way to prove these numbers? No? I didn't think so. With a guaranteed Witch Evil WRs will RISE not fall, because often enough the Executioner works against the Mafia after lynching their target not help them. A guaranteed Witch is +1 ally every game for Scum which will help them a lot.

ANYONE who isn't an idiot and has a fair amount of experience with the game can prove these.....And no, I'm not calling you an idiot.

[BasicFourLife]

Spoiler:

A reminder to tone down on the excessive quoting (I have put all excessive quoting in spoilers). Please use spoilers for such long chains of quotes in the future.

You can tell us not to excessively quote but you need to define what that is. And I don't understand why we need to put spoilers for long chains, it doesn't make any sense.

Dude, why do you keep ignoring what I say? Or do you simple not understand?

Executioner is NOT suppose to be a neutral benign role, it's suppose to hurt the town, NOT help it. Again, it doesn't actually change any mechanics to change the alignment, your doing thirty seconds of recoding at most. AND the testing grounds executioner is WORST for the game than the current version as I keep explaining. How is that so complicated that you still don't understand after the multiple times I said this on this thread? Here, I'll simplify it to the lowest point.

Current Executioner = +10% chance for scum to win.

TG Executioner = +10% chance for town to win and -10% chance for scum to win.

It's really that simple.

You need to realize that with the TG version, the role is not actually going to be fun to play, it becomes a near sure thing to win with WHICH means no actual strategy is needed. Just wait until someone is close to getting lynched, choose them then you win the next day or two. That is what the executioner meta would become. That degrades the quality of the overall game which only HURTS the longevity of said game.

Finally, do not make assumptions about what will and won't be in the game in the future, you cannot see the future therefore, you are not qualified to say what will and won't be in the game. IN FACT, the game was a lot more fun and balanced when we had the survivor in ranked and ranked practice due to the greater claim space for scum AND with amnesiac, if they chose evil roles, that boosts that role or alignment's chances by a bit which makes it good for balance. Removing these roles have only made those modes more generic, boring and unbalanced than they ever have been.

Do you have any way to prove these numbers? No? I didn't think so. With a guaranteed Witch Evil WRs will RISE not fall, because often enough the Executioner works against the Mafia after lynching their target not help them. A guaranteed Witch is +1 ally every game for Scum which will help them a lot.

ANYONE who isn't an idiot and has a fair amount of experience with the game can prove these.....And no, I'm not calling you an idiot.

Me and many others would disagree with you. Guaranteed Witch helps Scum much more than an Executioner ever would.

[Boredfan1]

You can tell us not to excessively quote but you need to define what that is. And I don't understand why we need to put spoilers for long chains, it doesn't make any sense.

Apologies for not being more clear on this. There is no set definition, but it is fairly obvious when quotes are getting out of hand. As a general rule of thumb, if you are quoting 4 or more things with a large amount of content, you should consider using a spoiler. A few times is fine, but when repeatedly done it can clutter the thread when it isn't necessary.

Noted.