Double - Neutral Benign

[dyaomaster]

Alright.

Still don't like that now their win relies on another player being competent enough to succeed, but that seems reasonable. I'd assume the same applies to other NB/NE roles?

[Schultz128]

Executioner/Survivor would still win so long as the Double completes the goal.

You want my take on it? If you're a Double and you targeted Executioner, they should have lynched their target earlier.

"Dude just lynch your target Day 1 LOL"

Please desist.

[Shilster]

Who says Double can shoot N1? (afaik that's banned in FM).

Double can shoot n1 lmao

Likely wouldn't shoot early on anyways because they don't benefit the team they join that early and thus would want to wait to make sure they make the right choice.

I don't see you complaining about Amne for the same reason

[Villagerlover]

This role is one of those roles that I think is okay on paper but would probably not be good in-game.

It's not like Neutral Benign is gonna spawn in ranked anyway, so I don't see the point of this whole "trying to make it more or less (faction) sided". Considering it won't appear in ranked, you might as well not implement the role when we already have an Amnesiac. The last thing people want to experience is being killed by a Double because the role basically just kicks them out of the game while the Double takes over their position.
My other consideration is how it has the ability to kill someone at all. I don't believe the Neutral Benign category should ever have a natural ability to kill someone at all cause Survivors and Amnesiacs set the standards for me to think that Benigns are trying to be.....well. Benign. Double isn't really benign at all in that sense.

I just think this role is entirely unnecessary as long as Amnesiac gets their "remembrance" announcement removed.

[Mystoc]

this role is exrteamly game throwy kill the comptent jailor with an unstopable attack and just start exing town, oh is the mayor doing a job better kill him and do a bad job

your also assuming the person that takes the town members place is going to be a better player then the orignal this is flat out wrong at least half the time they will be worse

also the whole flavor of NB killing is just wrong, NB are ment to be harmless its in the very name BENIGN

the role itself is better then anmeasic but is evil sided and hurts town alot when it joins town where as evils there are no negatives to joining evils

ive already explained the extra kill mehanic of this role vrs anme but no one seems to get it so im leaving that alone

would this role a good replacement to anemasic YES does this role still have flaws but less then ame does YES

overall the role is good but still has flaws

[BasicFourLife]

This role is one of those roles that I think is okay on paper but would probably not be good in-game.

It's not like Neutral Benign is gonna spawn in ranked anyway, so I don't see the point of this whole "trying to make it more or less (faction) sided". Considering it won't appear in ranked, you might as well not implement the role when we already have an Amnesiac. The last thing people want to experience is being killed by a Double because the role basically just kicks them out of the game while the Double takes over their position.
My other consideration is how it has the ability to kill someone at all. I don't believe the Neutral Benign category should ever have a natural ability to kill someone at all cause Survivors and Amnesiacs set the standards for me to think that Benigns are trying to be.....well. Benign. Double isn't really benign at all in that sense.

I just think this role is entirely unnecessary as long as Amnesiac gets their "remembrance" announcement removed.

The last thing I want to experience is Amnesiac remembering Town when I’m doing so well as Scum.

[lemonader666]

this role is exrteamly game throwy kill the comptent jailor with an unstopable attack and just start exing town, oh is the mayor doing a job better kill him and do a bad job

your also assuming the person that takes the town members place is going to be a better player then the orignal this is flat out wrong at least half the time they will be worse

also the whole flavor of NB killing is just wrong, NB are ment to be harmless its in the very name BENIGN

the role itself is better then anmeasic but is evil sided and hurts town alot when it joins town where as evils there are no negatives to joining evils

ive already explained the extra kill mehanic of this role vrs anme but no one seems to get it so im leaving that alone

would this role a good replacement to anemasic YES does this role still have flaws but less then ame does YES

overall the role is good but still has flaws

Go to bed mystoc

[BasicFourLife]

this role is exrteamly game throwy kill the comptent jailor with an unstopable attack and just start exing town, oh is the mayor doing a job better kill him and do a bad job

your also assuming the person that takes the town members place is going to be a better player then the orignal this is flat out wrong at least half the time they will be worse

also the whole flavor of NB killing is just wrong, NB are ment to be harmless its in the very name BENIGN

the role itself is better then anmeasic but is evil sided and hurts town alot when it joins town where as evils there are no negatives to joining evils

ive already explained the extra kill mehanic of this role vrs anme but no one seems to get it so im leaving that alone

would this role a good replacement to anemasic YES does this role still have flaws but less then ame does YES

overall the role is good but still has flaws

Go to bed mystoc

^^^
This

This role doesnt favor Scum. If usually favors the side it inherits and Town makes up a majority so therefore it slightly favors Town.

[Mystoc]

man it does favor scum it cleans roles so it can join evils better so no one knows what the double joined

cleaning a town role denies them info from the will esp with roles like inves transporter jailor whose wills give town alot info
cleaning an evil roles will denies evils nothing has an evils will is a fake one

the is 100% evil favored, yes it can join town but it joins evils alot better esp mafia,
oh is sam the mafiso about to hanged the next day? shoot him and join mafia and now town no longer has suspect and u got join mafia and mafia kept their numbers (how is that not evil favored)

neither of you adressed the gamethrowing aspect of this role and the fact the people it replaces wont always be playing poorly infact the person replacing them could end up playing worse

if your gonna disgree with my feedback give me solid reasons why im not gonna go to bed at 11:00 AM (timezones are weird like that)

[BasicFourLife]

man it does favor scum it cleans roles so it can join evils better so no one knows what the double joined

cleaning a town role denies them info from the will esp with roles like inves transporter jailor whose wills give town alot info
cleaning an evil roles will denies evils nothing has an evils will is a fake one

the is 100% evil favored, yes it can join town but it joins evils alot better esp mafia,
oh is sam the mafiso about to hanged the next day? shoot him and join mafia and now town no longer has suspect and u got join mafia and mafia kept their numbers (how is that not evil favored)

neither of you adressed the gamethrowing aspect of this role and the fact the people it replaces wont always be playing poorly infact the person replacing them could end up playing worse

if your gonna disgree with my feedback give me solid reasons why im not gonna go to bed at 11:00 AM (timezones are weird like that)

But Town doesn’t have an opposing Double anymore.

[Mystoc]

man it does favor scum it cleans roles so it can join evils better so no one knows what the double joined

cleaning a town role denies them info from the will esp with roles like inves transporter jailor whose wills give town alot info
cleaning an evil roles will denies evils nothing has an evils will is a fake one

the is 100% evil favored, yes it can join town but it joins evils alot better esp mafia,
oh is sam the mafiso about to hanged the next day? shoot him and join mafia and now town no longer has suspect and u got join mafia and mafia kept their numbers (how is that not evil favored)

neither of you adressed the gamethrowing aspect of this role and the fact the people it replaces wont always be playing poorly infact the person replacing them could end up playing worse

if your gonna disgree with my feedback give me solid reasons why im not gonna go to bed at 11:00 AM (timezones are weird like that)

But Town doesn’t have an opposing Double anymore.

the double was neutral before this and hadnt picked a side, sure maybe he was favoring a side but there was still the chance he could join either side

its about opurtinutiy u wait to see what side is winning or if a good new town role is revealed and you want to take their spot, same goes with joining evils if you can take the spot of an evil about to be hanged it makes town loose alot moementuem

the double could vote aginst towns intrest the whole game realize at before game ends town will win kill a town member the night before the game ends and win themeselves, what double votes before he joins a side doesnt matter at all, since the side he can join can is always open to his choice,

this role is more felixable anmeasic bassicly since it isnt reliant on someone dying it can cause the death at price of possibly joining an unkown side, but if it waits long enough it can be very certian what side it will join

[ManateeDude]

it cleans wills, thats a necessity otherwise its more broken than amne. ffs mystoc you're failing to understand the fact that this doesnt hurt the faction all the time, it can save a jailor after all TPs are dead and stil, remain anonymous. This benefits its faction in most ways while still maintaining higher balance than amne

[Mystoc]

it cleans wills, thats a necessity otherwise its more broken than amne. ffs mystoc you're failing to understand the fact that this doesnt hurt the faction all the time, it can save a jailor after all TPs are dead and stil, remain anonymous. This benefits its faction in most ways while still maintaining higher balance than amne

stop comparing two wrongs and equiting it to being ok, sure anme is a falwed role but creating another flawed role then say its ok cause the other role is worse is bad logic

your assuming though the evils will attack the jailor that night you dont know for sure for all you know they wont because TP is on them, you also not realizing now that jailor isnt revealed TP doesnt know your jailor and who to protect so mafia could just get lucky and randomly kill you being a revealed jailor does have benefits


hanging is different theres a clear indcation in day chat who towns suspects and wants to hang the next day, thus its an evil sided role

[Villagerlover]

This role is one of those roles that I think is okay on paper but would probably not be good in-game.

It's not like Neutral Benign is gonna spawn in ranked anyway, so I don't see the point of this whole "trying to make it more or less (faction) sided". Considering it won't appear in ranked, you might as well not implement the role when we already have an Amnesiac. The last thing people want to experience is being killed by a Double because the role basically just kicks them out of the game while the Double takes over their position.
My other consideration is how it has the ability to kill someone at all. I don't believe the Neutral Benign category should ever have a natural ability to kill someone at all cause Survivors and Amnesiacs set the standards for me to think that Benigns are trying to be.....well. Benign. Double isn't really benign at all in that sense.

I just think this role is entirely unnecessary as long as Amnesiac gets their "remembrance" announcement removed.

The last thing I want to experience is Amnesiac remembering Town when I’m doing so well as Scum.

That's why you take away the rememberance announcements, so that the Amnesiacs aren't confirmed, and therefore, able to be accused.

[ManateeDude]

Even without remembrance notifs, this role is ultimately better because it doesnt give a +1 to their faction. And using last wills as an arguement is dumb because theyre inbalanced in themselves

[Villagerlover]

Even without remembrance notifs, this role is ultimately better because it doesnt give a +1 to their faction. And using last wills as an arguement is dumb because theyre inbalanced in themselves

No, it doesn't. The non- +1 factor is 1 benefit. I have already listed several reasons I don't agree with Double because I believe the amount of negatives that the Double brings outweighs the positives.
In my opinion, it's quite clear to me that this role only has 1 positive (being balanced) in comparison to the vast number of new problems that would come out of this role.
-No one wants to know they were killed and replaced. It takes away the fun of being in the game at all, and will give us more leavers.
-No one wants to be killed by, of all things, a Neutral Benign role, which is quite unfitting for its alignment.
-It won't help with other neutral roles that have unmet goals like unaccomplished Jesters Exes Survivors Amnesiacs and Witches
-It won't even appear in the setting it was clearly created for.
-Above all else, we already have Amnesiac which just needs some tweaking.


I don't know what you're talking about, I never used Last Wills as an argument for anything at all. Not sure where that came from at all...