Overseer: Town Support (replacing Spy)

[ZedKiller13]

Name: Overseer

Alignment: Town Support

Summary: You are a talented recorder who records everything done to a person.

Attack: None

Defense: None

Unique Role: No

Coven Exclusive? No

Priority: 5

Abilities: Select a person to watch over each night. You will receive all actions targeted against that person.

Attributes: You will see all actions on your target whether they be Astral or not. Your visit to your target is Astral.

Mechanics: All actions, such as investigating, protecting, attacking, interrogating, roleblocking, hexing, dousing, EVERYTHING, will be seen. You only receive select messages depending on the roles who visit. You will only receive a message for someone who is doused, bitten, or hexed if it occurs on the exact same night.

Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious.

Investigator: Your target could be a Lookout, Forger, Overseer, or Witch/Coven Leader.

Consigliere: Your target carefully tracks everything done to their target. They must be an Overseer.

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Wins with: Normal Town win conditions.

Must kill: Normal Town conditions.

Messages received:

Your target was checked for a clue to their possible role.

(Sheriff, Investigator, Consigliere, Vampire Hunter, Potion Master reveal)

Your target was carefully protected.

(Lookout, Bodyguard, Crusader, Doctor, Trapper (placing a trap) Potion Master (healing) Guardian Angel (protecting/purging) 

Your target was unable to do their nightly action, somone occupied them.

(Escort/Consort)

Your target was attacked by someone!

(every single role that can attack, including VH staking a Vampire, Vamps attacking Mafia/Coven ect., AND including rampage stuff. Jailor is excluded. This also appears if the target is framed.)

Your target was swapped with someone else.

(Transported, you will see actions against the target who was switched)

Your target was doused in gasoline!/Your target cleaned themselves of gasoline!

(Arsonist douse/arsonist clean)

Your target decided to protect themselves from anything.

(BG/Doc/Survivor self vesting/healing) (ONLY APPEARS IF THE TARGET WAS NOT ATTACKED THE SAME NIGHT)

Your target was attacked but their defense was too strong!

(anyone attacked with immunity or when using a vest)

Your target was bitten and turned into a Vampire!

(Vampire successful conversion)

Your target was forced to withstand a dreadful curse. They must be hexed!

(Hex Masters hex)

Your target was turned to stone!

(Medusas stone gaze)

Your target was forcefully controlled into someone else!

(Witch/CL)

Your target could not withstand their own guilt. They killed themselves!

(Jester/Vigi suicide)

Your target engaged in a melee fight!

(Pirate plundering or the pirate themselves)

Your target was attacked but was nursed back to life!

(Doctor/Potion Master)

Your target was attacked but someone protected them against the attacker!

(Crusader/Bodyguard)

A trap was placed at your target's house. You foolishly stepped in it!/A trap saved your target from an attacker!

(Trapper setting a trap and saving someone)

Your target was made unrecognizable by someone!

(Janitor clean)

Someone is now appearing as your target!

(Disguiser disguising as your target)


 I didn't see much use of the bug ability on the Spy and thought that a role designed to replace it would fit much better, since Spy usually gets all they can see from visits and can really only confirm which roles were visited and can confirm an Arsonist cleaning themselves. 

[MarvelsTheFixer]

I think this is fun. So much so that it does not even need to replace the spy's ability. Just use both of them.

[dyaomaster]

As long as they aren't revealed to the Town... oh wait then it's just plain old Spy.

The problem with revealing to the Town is confirmablity. As soon as the Overseer wants to claim, he can just say "I'm the Overseer who watched John last night" and suddenly everybody knows for sure he's a Townie; sort of like how Jailor can just go "I'm Jailor who jailed Mary last night" or Escort in a Consort-free game can say "I'm Escort who RB'd Giles last night". It makes the Overseer very confirmable, which is what the devs were trying to avoid when they took out whisper reading.

[ZedKiller13]

Remember, the visits themselves are Astral and each result will only show once, so anyone can claim the exact same thing and it can't be disproved, either. This could also replace the Spy.

It makes it confirmable but uncomfirmable as nobody can prove or disprove them, especially if a Forger claims it or Witch/CL.

[dyaomaster]

If two people claim the same Overseer, one is lying and will die. If the one who does is actually the Overseer, the other one will die. Usually, a 1 for 1 trade is harmful to evils because they have less people than Town, so nobody will try to fake claim Overseer. Meaning it's basically confirmable.

[ZedKiller13]

Alright then, would it be better to not reveal the results to the Town, but just receive results themselves? I can change it to that instead.

I might remove the revealing thing but it seems iffy and I want to make it unique.

[DragonClaw66]

As I said on the Wikia, I like this role very much (and I still think it should replace the Spy entirely). I could create achievements if you'd like.

[ZedKiller13]

I don't think achievements are needed, to me it seems more like a BMG thing.

Also, a Spy achievement is broken. "How many times you heard a private whisper" can't be added to since they were removed.

[MarvelsTheFixer]

There is absolutely no reason for it to replace the spy.

[DragonClaw66]

There is absolutely no reason for it to replace the spy.

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

[fwogcarf]

There is a thing called spoilers by the way

[MarvelsTheFixer]

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

[fwogcarf]

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

I could say the same thing about you

Anyway I disagree with Dragonclaw on that Spy is OP. Spy i feel is weaker than it was when it could hear whispers. Overseer is a good replacement

[DragonClaw66]

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

I could say the same thing about you

Anyway I disagree with Dragonclaw on that Spy is OP. Spy i feel is weaker than it was when it could hear whispers. Overseer is a good replacement.

Well, Fwogcarf, you're right; Spy was much more powerful when it had the ability to read whispers and Mafia chat. But the rework still left the Spy extremely powerful. I am going to list the major effects the Spy has on evil roles/factions (Neutral Benigns do not count):

- Mafia: The visited player cannot be Mafia unless a Transporter or Coven Leader interfered, which is incredibly rare.
- Coven: The visited player cannot be Coven unless a Transporter or Coven Leader interfered, which is incredibly rare.
- Neutral Killings: Can see that they have Basic defense upon being attacked.

- Executioner: Can see that it is Basic/Invincible defense upon being attacked.
- Witch: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Plaguebearer/Pestilence: Can see that they have Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Disguiser: Can pinpoint the exact role of a player based on what they appear to be upon death.
- Forger: Completely disregards the fake will.
- Framer: Nullifies the framing effect.
- Hypnotist: Can see that the player was actually hypnotized and not whatever they think happened to them.
- Consort: Denies an Escort claim.
- Godfather: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Coven Leader: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Hex Master: Negates the framing effect of the hex.

[fwogcarf]

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

I could say the same thing about you

Anyway I disagree with Dragonclaw on that Spy is OP. Spy i feel is weaker than it was when it could hear whispers. Overseer is a good replacement.

Well, Fwogcarf, you're right; Spy was much more powerful when it had the ability to read whispers and Mafia chat. But the rework still left the Spy extremely powerful. I am going to list the major effects the Spy has on evil roles/factions (Neutral Benigns do not count):

- Mafia: The visited player cannot be Mafia unless a Transporter or Coven Leader interfered, which is incredibly rare.
- Coven: The visited player cannot be Coven unless a Transporter or Coven Leader interfered, which is incredibly rare.
- Neutral Killings: Can see that they have Basic defense upon being attacked.

- Executioner: Can see that it is Basic/Invincible defense upon being attacked.
- Witch: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Plaguebearer/Pestilence: Can see that they have Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Disguiser: Can pinpoint the exact role of a player based on what they appear to be upon death.
- Forger: Completely disregards the fake will.
- Framer: Nullifies the framing effect.
- Hypnotist: Can see that the player was actually hypnotized and not whatever they think happened to them.
- Consort: Denies an Escort claim.
- Godfather: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Coven Leader: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Hex Master: Negates the framing effect of the hex.

Ok, but keep in mind there are only so many of those roles in one game. All of them aren't usually in one game, so I'm basing off of that. However if you prove me wrong there, Spy would be pretty OP

[DragonClaw66]

Spoiler:

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

Spy is overpowered. This is balanced.

What kind of sick joke is this?

I could say the same thing about you

Anyway I disagree with Dragonclaw on that Spy is OP. Spy i feel is weaker than it was when it could hear whispers. Overseer is a good replacement.

Well, Fwogcarf, you're right; Spy was much more powerful when it had the ability to read whispers and Mafia chat. But the rework still left the Spy extremely powerful. I am going to list the major effects the Spy has on evil roles/factions (Neutral Benigns do not count):

- Mafia: The visited player cannot be Mafia unless a Transporter or Coven Leader interfered, which is incredibly rare.
- Coven: The visited player cannot be Coven unless a Transporter or Coven Leader interfered, which is incredibly rare.
- Neutral Killings: Can see that they have Basic defense upon being attacked.

- Executioner: Can see that it is Basic/Invincible defense upon being attacked.
- Witch: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Plaguebearer/Pestilence: Can see that they have Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Disguiser: Can pinpoint the exact role of a player based on what they appear to be upon death.
- Forger: Completely disregards the fake will.
- Framer: Nullifies the framing effect.
- Hypnotist: Can see that the player was actually hypnotized and not whatever they think happened to them.
- Consort: Denies an Escort claim.
- Godfather: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Coven Leader: Can see that it has Basic defense upon being attacked.
- Hex Master: Negates the framing effect of the hex.

Ok, but keep in mind there are only so many of those roles in one game. All of them aren't usually in one game, so I'm basing off of that. However if you prove me wrong there, Spy would be pretty OP

In the Ranked role list, the Mafia and Neutral Killings will always be there. The Spy guarantees a counter to the Neutral Killings and it guarantees that all visited players won't be Mafia (unless a Transporter or Witch interferes). And don't forget that 4/7 of the Mafia roles on the list can appear in the game, meaning that the chance of a Spy countering a Random Mafia is great as well.

[ZedKiller13]

Now that I think of it more, this role would give a lot more slack on evil roles but at the same time still hinder them. It can't prove roles directly but can see which possible roles use their action on a specific target. It can also prove which roles are immune, like the original spy, but again, can't prove what type of immunity did it.

For instance, the message about self vesting/healing ONLY appears if they WERE NOT ATTACKED THAT NIGHT. I forgot to add one, but the message for when someone is attacked but they have immunity is "Your target was attacked but their defense was too strong!"

The other good unique part of this role is that it is the only Town role with an Astral visit and the only role which can combat the Hex Master in seeing who exactly was hexed that same night.

[MarvelsTheFixer]

I could say the same thing about you

Anyway I disagree with Dragonclaw on that Spy is OP. Spy i feel is weaker than it was when it could hear whispers. Overseer is a good replacement

No, actually you couldn't.

Overseer is a good compliment, not replacement. Hearing whispers was hardly ever something that had any great impact on the game, unless somebody really screwed up, it has about the same level of power, which is decent.

[ZedKiller13]

Still new to this but I want to add a poll on the page with just three choices if anyone can help me out:

Choice #1: Replace the Spy with this role?
Choice #2: Add this role into the game along with the Spy?
Choice #3: Don't add this role into the game.

[dyaomaster]

Go to Edit. Below the editing box should be a tab for poll creation. Click on the tab; instructions will be given.

Also, now that you've removed the "announce it" part, I think this role would be better than current Spy. Spy right now is able to confirm many roles that have unique messages. This reduces it to a pseudo-Lookout, which is much less confirmable.

[ZedKiller13]

Thanks, added the poll in.

That's what I like about this role, it is much less confirmable but at the same time easily confirmable and gives evils a good claim to use, especially the Forger as they have two Town choices, a TI or TS choice. You can claim which person had what done to them, and it's even better as you can't disprove as the visits are ASTRAL. Let's say an Investigator reveals their will while a Forger goes for an Overseer claim. THey just apply one "checked for their role" into their will on the Investigators target. Can't disprove it either since it actually would've happened. This role easily creates more thought and strategy and thinking on the Town's side while opening up better opportunities for evils.

This also can help clear up some easy Town games, like a Mayor with a Retributionist in the same game, or two Escorts.

Changed name, hopefully no confusion.

[BasicFourLife]

This role confirms Town roles too easily.

- TI should be a role which a player to learn something about THEM not what happens against them or the effects.
- Your role doesn't get any information about them, just the fact that if they are lying about some effect or not which hinders evils a lot.

1. You need to move this role to TS, because this is a TI role not a TS.
2. You need to heavily nerf not to make it inclaimable by Evils, easily confirming every Town role and countering evils.

[dyaomaster]

This role confirms Town roles too easily.

- TI should be a role which a player to learn something about THEM not what happens against them or the effects.
- Your role doesn't get any information about them, just the fact that if they are lying about some effect or not which hinders evils a lot.

1. You need to move this role to TS, because this is a TI role not a TS.
2. You need to heavily nerf not to make it inclaimable by Evils, easily confirming every Town role and countering evils.

Lookout is balanced.

[BasicFourLife]

This role confirms Town roles too easily.

- TI should be a role which a player to learn something about THEM not what happens against them or the effects.
- Your role doesn't get any information about them, just the fact that if they are lying about some effect or not which hinders evils a lot.

1. You need to move this role to TS, because this is a TI role not a TS.
2. You need to heavily nerf not to make it inclaimable by Evils, easily confirming every Town role and countering evils.

Lookout is balanced.

How does this make any sense with what he said???

[ZedKiller13]

This role confirms Town roles too easily.

- TI should be a role which a player to learn something about THEM not what happens against them or the effects.
But it's Town Support?
- Your role doesn't get any information about them, just the fact that if they are lying about some effect or not which hinders evils a lot.
Uhhh but it's Town Support, and to minimize it....you can't confirm anyone really other than select TI roles but at the same time there is no way to confirm YOU either.
1. You need to move this role to TS, because this is a TI role not a TS.
...what?
2. You need to heavily nerf not to make it inclaimable by Evils, easily confirming every Town role and countering evils.

But it's extremely easy for evils to claim and still have ways to be falsely "confirmed" due to the layout of the role.

I'm literally confused on all of these responses.