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Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:08 pm
by Mystoc
this rework has parts of my existing jailor nerfs with some of the ideas removed and some ideas that stayed, the main change from the original rework is jailor can be and evil now but can still also be good (50/50 chance to be evil/good)

jailor can still confirm themselves but now town may not trust them, evils won't trust a jailor either now since it could be town jailor, jailor keeps its power but it confirmability is no longer a weapon it can use for easier wins

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Jailor (Neutral Chaos) this replaces the Jailor town spot in all modes

You are the Jailor of Salem who has tried their best to be virtuous and enforce the law, Mafia has moved into town and the people now fear for their safety. You have vowed to protect the citizens of Salem and to kill all of these evildoers!
--------------------------------------------->>OR<<---------------------------------------------
You are the Jailor of Salem who has become corrupt from power you have made deals with the evildoers of Salem to turn a blind eye to their crimes in return you will receive a cut of their profits and their word they will do you no harm!

Attack: Unstoppable
Defense: (Good Jailor - None /// Evil Jailor - 1 Auto Vest)

Abilities:
Day Ability:
-Pick a target to jail at the start of the next night
-There is a 1 day cooldown on jailing the same target
-Your jailed target is given no extra defense while Jailed

Night Ability: (Execute 3 Charges)
-Choose if you wish to execute your prisoner (Unstoppable Attack)
-If you execute anyone their will is erased (for good and evil jailor)


Passive Ability:
-You and your prisoner may speak to each other during the night
-You will appear as jailor to your detained prisoner when you speak to them

GOOD JAILOR:
-If you are good jailor and execute a town member you will lose the ability to ever execute again

EVIL JAILOR:
-If you are an evil jailor you may execute whomever you wish
-If you are an evil jailor you are the only one who can still see the wills of those you execute
-If you are an evil jailor you have a one time auto vest
-If an evil jailor is hanged a new jailor may be appointed by the rest of town
(more details on this in its own section)

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Attributes:

-Unique Role
-You are told at the start of the game if you are a good jailor or an evil jailor
-Jailor's reasons for executing can be evil reasons now as well as good ones
(the note he leaves when he executes someone)

-If the jailor is killed it will be revealed whether he was an good or an evil jailor!

-Your jailed target is role blocked. This overrides Role block Immunity.
-Jailing or executing does not count as a visit
-if you are witched to target another that is not your prisoner your execute will fail
-If you are roleblocked and choose to execute that night your execute will fail.

-Visiting a jailed target will now work and abilities can be used on a jailed target
-People will no longer be told their target was in jail after visiting them

-A jailed target will have vertical bars across their screen when jailed in addition to being notified that were jailed in chat

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-Any Neutral killing or Neutral Chaos role that is kill capable the night they are jailed may choose if they wish to attack the jailor

-Any roles who wish to try to kill the jailor can select themselves during the night they are jailed, this will indicate they wish to try to kill the jailor (this is unselected by default)

-If the Jailor chooses to execute the prisoner any attack the prisoner chooses to make against the jailor that night will fail and the prisoner will be killed

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-If a dead Medium seances you or your prisoner, that player will listen and talk to both the Medium and the other player at the same time. However, the other player cannot hear the Medium.

-Whoever you have jailed will still be able to hear anyone they can usually hear at night; Vampires and members of the Mafia or Coven will hear their respective evil channels, a Vampire Hunter will still hear the Vampires they listen in to, and a Medium will still be able to hear the dead.

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Appointing a New Jailor:
-The FIRST time an evil jailor is hanged town immediately votes for who they wish to be the next jailor
-If a good jailor is hanged no new jailor is appointed!

-If there is a tie town gets to vote again but only on those who tied each other in votes
-If there is a tie again no new jailor will be appointed/chosen
-The voting time for appointing a new jailor is 30 seconds

-Appointed jailors will have 2 executes only
-Appointed jailors executes do NOT erase wills
-Appointed Jailors will have the defense that their original role did
-Appointed Jailors who are part of an evil faction can see what the faction says/does during the night but can no longer speak in it, unless they choose to jail no one that night
-Appointed Jailors will have their abilities and investigative results changed to that of jailor but NOT their goals
(any role who was appointed jailor keeps their starting Goal!)

-If an evil role is appointed to be jailor with killing potential they can jail someone and choose to kill someone who is not jailed.
-An evil role with killing potential CANNOT execute and kill another person not imprisoned in the same night
(Can't do a jailor execute kill + their killing role kill in the same night it's one or the other)

-If an evil role is appointed jailor with killing ability when they choose to kill anyone they will be given a choice on which death message they wish town to see (Jailor or their killing roles death message)
-With killing roles who can kill more then once in a night it will only say the first target selected was killed by jailor

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Goal:

-Lynch every criminal and evildoer!
----------------->>OR<<-----------------
-Survive to see the Town lose the game!

Investigative Results:
Sheriff:
Your target can be no other than the Jailor!

Investigator:
Your target could be a Spy, Blackmailer, Jailor, or Guardian Angel.

Consigliere:
Your target detains people at night. They must be a Jailor!

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:13 pm
by Blackwolfe99
This reminds me of the King in Throne of Lies, as the King may be Good, Evil, or Neutral.
However, this is too swingy to work in Town of Salem, unless it was it's own gamemode.

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:22 pm
by Mystoc
Blackwolfe99 wrote:This reminds me of the King in Throne of Lies, as the King may be Good, Evil, or Neutral.
However, this is too swingy to work in Town of Salem, unless it was it's own gamemode.


well it's based of my governor role which is based on throne of lies king role

i think neutral would be hard to win for jailor so I didn't add it, also a neutral jailor would just always pick town over evils bad idea

i don't think it to swingy keep in mind an evil jailor doesn't win if just town dies, it wins only if all of town is dead and it's alive to see them dead
(look at the goal section)


while an evil jailor would bad for town, it cant outright act evil or town will kill him and he loses the game

also evils won't trust an evil jailor is evil so they may just kill try to him(hence the auto vest), either type of jailor has to convince its side its on their side but at the same time it has to not piss of the other side, its not has simple has their an evil jailor towns gonna lose more now


evil jailor really has no allies since he isn't strictly siding with one specific type of evil, evils can kill him and town can kill him

i think its balanced

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EDIT: i was thinking if an evil jailor is hanged then all of town could be allowed to vote/appoint a new jailor? this way town has a way to get back a good jailor that's helping them? OFC theirs the risk the appoint another evil jailor but town would be careful in picking a trusted person, theres also the risk they hang a good jailor then get no chance to appoint another jailor so theirs risks

thoughts?


yea i know thats very thrones of lieish

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:37 pm
by ManateeDude
I can actually see this functioning in ranked. Call me crazy but /support

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:44 pm
by Mystoc
ManateeDude wrote:I can actually see this functioning in ranked. Call me crazy but /support


thanks this role is still a WIP but i think it can work too

idea i just had

i was thinking if an evil jailor is hanged then all of town could be allowed to vote/appoint a new jailor? this way town has a way to get back a good jailor that's helping them if they started out with an evil one. OFC theirs the risk they appoint another evil jailor but town would be careful in picking a trusted person, theres also the risk they hang a good jailor then get no chance to appoint another jailor so theirs risks

if the evil jailor was NK/NC they get unlimited executes but keep their same goal and original defense
-if the evil is part of mafia they inherit how many executes the previous jailor when they were hanged had and keep their same goal and original defense

thoughts?

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:48 pm
by ManateeDude
Hmm, it certainly would be an interesting role in like the idea of the town choosing a Town Poker role

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:07 am
by Shilster
Yeah this is literally King from ToL lol

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:41 am
by FreezingFire127
Not bad, I can see an evil Jailor being a huge threat to town. Also RNG

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:09 am
by Mystoc
FreezingFire127 wrote:Not bad, I can see an evil Jailor being a huge threat to town. Also RNG


not really getting a role is RNG for every person in the game, its not RNG because the chances of being good or evil is the same


i have tried to balance the win rate if town gets an evil jailor by allowing them to pick a new but weaker jailor

glad you like the idea of it though

Yeah this is literally King from ToL lol


the idea of being good or evil is like ToL yes, but the rest is completely different, aslo no one knows who jailor is at the start of the game unlike king, theres lots of differences, the idea is jailor is judged on how he acts now, not on when he just chooses to reveal he's jailor

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:02 am
by Blackwolfe99
Mystoc wrote:
FreezingFire127 wrote:Not bad, I can see an evil Jailor being a huge threat to town. Also RNG


not really getting a role is RNG for every person in the game, its not RNG because the chances of being good or evil is the same


i have tried to balance the win rate if town gets an evil jailor by allowing them to pick a new but weaker jailor

glad you like the idea of it though

Yeah this is literally King from ToL lol


the idea of being good or evil is like ToL yes, but the rest is completely different, aslo no one knows who jailor is at the start of the game unlike king, theres lots of differences, the idea is jailor is judged on how he acts now, not on when he just chooses to reveal he's jailor

No, that's exactly how King is found evil in ToL. How he acts determines who's going to trust him.

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:42 am
by Mystoc
No, that's exactly how King is found evil in ToL. How he acts determines who's going to trust him.


i did say the evil or good part is the same, the rest is different the question, is though

is balanced? and if not what changes does it need?

i don't really care how similar how this rework is to king from ToL, the abilities are completely different, just that it can be good or evil its similarity

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:51 am
by Blackwolfe99
Mystoc wrote:
No, that's exactly how King is found evil in ToL. How he acts determines who's going to trust him.


i did say the evil or good part is the same, the rest is different the question, is though

is balanced? and if not what changes does it need?

i don't really care how similar how this rework is to king from ToL, the abilities are completely different, just that it can be good or evil its similarity

It's not balanced, it's RNG and swings the win towards one side or another without any reason other than to take it away from town at least part of the time.
It isn't like Witch or any TG NEs that actually help evils by being supporters. It isn't like Executioner or Jester who forces town to question who their voting.
This completely throws balance out the window.

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:07 am
by Mystoc
It's not balanced, it's RNG and swings the win towards one side or another without any reason other than to take it away from town at least part of the time.
It isn't like Witch or any TG NEs that actually help evils by being supporters. It isn't like Executioner or Jester who forces town to question who their voting.
This completely throws balance out the window.


its even RNG thats key also how everyone gets a role at the start of the game is RNG in and of it self has the role list is different each time, can you really say the role list is RNG?

the idea is though is an evil jailor cant act outright evil or they are gonna get killed by town, so an evil jailor is still fake helping town

evil jailor just wants town dead basically but it also has to live it much harder to win has evil jailor so it needs better abilities

i think the concept can work i just think the problem like you said is its a little to swingy towns to balanced around jailor so i feel the rest of town would need changes for this to be ok, which would be alot work,

if i can think of a better way to balance i will let you guys know

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:07 am
by Mystoc
any more feedback on this besides its like king from throne of lies i know the idea is a bit out there but making it so jailor can be evil solves its confirmability issues, i tried to balance town having an evil jailor by allowing town to elect another jailor if they hang the evil one thoughts?

Re: Jailor Reworked!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:18 pm
by Mystoc
GETTING FEEDBACK ON THIS ROLE IS BECOMING TIRESOME, does no one like jailor and is not clicking it should i rename the title jailor OP nerf now to be more click baity? /s

Re: Jailor FIXED

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:57 pm
by Mystoc
more feedback please thanks, i feel this change would solve a lot of the jailor confirming themselves problem

Re: Jailor FIXED

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:50 am
by Mystoc
its been pretty difficult to get feedback on this idea, I see a lot of people voting in the poll too strong but no reasons/comments why

Re: Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:58 am
by sportakus1
I really do like this idea, but I feel that rather than throne of lies, this game is much more "fast-paced" style and people get killed very quickly rather than throne of lies it can take fast or very slow depending if its simple who is who or not and it can take quite time to get all unseen/cults in that game.

Still, I support this, but the second problem is that evil jailor can basically side with maf or NK and it could go unbalanced.

Re: Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:22 pm
by Mystoc
sportakus1 wrote:I really do like this idea, but I feel that rather than throne of lies, this game is much more "fast-paced" style and people get killed very quickly rather than throne of lies it can take fast or very slow depending if its simple who is who or not and it can take quite time to get all unseen/cults in that game.

Still, I support this, but the second problem is that evil jailor can basically side with maf or NK and it could go unbalanced.


the concept is similar but only an evil jailor can be replaced and only once good jailor cant thats the difference

the pace of the game doesnt really matter when it comes to concepts like this

not really if jailor admits being evil town hangs him, evil jailor claims he is evil late game he could just be saying that to not be killed, can maf or NK really trust hes being truthful, evil jailor goal is LIVE to see town loose its not just to make a evil wins, the evil jailor has no real allies at all they are really just people he doesnt HAVE to kill they arent his real teamates,

evil jailor is a is a strong role who if they reveal who they are has to fake being good,

this way jailor can confrim themselves keeps the core of their idenity but is no longer an auto confirm leader for town

Re: Jailor 2.0 (Reworked Again!)

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 1:50 pm
by StrahmDude
Mystoc wrote:
FreezingFire127 wrote:Not bad, I can see an evil Jailor being a huge threat to town. Also RNG


not really getting a role is RNG for every person in the game, its not RNG because the chances of being good or evil is the same


i have tried to balance the win rate if town gets an evil jailor by allowing them to pick a new but weaker jailor

glad you like the idea of it though

Yeah this is literally King from ToL lol


the idea of being good or evil is like ToL yes, but the rest is completely different, aslo no one knows who jailor is at the start of the game unlike king, theres lots of differences, the idea is jailor is judged on how he acts now, not on when he just chooses to reveal he's jailor

Dude, just because the odds even do not mean the odds don't exit. A 50% chance is STILL a 50% chance no matter how you swing it, and this role would HUGELY effect the game. It is a killing role, they always affect the game.

Re: Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 1:59 pm
by Descender
imo, change it's name but make it appear as jailor, give it a invest result of [invest results], jailor, [role name].
Also make it town and nk to stop oping maf so much.

Re: Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 3:15 pm
by Mystoc
Google wrote:imo, change it's name but make it appear as jailor, give it a invest result of [invest results], jailor, [role name].
Also make it town and nk to stop oping maf so much.


an jailor double doesnt fix jailor being confirmable though

it needs to be either or, never both..

if town jailor is a constant, then it can still confirm itself in games where there isnt an evil jailor

and even in games the where there is both town good jailor can still claim day 1, evil jailor cant day 1 claim cause town jailor would auto exe an good jailor claim since they know they are the real jailor

an jailor faker doesnt fix jailor

it has be only one jailor that can be evil OR good

Re: Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 5:19 pm
by Descender
Mystoc wrote:
Google wrote:imo, change it's name but make it appear as jailor, give it a invest result of [invest results], jailor, [role name].
Also make it town and nk to stop oping maf so much.


an jailor double doesnt fix jailor being confirmable though

it needs to be either or, never both..

if town jailor is a constant, then it can still confirm itself in games where there isnt an evil jailor

and even in games the where there is both town good jailor can still claim day 1, evil jailor cant day 1 claim cause town jailor would auto exe an good jailor claim since they know they are the real jailor

an jailor faker doesnt fix jailor

it has be only one jailor that can be evil OR good
you just made an argument of something i didnt say

Re: Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 9:14 pm
by Mystoc
Google wrote:
Mystoc wrote:
Google wrote:imo, change it's name but make it appear as jailor, give it a invest result of [invest results], jailor, [role name].
Also make it town and nk to stop oping maf so much.


an jailor double doesnt fix jailor being confirmable though

it needs to be either or, never both..

if town jailor is a constant, then it can still confirm itself in games where there isnt an evil jailor

and even in games the where there is both town good jailor can still claim day 1, evil jailor cant day 1 claim cause town jailor would auto exe an good jailor claim since they know they are the real jailor

an jailor faker doesnt fix jailor

it has be only one jailor that can be evil OR good
you just made an argument of something i didnt say


why do you want its name changed if its still jailor?
the idea is that isnt NK it IS Jailor, you made NK wouldnt town still have their jailor slot

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do you want this role to NK and town jailor to still be in game, or are saying only the evil version should be NK.

so you saying when theres an evil jailor there would two NK in game?


explain what u mean then

Re: Jailor (Rework)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:50 pm
by TheRealChickenPatty
Interesting role concept.However,what role slot would it take?
Would it take over jailor?It would make sense,but a 8v4v1 doesn't sound like favorable odds,especially since the main killing power for town is dead.