Godmother (Mafia Head)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby SERVAT » Sun May 13, 2018 8:25 am

This role works better with the Mafia Factional Kill, because it is meant to be a harmless role and it would leave mafia with only one killing role, the mafioso, that could be easily stopped by a jailor/escort.


Godmother
Mafia Head

Abilities: Protect a mafia member each night, granting night and detection immunity for your target.

Attributes:

Unlike The Godfather, you don’t have night/detection immunity.

You may protect yourself once.

Your visits as a protecting leader to the mafia cannot be seen by spy.

You may perform the factional mafia kill, which can be seen by spy.

You may talk to other mafia members at night.

Special Attributes:

None

Goa,: Kill anyone who opposes to the Mafia? I can’t remember how it was

Win Conditions: Mafia’s win conditions

Investigative Results:

Doctor/Disguiser/Godmother/Serial Killer

Sheriff: Your target is a member of the mafia!

Consigliere: Your target is an overprotective mafia leader. It must be a Godmother!

Witch: Your target protects people with malicious intent. It must be a Godmother!

Additional Information:

This role was made to create a different kind of gameplay. Since spy can’t detect the GM, it will never know if there
is a GM or GF. This role requires a lot of skill, something that GF normally lacks, and can fool vigilantes into believing that an RM is GF, or that a GF could be RM. In some situations, GF is better than GM and viceversa, creating a better utility of the Mafia Head slot. When you die, mafioso won’t turn gf.

Protection will not protect the target against, arsonist, jailor, or bodyguard. If the target is directly attacked by the werewolf, then GM dies since it was visited. If a framer is witched into framing a mafia member who happens to be protected then it will appear as mafia to the sheriff.

If it’s OP, I suggest the following nerfs:

Can’t protect the same target twice.
Can’t protect yourself at all.

Advantages: RNG situations in early game can be stopped as well as serial killers or vigilantes trying to kill your mafia in late can be stopped with skill and a bit of luck.

Disadvantages: Mafia no longer has a consistent inmune target which makes it easier for GM to die and let all the rest without protection.
SERVAT
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:17 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby GoogleFeud » Sun May 13, 2018 10:37 am

An informed minority with a protective is stupid and overpowered. Completely counters all TK except jailor. The whole "healing maf member" concept is broken. Also this role doesn't work without factional kill.. a mechanic that probably won't be introduced to the game anytime soon. (Also it doesn't fit the Mafia's playstyle)
User avatar
GoogleFeud
Role Ideas Moderator
Role Ideas Moderator
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:09 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby SERVAT » Sun May 13, 2018 12:25 pm

GoogleFeud wrote:An informed minority with a protective is stupid and overpowered. Completely counters all TK except jailor. The whole "healing maf member" concept is broken. Also this role doesn't work without factional kill.. a mechanic that probably won't be introduced to the game anytime soon. (Also it doesn't fit the Mafia's playstyle)


Factional mafia kill is in TG for a while now and if any changes are made to the game itself, it’s probably getting added, so that’s not a problem. You don’t really explain why you think the concept is broken, and I’m sorry if it counters a veteran who happened to alert n1, didn’t bait and took out 3 mafia.

Protection counters killers from other factions? It’s broken then. We should remove Doctor too by that logic. If you are going to criticize my role then at least give foundations to your criticism.
SERVAT
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:17 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby GoogleFeud » Sun May 13, 2018 1:39 pm

SERVAT wrote:
GoogleFeud wrote:An informed minority with a protective is stupid and overpowered. Completely counters all TK except jailor. The whole "healing maf member" concept is broken. Also this role doesn't work without factional kill.. a mechanic that probably won't be introduced to the game anytime soon. (Also it doesn't fit the Mafia's playstyle)


Factional mafia kill is in TG for a while now and if any changes are made to the game itself, it’s probably getting added, so that’s not a problem. You don’t really explain why you think the concept is broken, and I’m sorry if it counters a veteran who happened to alert n1, didn’t bait and took out 3 mafia.

Protection counters killers from other factions? It’s broken then. We should remove Doctor too by that logic. If you are going to criticize my role then at least give foundations to your criticism.


Oh yeah guys, let's make it so mafia has it's own doctor who automatically knows who to protect! That's a great idea isn't it? The informed minority doesn't need protection. And don't say "well that's the current situation with jailor", because if we add this it'll make it even worse. It doesn't fix the problem. Other than that, if the TK and SK* die early on this role becomes useless. It really depends and how many TKs there are in order to work and that's bad. It can be OP, and in the same time completely useless.


Also just because something is in TG it doesn't mean it'll get in the game.
User avatar
GoogleFeud
Role Ideas Moderator
Role Ideas Moderator
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:09 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby SERVAT » Sun May 13, 2018 6:12 pm

GoogleFeud wrote:
SERVAT wrote:
GoogleFeud wrote:An informed minority with a protective is stupid and overpowered. Completely counters all TK except jailor. The whole "healing maf member" concept is broken. Also this role doesn't work without factional kill.. a mechanic that probably won't be introduced to the game anytime soon. (Also it doesn't fit the Mafia's playstyle)


Factional mafia kill is in TG for a while now and if any changes are made to the game itself, it’s probably getting added, so that’s not a problem. You don’t really explain why you think the concept is broken, and I’m sorry if it counters a veteran who happened to alert n1, didn’t bait and took out 3 mafia.

Protection counters killers from other factions? It’s broken then. We should remove Doctor too by that logic. If you are going to criticize my role then at least give foundations to your criticism.


Oh yeah guys, let's make it so mafia has it's own doctor who automatically knows who to protect! That's a great idea isn't it? The informed minority doesn't need protection. And don't say "well that's the current situation with jailor", because if we add this it'll make it even worse. It doesn't fix the problem. Other than that, if the TK and SK* die early on this role becomes useless. It really depends and how many TKs there are in order to work and that's bad. It can be OP, and in the same time completely useless.


Also just because something is in TG it doesn't mean it'll get in the game.


First of all, it gives detection immunity too so it counters sheriffs. So when a role counters vigilante, veteran, werewolf, serial killer,and sheriff can you still call it hard counter? I think not so your argument is invalid. Using my previous example, Doctor is useless against arsonist so it should be removed since no maf=no use. You keep saying the minority doesn’t need protection, but coven already has potion master.

IDK what you meant with that Jailor thing. Just made me realize how baseless your criticism is.

Sheriff has no use if there’s only gf. Vigilante has no use if there’s only inmune evils. Doctor is useless if only Arsonist. Escort is useless against sk. Do I have to go on? Almost every role becomes useless in some scenarios. You say it’s useless, it could be, but if the protection is useless in some scenarios, then gf’s immunity is useless too, so it doesn’t change the situation much since it replaces The Godfather.

Mafia factional kill is so widely known and accepted it is bound to be integrated into the game. Since this role depends on it, then it can’t get added if there no mafia factional kill. If no Factional kill this doesn’t get added. I basically said that at the beggining. This is implying it gets added because it is most likely it will.
SERVAT
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:17 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby GoogleFeud » Sun May 13, 2018 11:30 pm

Oh yeah guys, let's make it so mafia has it's own doctor who automatically knows who to protect!
The doctor doesn't know who to heal - he can never 100% trust someone unless ret or jailor, while this role knows who to protect, which is broken, and it doesn't require any skill. You keep ignoring that point, eh?

Oh yeah, some town roles become useless overtime, but sheriff can find 3 other mafia, vigilante can kill 3 other mafia, doctor can save a lot of people, escort dying to SK is actually not useless at all. What about the godmother - oh yea! She can save you from a SK and a Vig/Vet and a sheriff - this is 1 single role and 2 roles that may not roll at all.
While there are potentially 2 killers in the game, and there'll always be 1 kill, so doctor can save way more people. Don't compare them. Another thing - After this role succsesfully heals a maf member, aren't townies going to question it? "We have a dead TP, the healed person is most likely maf!" On the other hand - If the rolelist consists of 2 or more sheriffs and 2 vigis - then the role is stupidly overpowered. The power of the role really depends on the rolelist, and that shouldn't be a thing.

Another thing is that this role makes weak roles even weaker.
User avatar
GoogleFeud
Role Ideas Moderator
Role Ideas Moderator
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:09 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby SERVAT » Mon May 14, 2018 3:02 pm

GoogleFeud wrote:Oh yeah guys, let's make it so mafia has it's own doctor who automatically knows who to protect!
The doctor doesn't know who to heal - he can never 100% trust someone unless ret or jailor, while this role knows who to protect, which is broken, and it doesn't require any skill. You keep ignoring that point, eh?

Oh yeah, some town roles become useless overtime, but sheriff can find 3 other mafia, vigilante can kill 3 other mafia, doctor can save a lot of people, escort dying to SK is actually not useless at all. What about the godmother - oh yea! She can save you from a SK and a Vig/Vet and a sheriff - this is 1 single role and 2 roles that may not roll at all.
While there are potentially 2 killers in the game, and there'll always be 1 kill, so doctor can save way more people. Don't compare them. Another thing - After this role succsesfully heals a maf member, aren't townies going to question it? "We have a dead TP, the healed person is most likely maf!" On the other hand - If the rolelist consists of 2 or more sheriffs and 2 vigis - then the role is stupidly overpowered. The power of the role really depends on the rolelist, and that shouldn't be a thing.

Another thing is that this role makes weak roles even weaker.


First of all, IDK where you got the idea that the GM automatically knows who to protect. As I said, it replaces Godfather as a mafia head, so even if she is useless against a town with no Vigis or sheriffs, then in that scenario GF would be useless too so the mafia head is useless nevertheless. A healing won’t be announced to the town, mafia can always claim vigi never shot, and if town questions every RT doc claim even more, then it’s a good thing. The point of inmunity is questioning it.

If you are going to say my role is OP, which is completely not the justified by your other comments, then at least explain why you think that.
SERVAT
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:17 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby GoogleFeud » Mon May 14, 2018 11:03 pm

You really are something because I just did.
Of course the GM automatically knows who to protect, HER TEAMMATES ARE IN THE MAFIA LIST. When there are no vigis / sheriff, yes, he counters them in a way, but GF is also useful against jailor, a confirmed role in the game, any escorts and SKs and any other role that can roleblock really.

Okay, there are 2 sheriffs and 2 vigis (both not very strong roles), GM successfully protects all maf members from vigi attacks and sheriff checks, leaving the town without TIs and an additional night killer. Doesn't that sound OP to you?

" A healing won’t be announced to the town, mafia can always claim vigi never shot, and if town questions every RT doc claim even more, then it’s a good thing. The point of inmunity is questioning it. "

mafia can always claim vigi never shot... and so they hang the vigi and then every mafia member that pushed him.. or even worse, they hang the mafia member first.
GM also can't really claim doctor..
User avatar
GoogleFeud
Role Ideas Moderator
Role Ideas Moderator
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:09 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby SERVAT » Tue May 15, 2018 5:34 am

GoogleFeud wrote:You really are something because I just did.
Of course the GM automatically knows who to protect, HER TEAMMATES ARE IN THE MAFIA LIST. When there are no vigis / sheriff, yes, he counters them in a way, but GF is also useful against jailor, a confirmed role in the game, any escorts and SKs and any other role that can roleblock really.

Okay, there are 2 sheriffs and 2 vigis (both not very strong roles), GM successfully protects all maf members from vigi attacks and sheriff checks, leaving the town without TIs and an additional night killer. Doesn't that sound OP to you?

" A healing won’t be announced to the town, mafia can always claim vigi never shot, and if town questions every RT doc claim even more, then it’s a good thing. The point of inmunity is questioning it. "

mafia can always claim vigi never shot... and so they hang the vigi and then every mafia member that pushed him.. or even worse, they hang the mafia member first.
GM also can't really claim doctor..


Seems you misunderstood the role lmao. She can only protect her mafia members, but she can fail. If there are three, then there’s 1/3 chance of protecting them for example because vigi might shoot a member who wasn’t protected. Town’s night killer is Jaílor, which can’t be stopped by GM (idk where you got the from), vigilante can still attack afterwards but with more skill in play.

Your last paragraph is just stupid. That’s what happens with every inmune player. Take GF for example, when he Is shot he has to defend himself and so will NK roles. GM can’t claim Doctor, but that’s a problem for almost all investigator results and ‘Disguiser’ clearly doesn’t belong.

I see you changed your argument from ‘mafia doesn’t need protection and it’s unneeded’ to ‘it’s OP’, and I’ve suggested changes to make it less OP, read them if you want.
SERVAT
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:17 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby fwogcarf » Tue May 15, 2018 6:15 am

Alright, guess it's my turn to look at this role.

I haven't seen this concept before, so i guess that's good. However, I do see some problems with this role. Granting night and detection immunity can make the mafia factions as a whole too difficult to find out completely. To fix this, The Godmother should be the first role to turn into a mafioso (not a Godfather, cause that's weird). This should provide overall balance to this role and make town's priority for mafia to shift from MK to this role, which could make some interesting games.

When you say she can fail, how does she fail? Because as I recall there is nowhere in the role, unless you're implying something else that I didn't spot, like roleblocking and stuff.
Spoiler: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M79vYZu-WIKrW0WQ0pCISBq66DeBfSir5T7RCuy0OWY/edit?usp=sharing
We are creators of our own future


We are supporters of forces against despair


We defend against the evils of the world


We are guardians, we are strong
User avatar
fwogcarf
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby GoogleFeud » Tue May 15, 2018 11:02 am

SERVAT wrote:
GoogleFeud wrote:You really are something because I just did.
Of course the GM automatically knows who to protect, HER TEAMMATES ARE IN THE MAFIA LIST. When there are no vigis / sheriff, yes, he counters them in a way, but GF is also useful against jailor, a confirmed role in the game, any escorts and SKs and any other role that can roleblock really.

Okay, there are 2 sheriffs and 2 vigis (both not very strong roles), GM successfully protects all maf members from vigi attacks and sheriff checks, leaving the town without TIs and an additional night killer. Doesn't that sound OP to you?

" A healing won’t be announced to the town, mafia can always claim vigi never shot, and if town questions every RT doc claim even more, then it’s a good thing. The point of inmunity is questioning it. "

mafia can always claim vigi never shot... and so they hang the vigi and then every mafia member that pushed him.. or even worse, they hang the mafia member first.
GM also can't really claim doctor..


Seems you misunderstood the role lmao. She can only protect her mafia members, but she can fail. If there are three, then there’s 1/3 chance of protecting them for example because vigi might shoot a member who wasn’t protected. Town’s night killer is Jaílor, which can’t be stopped by GM (idk where you got the from), vigilante can still attack afterwards but with more skill in play.

Your last paragraph is just stupid. That’s what happens with every inmune player. Take GF for example, when he Is shot he has to defend himself and so will NK roles. GM can’t claim Doctor, but that’s a problem for almost all investigator results and ‘Disguiser’ clearly doesn’t belong.

I see you changed your argument from ‘mafia doesn’t need protection and it’s unneeded’ to ‘it’s OP’, and I’ve suggested changes to make it less OP, read them if you want.


No, you completely misunderstood my last post.
Yes, I know all that, and yes, unlike the doctor, who has to scumread and trust people, the Godmother gets the list of all the mafia. The jailor part isn't even about the godmother but the GF, I was responding to your "GF is weak" point.

I can have multiple arguments. The ‘mafia doesn’t need protection and it’s unneeded’ argument stands, just because I didn't mention it in the previous post doesn't mean I've changed it. The concept is bad.
User avatar
GoogleFeud
Role Ideas Moderator
Role Ideas Moderator
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:09 am

Re: Godmother (Mafia Head)

Postby Seththeking » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:11 am

Ok so If I understand this correctly.
Overall it is Balanced, and here's why.

You don't have Any Defence or Night Detection Immunity
(Even though all Mafia Head's Should)

Your giving the Defence and Night Detection immunity to another mafia member
that lasts for one night.

You can only give it to yourself once.

Overall regardless of what people say, "Smart" people will know that this role changes nothing about Mafia Head.
This is a Mafia Head the passes on its 2 Buffs to other mafia players but only for that night.

Overall it is quite balanced /Support
Image
User avatar
Seththeking
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:03 pm


Return to Role Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests