Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

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Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby DemonicKraken » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:13 pm

Role Name: Laserbearer

Role Alignment: Neutral Killing

Attributes:
[*]Charge of 1 is Basic Atk. Charge of 2 adds the ability to attack two people. Charge of 3 adds Powerful Atk and "Disintegrated" (clean kill). Charge of 4 adds the ability to attack 3 people.
[*]A witch forces you to fire, but a witch firing your laser only removes 2 charge instead of all. If you have a charge of 2 or more, the witch randomly replaces one of your original targets.
[*]Charge happens at the start of the night.
[*]Unique role.


Abilities: Every night, your laser charges. You can attack any night, and the type of attack depends on how charged the laser is.

Goal: Kill everyone else.

Wins with: Usual NK.

Special Attributes: Nil

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Laserbearer
Investigator: TBD
Consig/Witch: Your target charges up a death laser. They must be the Laserbearer.

Lore (credit to Cut):
Spoiler: The result of a science experiment gone awry, the Laserbearer was thought to be a mere myth by many up until one fateful eve where a man dedicated to tempt fate, wandering into the long-abandoned science laboratory where the legend of the Laserbearer had originated from.

The smell of smoke filled his lungs as he advanced through the patient's ward, unable to make out much in the darkness that engulfed the facility. The man fumbled with his flashlight but managed to turn it on eventually, drawing back in horror as it shone upon a headless corpse sitting in a chair. The man gasped in horror and put a hand against the crimson painted wall to steady himself, only to be horrified once again as what he had thought to have been wallpaper turned out to be a coating of blood.

Terrified, the man sprinted back the way he came, looking for the exit to the labyrinth he had so foolishly entered. Dead end after dead end faced the unfortunate adventurer, but just as he thought all hope was lost, he made out the figure of a girl in the shadows, observing him. She had a tag around her wrist and her clothes were torn, but the only thing that mattered to the man was if she knew the way out of this Hell he had become trapped within. He cried out in joy as she moved towards him, but that cry of joy quickly turned into a cry of terror as a harsh light emenating from her very being engulfed him.

The man was found outside the entrance to the laboratory the next day by a Doctor who was passing by on their way to visit a poisoned patient. The Doctor was knowledgable in the arts, but even he failed to explain to the townspeople of Salem what could have burned a circular hole through the torso of the deceased, leaving nothing behind but the smell of smoke.
Last edited by DemonicKraken on Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:22 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby ManateeDude » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:09 am

wayyyyy to UP. you basically get .33 KPN if you use your first option, otherwise it takes to long. buff it.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby DemonicKraken » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:28 am

Considered it, and tried nerfing it since I realized 6 nights without attacking or dying or being witched is still a fairly long time.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby ManateeDude » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:32 pm

much more balanced now. question tho does the laser gain a charge when ur firing it?
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby DemonicKraken » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:50 pm

The charge happens at the start of the night, except for the first one.

Ex: N1, can't fire. N2, charge 1. N3, charge 2, fire a beam of charge 2.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby SkyW » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:08 pm

Despite the fact that this is a JoaT, which tends to mean that it covers way too much ground for no reason, it's also literally just the SK.
Let's compare it directly too the SK to see what I mean.

Laserbearer:

- .9999 KPN Potential (N1 no kill, N2 and beyond is a kill. This means that if there was an infinite number of people you would be killing on average .99999 people per night)
- Detected by sheriff as "Laser bearer"
- Basic defense
- Basic attack when used at minimum charge to maximize KPN
- You do not state what happens with an escort, but let's say that you are able to be role blocked. That just means the next night will start off with an astral attack instead of a basic attack. If you do kill the escort if they visit you, then you kill the escort upon visit. Same thing with jailor.
- NK wincon
- Non unique
- Does have the option to do other types of attacks at the expense of KPN.


Serial Killer:

- 1 KPN Potential (N1 no kill, N2 and beyond is a kill. This means that if there was an infinite number of people you would be killing on average .99999 people per night)
- Detected by sheriff as "serial killer"
- Basic defense
- Basic attack
- Kills escort and jailer when blocked by them
- NK wincon
- Non unique

The differences between them are that Laserbearer has worse KPN, and can lower this further in exchange for different types of attacks while the SK has a higher KPN. However this does not matter, as most of the laserbearer's extra abilities are useless.

Charge of 1 is Basic Atk. Charge of 2 adds Astral. Charge of 3 adds Roleblock. Charge of 4 is a Powerful Atk. Charge of 5 adds Rampage. Charge of 6 is an Unstoppable Atk. No matter the charge, you have Basic Defense.


Astral attack is the most useful out of all of them, giving a small bonus for an extra day of waiting. Problem is that a game normally lasts 5/6 MAYBE 7, if you do go ahead and use an astral attack then you would be skipping a day of killing so that you may attack without worrying about a bodyguard or lookout. Instead of skipping a day you could just, attack someone who isn't being protected by a lookout or bodyguard.

RB attacks are a worse effect than astral, it needs two nights of killing skipped. There is not a single situation where RB is a useful effect in conjunction with astral. Think about it, who would you ever need to role block kill besides a doctor who is self healing that night. Not only that you have to predict that a doctor is going to self heal and not use the astral kill after one night of waiting.

Powerful attack... yay.... you can now kill godfathers/arsos/ww/people with basic defense. However you also didn't kill for 3 nights so the town has 3 more people than it should and are dominating the game at this point. You have the power to kill people who are eliminating the town for you as you wait for no reason.

Rampage. Oh the irony. Your reward for actively not killing people is the ability to kill multiple people. Do you see the problem with that? Do you see the problem with giving up the ability to have 4 additional kills so that you may try to get those kills back. Also like I said with the RB, you would need to know in advance where people are going to be. In order for this to pay off you need to attack somewhere where you would get 5 kills. WW only needs to wait one night for that chance, and they never get it. Maybe they occasionally kill two people, and it's a nice surprise if you kill three. But this will never pay off.

Unstoppable. THE KING OF USELESSNESS. Your reward for not killing anyone for a grand total of 5 days is.... a loss! There is no way that you could ever reach this without the town getting way ahead of the mafia and the NK especially when they have 5 extra members. However if by some miracle it's not then you have the ability to kill MAYBE 3 of them.

So now that we know that all of those abilities aren't ever going to be used, it's clear as day that this is just an off brand SK with slightly different interactions with escorts and jailors.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby DemonicKraken » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:30 pm

Alright, I've taken what you said into account, and changed a few things.


The part about it not being unique was sort of a mistake on my part. I mostly intended for it to be unique.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby DemonicKraken » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:44 pm

Changed it again. This thing is hard to balance...
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby EvanFishsticks » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:57 pm

SkyW wrote:Despite the fact that this is a JoaT, which tends to mean that it covers way too much ground for no reason, it's also literally just the SK.
Let's compare it directly too the SK to see what I mean.

Laserbearer:

- .9999 KPN Potential (N1 no kill, N2 and beyond is a kill. This means that if there was an infinite number of people you would be killing on average .99999 people per night)
- Detected by sheriff as "Laser bearer"
- Basic defense
- Basic attack when used at minimum charge to maximize KPN
- You do not state what happens with an escort, but let's say that you are able to be role blocked. That just means the next night will start off with an astral attack instead of a basic attack. If you do kill the escort if they visit you, then you kill the escort upon visit. Same thing with jailor.
- NK wincon
- Non unique
- Does have the option to do other types of attacks at the expense of KPN.


Serial Killer:

- 1 KPN Potential (N1 no kill, N2 and beyond is a kill. This means that if there was an infinite number of people you would be killing on average .99999 people per night)
- Detected by sheriff as "serial killer"
- Basic defense
- Basic attack
- Kills escort and jailer when blocked by them
- NK wincon
- Non unique

The differences between them are that Laserbearer has worse KPN, and can lower this further in exchange for different types of attacks while the SK has a higher KPN. However this does not matter, as most of the laserbearer's extra abilities are useless.

The SK can kill N1. Your argument that this is just a rehashed SK is also pretty flimsy. The Laserbearer is actually more similar to Arsonist/Werewolf than SK. Both Arsonist and Werewolf trade killing every night for more powerful and potentially multiple kills in one night. Every night that a Laserbearer charges is like an Arsonist dousing someone. They put off killing one or two people to kill more people later. The difference is that the Laserbearer also gains Astral kills instead of framing victims like the Arsonist does. Werewolf can only kill every other night, but does so with Powerful Rampage attacks. The Laserbearer seems to me like a hybrid between all of the NK's. It has some of the versatility of a Serial Killer, and some of the power of Werewolf and Arsonist, but it doesn't take either aspect so far that it becomes a more overpowered version of any of them.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby SkyW » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:25 pm

Hello EvanFishsticks, haven't actually talked to you on the forums before. Pleasure to meet you, but not like this.

EvanFishsticks wrote:
Spoiler:
SkyW wrote:Despite the fact that this is a JoaT, which tends to mean that it covers way too much ground for no reason, it's also literally just the SK.
Let's compare it directly too the SK to see what I mean.

Laserbearer:

- .9999 KPN Potential (N1 no kill, N2 and beyond is a kill. This means that if there was an infinite number of people you would be killing on average .99999 people per night)
- Detected by sheriff as "Laser bearer"
- Basic defense
- Basic attack when used at minimum charge to maximize KPN
- You do not state what happens with an escort, but let's say that you are able to be role blocked. That just means the next night will start off with an astral attack instead of a basic attack. If you do kill the escort if they visit you, then you kill the escort upon visit. Same thing with jailor.
- NK wincon
- Non unique
- Does have the option to do other types of attacks at the expense of KPN.


Serial Killer:

- 1 KPN Potential (N1 no kill, N2 and beyond is a kill. This means that if there was an infinite number of people you would be killing on average .99999 people per night)
- Detected by sheriff as "serial killer"
- Basic defense
- Basic attack
- Kills escort and jailer when blocked by them
- NK wincon
- Non unique

The differences between them are that Laserbearer has worse KPN, and can lower this further in exchange for different types of attacks while the SK has a higher KPN. However this does not matter, as most of the laserbearer's extra abilities are useless.

The SK can kill N1. Your argument that this is just a rehashed SK is also pretty flimsy. The Laserbearer is actually more similar to Arsonist/Werewolf than SK. Both Arsonist and Werewolf trade killing every night for more powerful and potentially multiple kills in one night. Every night that a Laserbearer charges is like an Arsonist dousing someone. They put off killing one or two people to kill more people later. The difference is that the Laserbearer also gains Astral kills instead of framing victims like the Arsonist does. Werewolf can only kill every other night, but does so with Powerful Rampage attacks. The Laserbearer seems to me like a hybrid between all of the NK's. It has some of the versatility of a Serial Killer, and some of the power of Werewolf and Arsonist, but it doesn't take either aspect so far that it becomes a more overpowered version of any of them.


I am afraid you are mildly misinformed, I was working off a different version at the time. With a different charge up chain.

DemonicKraken wrote:Charge of 1 is Basic Atk. Charge of 2 adds Astral. Charge of 3 adds Roleblock. Charge of 4 is a Powerful Atk. Charge of 5 adds Rampage. Charge of 6 is an Unstoppable Atk. No matter the charge, you have Basic Defense.


In this one, you can only ever achieve multiple victims with a charge of 5, which if you haven't killed in the meantime means that town will have 4 nights of people not being killed. It was a much different role, and if you had read the whole thing you should have noticed that I was uttering nonsense if you apply what I said to to current version of the role. I may do another overlook of this role, but I do not feel like doing one right now. Apologies for the misunderstanding we had, I should have quoted the edition of the role I was working with.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby DemonicKraken » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:42 pm

Never really got much response on the "finished" version of this role, so...
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby ManateeDude » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:51 am

I'll review yours if you review mine... JK

This adds a way better sense of balance. Astral attacks are good, but I would suggest changing Powerful Attack to clean kill, because that has way more usefulness. All in all this roles charge system has become much more balanced and means waiting=more power.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:07 am

ManateeDude wrote:I'll review yours if you review mine... JK

This adds a way better sense of balance. Astral attacks are good, but I would suggest changing Powerful Attack to clean kill, because that has way more usefulness. All in all this roles charge system has become much more balanced and means waiting=more power.

Astral Attacking NKs are terrible aka ShadowWalker. They make Lookouts, TPs, and Veterans useless and are quite situational.
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby DemonicKraken » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:21 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
ManateeDude wrote:I'll review yours if you review mine... JK

This adds a way better sense of balance. Astral attacks are good, but I would suggest changing Powerful Attack to clean kill, because that has way more usefulness. All in all this roles charge system has become much more balanced and means waiting=more power.

Astral Attacking NKs are terrible aka ShadowWalker. They make Lookouts, TPs, and Veterans useless and are quite situational.

Hmm...never quite did understand 100% what "Astral" meant, but I see your point.

I might change it to a clean kill...hmm...
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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby ManateeDude » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:39 pm

This role actually is shaping up really well, It gives you the option to hoard charges and wait till endgame or kill night by nght

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Re: Neutral Killing - Laserbearer

Postby timurtheking » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:52 pm

Charge of 1 is Basic Atk. Charge of 2 adds the ability to attack two people. Charge of 3 adds Powerful Atk and "Disintegrated" (clean kill). Charge of 4 adds the ability to attack 3 people.

Charge 4 is not worth it, charge 2 is not needed as u can kill 2 people over 2 nights with 1 charge. Charge 3...powerful attac is only needed to kill a GF or if your in custom/chaos another NK.
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