Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Old Role Ideas

Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:34 pm

Hey so I know it's been a long time since I made some new roles but here they are.
Please tell me if you want me to add your role information in my role ideas.
Please also tell me if I should change anything.

Role Name: Kidnapper

Role Alignment: Mafia Support

Attributes and Abilities
Spoiler: Attributes: None

Priority: (When kidnapping) Behind jailor. (When visiting target) Before veteran.

Abilities: Choose someone to kidnap.
Can only kidnap twice.
Kidnaps last 2 nights maximum.


Goal and Wins with
Spoiler: Goal:
Kill anyone who will not submit to the mafia

Wins with:
The Mafia
The Witches
Survivors
Guardian Angels
Pirates


Special Attributes and Investigative results
Spoiler: Special Attributes:
Can hear the mafia chat
Can be promoted to mafioso

Investigative results:
Sheriff: Your target is a member of the mafia!
Investigator: Your target knows your darkest secrets. They could be a Spy, Blackmailer, Jailor, Guardian Angel, or Kidnapper.
Consigliere/Witch/Coven Leader: Your target kidnaps people for the greater good of the mafia. They must be a Kidnapper.


Extra Info:
Spoiler: The kidnapped player will automatically be released if the kidnapper gets killed.
The kidnapped player will not be alerted they were kidnapped.
All attacking roles besides the jailor, vampire hunter, and veteran can decide to attack the kidnapper one night.
Kidnapped players will receive a basic defense.
Kidnapped players will be able to vote, however it will not count unless it is the last vote needed to up the target. This will not affect the mayor.
Kidnapped players can only visit mafia members. Otherwise they will be "roleblocked". (They won't really be roleblocked, but it will look like to them that they were because they will get no information back.)


If's and Messages
Spoiler: If's:
If an attack on the kidnapper happens and it fails the kidnapper will be notified if it was by the kidnapped target.
If the kidnapped player is killed by the mafia, their will will be confiscated by the mafia. So just like the janitor, their will cannot be seen by anyone but the mafia. Just like the janitor too, the mafia can check the will at any time during the night. (The mafia cannot see the will during the day)
If a witch/coven leader targets the kidnapped player, no matter what their role is they will attack the kidnapper even if they weren't targeted to him.
If the retributionist was kidnapped, they can still revive someone while still kidnapped.
If the kidnapper gets promoted to mafioso then the kidnapped player will escape on the next night.
If a vigilante decides to attack someone he will use his one of his three bullets on the kidnapper instead.
If the kidnapped player is attacked while kidnapped, they will not receive the message of someone attacked you but your defense was too strong.
If the mafia decides to attack the kidnapped player while kidnapped, they will bypass traps, bodyguards, and crusaders.
If a killing role decides to attack they will attack the kidnapper instead of who they actually target. (Only if the killing role is kidnapped.)

Messages:
"You have decided to kidnap player" (When deciding to kidnap)
"You have decided not to kidnap player" (when deciding not to kidnap)
"The person you kidnapped decided to attack you!" (When the kidnapped player attacks you.)
"The person you kidnapped decided to attack you, but it failed! (When the kidnapped player attacks you but it fails.)"


Version: 1.5.1

Change logs:
Spoiler: 1.1: Changed who can be kidnapped, some if's, what happens when the kidnapper is jailed, what happens if the kidnapper is roleblocked, what happens if the medium is kidnapped, and made him witch immune. (Also changed a typo)
1.2: Made big rework to the role.
1.3: Added some if's and changed the extra info after some suggestions in the contest
1.4: Changed it so that lookout can target the kidnapped player, made it so serial killer and werewolf will not automatically attack the kidnapper and made it so they can choose. Also removed the "puppet" part of this role.
1.5: Made all roles be able to use their ability on the mafia only. Made jailor and mayor kidnappable. Made kidnapped players able to speak, whisper, and kind of vote. Made it so that the kidnapped target is not attacked by the mafia if they attack the kidnapper. Made spy be able to see visits to the kidnapped player. Also made the kidnapped player able to be visited. Made it so that if they are attacked by a non rampaging role they will be immune. Kidnapped players now receive basic defense while kidnapped. No longer unique. Made it so that the veteran can alert while kidnapped. Made it so that their will can never be accessed. Added some more if's and messages. Changed a bit about what happens with veterans and vigilantes while kidnapped.
1.5.1: Added what kidnapping does.
Last edited by MCGamerXVI on Sat May 12, 2018 6:37 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby LRyuzakiL » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:54 pm

I just made a post for a role similar to this (and the same name). Did you decide to rework my idea or did you think of your own? You should post this feedback on the thread for the other mafia kidnapper idea if the other post gave you this idea.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:09 pm

Well some of the parts like the mafia members visiting the kidnapped player, is from yours, but the rest is from 2 other role ideas I have, which I haven't posted.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:34 pm

*Bump*

I need some feedback please.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby ManateeDude » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:09 am

So consort+blackmailer?

/nosupport
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby SkyW » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:50 am

They can't talk, they can't vote, and they can't use any abilities.

Essentially, this person is dead. They can not, in any way, harm the mafia. They can not shoot them, investigate them, effect them, share their findings, or act upon their findings. Plus there's the additional benefit of them still counting as alive, so once you have two people kidnapped the town could be lynch blocked as a whole.

Example:

3 Mafia
5 Non-kidnapped townies
2 Kidnapped townies

The town would need 6 votes to hang someone, but if the mafia refuses to vote they can't lynch anyone as they only have 5 votes worth of voting even though they should have 7, enough to lynch a mafia.

Even if you can't kidnap more that two people at a time, the point still stands, you have basically killed someone but they still stall votes. Even worse, they can not be voted on, so it's not like the town can get rid of these voteblocks unless they kill them with a TK, but then the TK can't kill anymore. Thus, the only way to get rid of voteblocks is to kill the kidnapper, but the town can't kill the kidnapper because they can't lynch anyone.

And even though they've died, their will is not released.
And even though they've died, they can not speak to the medium
And even though they've died, they can't be revived
And even though they've died, they can still be killed by the NK, wasting the NK's turn.

/nosupport Independent mafia killing.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:45 am

SkyW wrote:They can't talk, they can't vote, and they can't use any abilities.

Essentially, this person is dead. They can not, in any way, harm the mafia. They can not shoot them, investigate them, effect them, share their findings, or act upon their findings. Plus there's the additional benefit of them still counting as alive, so once you have two people kidnapped the town could be lynch blocked as a whole.

Example:

3 Mafia
5 Non-kidnapped townies
2 Kidnapped townies

The town would need 6 votes to hang someone, but if the mafia refuses to vote they can't lynch anyone as they only have 5 votes worth of voting even though they should have 7, enough to lynch a mafia.

Even if you can't kidnap more that two people at a time, the point still stands, you have basically killed someone but they still stall votes. Even worse, they can not be voted on, so it's not like the town can get rid of these voteblocks unless they kill them with a TK, but then the TK can't kill anymore. Thus, the only way to get rid of voteblocks is to kill the kidnapper, but the town can't kill the kidnapper because they can't lynch anyone.

And even though they've died, their will is not released.
And even though they've died, they can not speak to the medium
And even though they've died, they can't be revived
And even though they've died, they can still be killed by the NK, wasting the NK's turn.

/nosupport Independent mafia killing.


There can only be 1 kidnapped person at a time.

And even though they've died, their will is not released.
And even though they've died, they can not speak to the medium
And even though they've died, they can't be revived
And even though they've died, they can still be killed by the NK, wasting the NK's turn.

What does that mean ^
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby SkyW » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:50 am

MCGamerXVI wrote:
SkyW wrote:They can't talk, they can't vote, and they can't use any abilities.

Essentially, this person is dead. They can not, in any way, harm the mafia. They can not shoot them, investigate them, effect them, share their findings, or act upon their findings. Plus there's the additional benefit of them still counting as alive, so once you have two people kidnapped the town could be lynch blocked as a whole.

Example:

3 Mafia
5 Non-kidnapped townies
2 Kidnapped townies

The town would need 6 votes to hang someone, but if the mafia refuses to vote they can't lynch anyone as they only have 5 votes worth of voting even though they should have 7, enough to lynch a mafia.

Even if you can't kidnap more that two people at a time, the point still stands, you have basically killed someone but they still stall votes. Even worse, they can not be voted on, so it's not like the town can get rid of these voteblocks unless they kill them with a TK, but then the TK can't kill anymore. Thus, the only way to get rid of voteblocks is to kill the kidnapper, but the town can't kill the kidnapper because they can't lynch anyone.

And even though they've died, their will is not released.
And even though they've died, they can not speak to the medium
And even though they've died, they can't be revived
And even though they've died, they can still be killed by the NK, wasting the NK's turn.

/nosupport Independent mafia killing.


There can only be 1 kidnapped person at a time.

And even though they've died, their will is not released.
And even though they've died, they can not speak to the medium
And even though they've died, they can't be revived
And even though they've died, they can still be killed by the NK, wasting the NK's turn.

What does that mean ^


Irrelevant, having one person fake dead at a time still allows for you to have a faux kill and vote staller.

And "That" meant, that they are in a state between being alive in dead really. They can't do anything a dead person does, nor can they do anything an alive person can do. It's like deleting someone from the game but the game still puts them on the vote counter. The only way for them to escape that limbo is for them to be killed by the NK, to which you can just take someone else.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby BeastlyMC956 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:59 am

Every player should have the basic ability to talk and vote and making the jailor be able to be kidnapped is just ridiculous.

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Spoiler: Town:
Witch Doctor - Town (Support)

Mafia:
Luminary - Mafia (Support)

Coven:
N/A

Neutral:
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:02 pm

They will not be considered on the vote counter. How about that?

And Unique roles besides retributionist cant be kidnapped good?
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby SkyW » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:18 pm

MCGamerXVI wrote:They will not be considered on the vote counter. How about that?

And Unique roles besides retributionist cant be kidnapped good?


YOU JUST ACTIVATED MY

TRAP CARD!

Now that they don't count for the vote counter, they are now 100% gone from anything that made them a living player. However they are also fully removed from anything a dead player gets.

It's essentially a single advanced kill performed by the mafia, totally silencing a player.

No matter how you think of it, voiding a player is basically a kill. Any no amount of restraints will stop this from being an independent mafia killing.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:35 pm

How is this a mafia killing? The kidnapper cannot kill unless they were attacked by the person who was kidnapped.

If this role is added anyway I would like another role to be added too...
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby SkyW » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:20 pm

MCGamerXVI wrote:How is this a mafia killing? The kidnapper cannot kill unless they were attacked by the person who was kidnapped.

If this role is added anyway I would like another role to be added too...


What do you call it when a player is

1. Unable to talk
2. Unable to vote
3. Unable to perform abilities
4. Unable to be voted on
5. Unable to do literally anything
6. No longer affect the game in anyway

Sure, it's not dead. But that player might as well be dead. Dead players can actually do more than a kidnapped player. You can just kidnap someone and wait till the end of the game to kill them. It's basically killing them. And independent mafia killing is a bad thing.

How are you unable to grasp the concept that the kidnapped player is equivalent to a dead player.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby ImposterK » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:05 pm

Responses in Green.
Spoiler:
MCGamerXVI wrote:Role Name: Kidnapper

Abilities: Choose someone to kidnap.
Some of the things that you have under the "Extra Info" section should be here. (I'll get to it later.)
Special Attributes and Investigative results
Special Attributes:
Can hear the mafia chat
Can be promoted to mafioso
Can listen to the kidnapped player
Investigator: Your target hides in the shadows. They could be a Lookout, Forger, Witch/Coven Leader, or Kidnapper.
Although these investigative results work for the lore, it would be impossible for this role to claim to be the Lookout.

Extra Info:
You may only kidnap twice. This should be under the "Abilities" section.
The kidnapped player's vote will not count to the vote counter.
The Kidnapped player can do everything like normal, but their votes and messages will not be seen. Even whispers. They can still use their abilities at night, but it will only work on the mafia. The kidnapped player essentially cannot vote or speak. Blackmailing and Voteblocking is frowned upon because these are essential for the Town to win. If a player is unable to vote or speak, they are useless to the town. If a players ability only works on the Mafia, they will be able to figure out who is in the Mafia if their ability fails or not.
The kidnapped player can talk to the kidnapper however. This ability is useless because the kidnapped player can see that they're kidnapped. (They will speak and nobody will answer. They will vote and it won't be counted.)
The kidnapper may also release the target at any time. Why would they release the kidnapped player? They can only kidnap 2 people and releasing them wastes a charge.
The mafia can listen to what the kidnapped player says. Why can the entire Mafia listen? And why would the kidnapped player say anything?
Just like the jailor, the kidnapper's name will not be revealed. So they will be called the "Kidnapper". This ability is also useless because there is no reason for the kidnapped player and the Kidnapper to communicate.
The kidnapper's name will be revealed to the kidnapped player if their kidnapped player gets killed or escapes. This will get the Kidnapper killed because the kidnapped player will tell the Medium who the Kidnapper is when they die.
The kidnapper's investigative results will be the one's of their kidnapped player. The Kidnapper does not know the role of the kidnapped player and would not be able to claim their role.

These roles can target the kidnapped player: All mafia roles, Spy, Medium, Mystic, Guardian Angel, Jester, Werewolf, and the Witch/Coven Leader. The Kidnapper will become an investigative role with this ability because they will know when their ability fails. Also, whats a "Mystic"?
The Coven Leader cannot kill kidnapped players by draining life.
The Vampire Hunter cannot attack the Kidnapper. Why does the kidnapped player have immunity from the Coven Leader and Vampire Hunter?
Kidnapped players cannot be put on trial. Everyone will know that the player is kidnapped if they cannot vote for the kidnapped player.
The kidnapper cannot kidnap any unique roles besides the retributionist. They Kidnapper will become an Investigator with this ability. I understand that you don't want it to be overpowered because it'll be able to kidnap important Town roles, but if its ability fails when trying to kidnap an important Town role, the Kidnapper can tell other Mafia members and they will be killed.

If's and Messages
If's:
If an attack on the kidnapper from a TK, NC, or NK happens, and it fails they will be killed by the kidnapper himself. This is an overpowered ability and doesn't make any sense. Mafia Support roles should not be able to kill.
If the kidnapped player is killed by the mafia, their will will be confiscated by the mafia. So just like the janitor, their will cannot be seen by anyone but the mafia. Just like the janitor too, the mafia can check the will at any time during the night. (The mafia cannot see the will during the day)
If the target is witched by the witch/coven leader they will automatically attack the kidnapper. These 2 abilities makes sense lore-wise, but is very unbalanced when it comes to gameplay.
If the a player targets the kidnapped player (normally by controlling) they will get their target was not home message. This ability is useless because every player knows that the kidnapped player was kidnapped. (They're unable to vote for the kidnapped player to be lynched.)
If the retributionist was kidnapped, they can still revive someone while still kidnapped.
If the kidnapper gets jailed, then their target gets set free automatically.
If the kidnapper gets roleblocked, then their target gets set free automatically. These final 3 abilities help out the role a little bit, but it doesn't balance out the other aspects that make it overpowered.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:17 pm

Made a big rework of the role off of what people said.

*Bump*
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:32 am

*Bump*

Need feedback after big rework
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:51 pm

Made some changes need feedback again.

*Bump*
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby fwogcarf » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:19 pm

Nice changes
Spoiler: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M79vYZu-WIKrW0WQ0pCISBq66DeBfSir5T7RCuy0OWY/edit?usp=sharing
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We are supporters of forces against despair


We defend against the evils of the world


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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:33 pm

Thank you man.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:34 am

uhh overly complex and kind of pointless role

/nosupport
I am kindly telling you to fuck off. Thank you.

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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby MCGamerXVI » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:17 pm

How is it pointless?

It helps out the mafia win in votes, roleblocks the target, and prevents them from speaking. However they can only target the mafia if they are town support or town investigative, which is the downside. Also another downside is that the kidnapper can die if he jails a killing role.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby BrendonJunior » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:54 pm

MCGamerXVI wrote:How is it pointless?

It helps out the mafia win in votes, roleblocks the target, and prevents them from speaking. However they can only target the mafia if they are town support or town investigative, which is the downside. Also another downside is that the kidnapper can die if he jails a killing role.


I think you now understand how it feels to have others give some useless one liner and say
/nosupport

TBH this subforums wreaks of this problem. IDK if it is due to laziness or the general urge to shove others below you, but the kind of comments (like the one above MCGamerXVI)have got to stop. Either respond intelligently or do not respond.

Rant over, onto the role itself:

I like the concept to kidnapping people and making their powers less useful, but there are a few factors I do NOT like. These include:

kidnapping a NK will automatically result in death

and

(hate to say this) the role is too complex! IMHO a role should be simple in play. I hate using this language, but the role should be "idiot proof" to where you don't get confused on what the role does!

Here are my suggested changes: (presume no change if I don't make a point on it)
Kidnapping works like being jailed for the auto-moderator (except a jailor's jail beats a kidnapping) with exceptions
You still are kidnapped for 2 days max
ONCE per game, the kidnapper may choose to kill (unstoppable attack) the kidnapped. If he does, the mafioso/GF can not kill for the night. This is to bypass the mafia having 2 kills per night thing.

Cheers and GL
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby BasicFourLife » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:27 am

BrendonJunior wrote:
MCGamerXVI wrote:How is it pointless?

It helps out the mafia win in votes, roleblocks the target, and prevents them from speaking. However they can only target the mafia if they are town support or town investigative, which is the downside. Also another downside is that the kidnapper can die if he jails a killing role.


I think you now understand how it feels to have others give some useless one liner and say
/nosupport

TBH this subforums wreaks of this problem. IDK if it is due to laziness or the general urge to shove others below you, but the kind of comments (like the one above MCGamerXVI)have got to stop. Either respond intelligently or do not respond.

Rant over, onto the role itself:

I like the concept to kidnapping people and making their powers less useful, but there are a few factors I do NOT like. These include:

kidnapping a NK will automatically result in death

and

(hate to say this) the role is too complex! IMHO a role should be simple in play. I hate using this language, but the role should be "idiot proof" to where you don't get confused on what the role does!

Here are my suggested changes: (presume no change if I don't make a point on it)
Kidnapping works like being jailed for the auto-moderator (except a jailor's jail beats a kidnapping) with exceptions
You still are kidnapped for 2 days max
ONCE per game, the kidnapper may choose to kill (unstoppable attack) the kidnapped. If he does, the mafioso/GF can not kill for the night. This is to bypass the mafia having 2 kills per night thing.

Cheers and GL

What you suggested already exists
I am kindly telling you to fuck off. Thank you.

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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby BrendonJunior » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:03 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
BrendonJunior wrote:
MCGamerXVI wrote:How is it pointless?

It helps out the mafia win in votes, roleblocks the target, and prevents them from speaking. However they can only target the mafia if they are town support or town investigative, which is the downside. Also another downside is that the kidnapper can die if he jails a killing role.


I think you now understand how it feels to have others give some useless one liner and say
/nosupport

TBH this subforums wreaks of this problem. IDK if it is due to laziness or the general urge to shove others below you, but the kind of comments (like the one above MCGamerXVI)have got to stop. Either respond intelligently or do not respond.

Rant over, onto the role itself:

I like the concept to kidnapping people and making their powers less useful, but there are a few factors I do NOT like. These include:

kidnapping a NK will automatically result in death

and

(hate to say this) the role is too complex! IMHO a role should be simple in play. I hate using this language, but the role should be "idiot proof" to where you don't get confused on what the role does!

Here are my suggested changes: (presume no change if I don't make a point on it)
Kidnapping works like being jailed for the auto-moderator (except a jailor's jail beats a kidnapping) with exceptions
You still are kidnapped for 2 days max
ONCE per game, the kidnapper may choose to kill (unstoppable attack) the kidnapped. If he does, the mafioso/GF can not kill for the night. This is to bypass the mafia having 2 kills per night thing.

Cheers and GL

What you suggested already exists


Well not quite. Note that:

In his version, kidnapped players CAN use their role abilities; in mine, they can not (like being jailed). If you missed it, refer to the sheriff still checking under extra info.

Also kindly note that in my version, the kidnapped player looks like they are jailed (itll say kidnapped, but others cant visit and ww/pest cant rampage to the kidnapper if the kidnapped target is selected.
Last edited by BrendonJunior on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mafia Support: The Kidnapper

Postby BasicFourLife » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:06 am

BrendonJunior wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:
BrendonJunior wrote:
MCGamerXVI wrote:How is it pointless?

It helps out the mafia win in votes, roleblocks the target, and prevents them from speaking. However they can only target the mafia if they are town support or town investigative, which is the downside. Also another downside is that the kidnapper can die if he jails a killing role.


I think you now understand how it feels to have others give some useless one liner and say
/nosupport

TBH this subforums wreaks of this problem. IDK if it is due to laziness or the general urge to shove others below you, but the kind of comments (like the one above MCGamerXVI)have got to stop. Either respond intelligently or do not respond.

Rant over, onto the role itself:

I like the concept to kidnapping people and making their powers less useful, but there are a few factors I do NOT like. These include:

kidnapping a NK will automatically result in death

and

(hate to say this) the role is too complex! IMHO a role should be simple in play. I hate using this language, but the role should be "idiot proof" to where you don't get confused on what the role does!

Here are my suggested changes: (presume no change if I don't make a point on it)
Kidnapping works like being jailed for the auto-moderator (except a jailor's jail beats a kidnapping) with exceptions
You still are kidnapped for 2 days max
ONCE per game, the kidnapper may choose to kill (unstoppable attack) the kidnapped. If he does, the mafioso/GF can not kill for the night. This is to bypass the mafia having 2 kills per night thing.

Cheers and GL

What you suggested already exists


Well not quite. Note that:

In his version, kidnapped players CAN use their role abilities; in mine, they can not (like being jailed). If you missed it, refer to the sheriff still checking under extra info.

a stronger role like that already exists aka Underboss
I am kindly telling you to fuck off. Thank you.

FM / TG: 5 - 10 - 8
BasicFourLife
[Forum Mafia XVI] Winner
[Forum Mafia XVI] Winner
 
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