Jinn (Neutral Killing) (REWORKED)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Please comment on why you feel this way please

Role is too strong!
8
15%
Role is balanced!
20
36%
Role is too weak!
1
2%
==========================================================================================================================
7
13%
Role should be Neutral Killing Alignment!
16
29%
Role should be Neutral Chaos Alignment!
3
5%
 
Total votes : 55

Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:30 am

joefischerxxx wrote:
MafiaMenace wrote:Never.

Jinn is more fitting and doesn't sound bland like phantom.

Phantom is common and everyone knows what it is, the average person doesn't know what a Jinn is. Phantom sounds spooky, Jinn sounds boring.


refer to what i said above joe the name is because its easily distinctive there are more than 10 roles maybe even over 100 with the name phantom if you want a role to be easily referred to you need to give it a unique name

if this role was ever added into the game i have no doubt the name would be changed so there is no reason for it have to a common name now like phantom if both names do fit the role which they do
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby MafiaMenace » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:02 pm

Phantom doesn't sound spooky at all.
As I said, it's bland and boring.

I see a Jinn as a demonic being capable of taking over humans as they see fit.

Which is also the definition.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:31 pm

MafiaMenace wrote:Phantom doesn't sound spooky at all.
As I said, it's bland and boring.

I see a Jinn as a demonic being capable of taking over humans as they see fit.

Which is also the definition.


no i agree it fits Joe's point was most people have know idea what a Jinn is, I'm keeping the name as Jinn dont worry :P
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:44 pm

Maybe make it that All Unique Town roles (Jailor, Mayor, Ret, Vet) are unpossesable, so if you kill them you would keep your body.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:40 pm

On the one hand, you can argue that the name doesn't fit with the Salem Witch Trials theme, considering it's from Arabian and Muslim mythology, which you all seem to be ignoring. The only reason that's okay is because the Devs themselves have shown that they're not sticking to the theme all that much. Vampires, Werewolves, Guardian Angels, they don't strictly fit within the Salem theme but they still fit within a theme, but the Devs added things like Pirates and Medusa, which don't. Shil said Jinn doesn't sound English-y, but what about Medusa, who isn't from English origins? So stop trying to use boring normal names under the excuse that they're more "English-y" or that they fit a theme better, because when you start with "Witch Trials" and turn it into "A game with literal Mafia and Greek mythology" the theme doesn't matter so much.

Also, stop complaining about the trial system and old Disguiser. Unless a programmer tells me that it's physically impossible, all the Devs need to do is put it in bright text when someone uses the Jinn's ability, and who they use it on. That, and once you use the ability, it would look like this: "(Peter)Larry: I'm confirmed Sheriff you knob" wherein Larry is the person who was killed by the Jinn, and Peter is the Jinn who is using Larry's body. Just let them click on Peter's name, and it'll tell the person this. Simple and easy, stop pretending a small problem is big enough to make the role unfeasible.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:57 pm

HereThereEverywhere wrote:On the one hand, you can argue that the name doesn't fit with the Salem Witch Trials theme, considering it's from Arabian and Muslim mythology, which you all seem to be ignoring. The only reason that's okay is because the Devs themselves have shown that they're not sticking to the theme all that much. Vampires, Werewolves, Guardian Angels, they don't strictly fit within the Salem theme but they still fit within a theme, but the Devs added things like Pirates and Medusa, which don't. Shil said Jinn doesn't sound English-y, but what about Medusa, who isn't from English origins? So stop trying to use boring normal names under the excuse that they're more "English-y" or that they fit a theme better, because when you start with "Witch Trials" and turn it into "A game with literal Mafia and Greek mythology" the theme doesn't matter so much.

like i said the name is there to be distinctive and recognizable for now it also happens to fit the lore of the role, theres a good chance the name will get changed if it is added into the game and that's fine

Also, stop complaining about the trial system and old Disguiser. Unless a programmer tells me that it's physically impossible, all the Devs need to do is put it in bright text when someone uses the Jinn's ability, and who they use it on. That, and once you use the ability, it would look like this: "(Peter)Larry: I'm confirmed Sheriff you knob" wherein Larry is the person who was killed by the Jinn, and Peter is the Jinn who is using Larry's body. Just let them click on Peter's name, and it'll tell the person this. Simple and easy, stop pretending a small problem is big enough to make the role unfeasible.

my role already does this, it says when a player dies that the jinn was in their body and has gone into a new one check out the how body hopping work section

Last edited by Mystoc on Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:59 pm

The first part of my comment was defending the name Jinn, although at first it might not've looked like that. The second part is talking specifically about the trial system itself, because some people still complain about it.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:59 pm

HereThereEverywhere wrote:The first part of my comment was defending the name Jinn, although at first it might not've looked like that. The second part is talking specifically about the trial system itself, because some people still complain about it.


ehh throne of has roles that directly let you control what others say and and neutral killer that does body hopping that is undetectable without telling anyone

the problem is throne of lies costs money so trolls who get banned would have to buy a 10 dollar game again , while town of salem is free so BMG is limited in the type of role they can allow into a game , any role that can cause of alot of greifing when used the wrong way on purpose they try to avoid adding into the game. banning these trolls / griefers doesn't work because town of salem is free so BMG osto be careful on what roles they allow into

i believe my role is acceptable in terms in town salem terms though it makes it very clear theres a Jinn in the game and what bodies the Jinn was in and when the Jinn has gone into another body
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:28 pm

It doesn't make trolling okay though, and even if it didn't tell people there was a Jinn, just report the person breaking the rules. The trial system people, if using my suggested change, would know who was really behind the rule breaking. That doesn't make it okay, and frankly it's a weak defense. That requires the troll to actually get the role, and use the ability to randomly waste people's time instead of just wasting people's time normally.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:58 pm

HereThereEverywhere wrote:It doesn't make trolling okay though, and even if it didn't tell people there was a Jinn, just report the person breaking the rules. The trial system people, if using my suggested change, would know who was really behind the rule breaking. That doesn't make it okay, and frankly it's a weak defense. That requires the troll to actually get the role, and use the ability to randomly waste people's time instead of just wasting people's time normally.



i don't think trolling is okay i just think its more likely to happen in a free game then a game you have to pay for that's why i like playing coven mode so much you get much less trolls,

if you can design a role that can be greif proof you should but i get you point that you shouldn't have too, town of salem already has a lot greif able roles like mayor vig and transporter but they are in the game

glad you like the role though!
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:16 pm

clarified a bunch of stuff and fixes some typos and gave passive abilities their own section

please be sure to leave feedback in poll and in the comments thanks!
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby OnlyA » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:03 pm

I like it!

I don't care what the name is, but throwing an Arabian name into a colonial America seems a little odd. (But Medusa is from Greek mythology, so who knows?)

The one thing that I recommend is changing it slightly.
First: On every EVEN night, (the nights you don't kill) you can use the ability of whatever person you took over. You can use appropriate day-activities as well; like jailor or mayor. (It is smart to reveal to try and get someone lynched.)

When you possess a body, you inherit their current last will (but you will probably have to make up investigative results for the missing night) and you recieve their chat log.


STRATEGY:
You are able to take over any body (Mafia and Coven as well.) This creates problems, but for both sides potentially. Jinn cannot see who the other mafia, only their roles. However, she can try to check their chat log to find out. (She can find out code-words they might have used.) Since there is a day period in between them, Jinn will have time to browse the chat log and be prepared for contingincies.

If the Mafia really need to know if Jinn is controlling one of them, they can do a name-rotation: each mafia has to say the name of the mafia beneath them in the role list. However, this is potentially deadly: they can only do this once, so if they mess up, the Jinn can see all members.

Even if they do catch the Jinn on the correct night, there isn't much they can do. It isn't like they are going to reveal to the town that a Jinn has infiltrated them; and they can't target themselves. The only way is to get one death note off. However, the town may decide the mafia is a bigger threat. Townies who try to push the issue look like mafia.

(And mafia= Coven, I don't see any changes)

And, welp. I probably made this OP.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:13 am

OnlyA wrote:I like it!

I don't care what the name is, but throwing an Arabian name into a colonial America seems a little odd. (But Medusa is from Greek mythology, so who knows?)

the name doesnt matter its named Jinn so its easy to refer and also fits the lore BMG can change the name if they want if they choose to add it, having the name be called ghost or spectre is just bad everyone uses those names it would very hard to refer to the role without referring to other roles people have ade basically the name is placeholder

The one thing that I recommend is changing it slightly.
First: On every EVEN night, (the nights you don't kill) you can use the ability of whatever person you took over. You can use appropriate day-activities as well; like jailor or mayor. (It is smart to reveal to try and get someone lynched.)s

and i did consider thos as a possibility but taking over a killing role would be OP, even roles that dont offers a lot utility like sheriff finding mafia ,vig shooting mafia or town escort rbing someone meduim having getting info from the dead , yea being ret would be useless

but some of these roles are so strong like mayor late game with 3 votes it would promote the jinn to stay in that body and not kill which is something i don't want to happen since staying in body long term drastically increases the chances that person will get falsely reported for gametrowing which is baaaaad


i think what this role has vrs sk is a powerful attack and it is hard pin down since it hops bodies and partial sheriff immunity but only has .5 kills a night

the only thing sk has over this roles is its kills per night which is huge thing having of double the killing power is very strong but even but buffing my role anymore would push the role over sk power i think so i don't want to do it SK is the baseline of NK and new roles should be even with it

while it sounds awesome to use the bodies roles abilities you are thematically i think balance wise its unfair


When you possess a body, you inherit their current last will (but you will probably have to make up investigative results for the missing night) and you recieve their chat log.

that's the idea you don't really need their whp;e chat log since you see what they said in all chat in ypur own chat log and such you only need to there whisper chat log adding the whole thing isn't needed and would make it harder to find the whispers incase allies shared a codeword


STRATEGY:
You are able to take over any body (Mafia and Coven as well.) This creates problems, but for both sides potentially. Jinn cannot see who the other mafia, only their roles. However, she can try to check their chat log to find out. (She can find out code-words they might have used.) Since there is a day period in between them, Jinn will have time to browse the chat log and be prepared for contingincies.

allowing jinn to see mafia chat makes it spy all over again and it was removed from spy cause it stops mafia from plotting, jinn would do this very thing since has soon mafia knows a jinn is in the game they have to stop using their chat like they are supposed to or risk giving away their identities, it doesn't matter jinn doesn't have a team like spy he can still expose them out spite if hes gonna die or to get the town off his back in a death note

If the Mafia really need to know if Jinn is controlling one of them, they can do a name-rotation: each mafia has to say the name of the mafia beneath them in the role list. However, this is potentially deadly: they can only do this once, so if they mess up, the Jinn can see all members.

yep that works for mafia but i still don't want him to see mafia/coven chat

Even if they do catch the Jinn on the correct night, there isn't much they can do. It isn't like they are going to reveal to the town that a Jinn has infiltrated them; and they can't target themselves. The only way is to get one death note off. However, the town may decide the mafia is a bigger threat. Townies who try to push the issue look like mafia.

the death note strat wouldn't work he would be in a new body the next night so it would be old info most times

this is true to certain extent however can just fake sheriff/lo/tracker and say they found the jinn that way sure it might end up getting person hanged or be obv they did this but they might get away with it its better than being unable to kill the jinn at all trading one for one is not ideal but is incapable so its a role that mafia cannot kill alone they need nk to be hanged they cant it during the night, it's definitely a sacrifice mafia would be willing to make and would get jinn hanged


(And mafia= Coven, I don't see any changes)

And, welp. I probably made this OP.

you did

giving the jinn a roles abilities on even days and the ability to see faction chat and even speak in it is something which stops them from strategizing and is the exact reason spy was nerfed, it makes mafia chat not tool but a thing you cant really use because you know you may give away info so you have to fake with it


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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby TurkeyGod » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:32 am

So it's a Neutral Killing version of the old Disguiser. I like it.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:29 pm

TurkeyGod wrote:So it's a Neutral Killing version of the old Disguiser. I like it.


it isn't quite the same mechanic has disguiser, duisguier tries to convince town it died when really it took another identity and is still alive ,

jinn does no such thing , jinn takes a new body but everyone knows he did so he does not try convince town he died, this a huge distinction here town knows the person was possessed and that jinn as left their body and gone into a new one right away, this will not mess with the reporting system that way
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Seththeking » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:27 pm

I like Phantom better mainly because it is more realistic.

There were indeed Spirits in the 1600’s but not Jinns.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby MafiaMenace » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:30 pm

seth why the bump holy shit

Phantom is a bland name.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby ManateeDude » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:47 pm

MafiaMenace wrote:seth why the bump holy shit

Phantom is a bland name.


Agreed on both counts, now onto the role, because you not?

I like how this fixes the problem a body hopping role would have, all in all it may be a bit OP, because of its sheer ability. All in all I like this role as NK,
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby BrendonJunior » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:41 pm

While I am perfectly fine with a role that can move bodies, the problem with this role is its KP is flat out too small. Like the arsonist (both roles can use deception), an invest sees you and you are playing a hard defensive battle with little KP. It is even worse asnthe jin since ANY ti that checks you is gonna bust you in an instant. This means an invest/sheriff/consig can (and probably will) get them hanged near everytime. Then you might end up screwed after a doc heals your target or target was jailed. So being so vulnerable to being found and hung by lynch happy townies, you can't even kill the threats in time. Again, you have the lowest KP and detection immunity, I just cant see the ability to move bodies worth all the down falls. In short, the jin might be good, but just can't kill fast enough and it too naked for too long IMHO.

Also, Id scrap the loosing basic defense. It honestly should never happen and is a feature that makes Him even more vulnerable (now you can just he random shot to death.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:46 pm

it has .5 kills per night powerful attack and basically sheriff immunity and it can take susp off itself by going into another body every other night, i would say when compared to sk its pretty balanced,


i don't want people to stay in a body and refuse to kill that's why it loses basic defense and its sheriff immunity if it stays in a body
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby timurtheking » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:03 am

This is lik sh99ers parasite right?

When it controls the current person, the old body dies.
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:51 am

timurtheking wrote:This is lik sh99ers parasite right?

When it controls the current person, the old body dies.


no viewtopic.php?f=27&t=58328&hilit=parasite

it doesn't kill to take over bodies it just controls, my role has to kill person to go into their old body also once it goes into a new the old body dies so people know when you've body hopped

parasite also just dies when a the other dies, my role only has one body and a basic defense and only dies when its acutal body dies, my role kills parasite doesn't kill while its controlling the person they are still alive

also goal is completely different and his version is OP because its can do it every night and it messes with the reporting system, his role is like a plaguebearer witch who controls what their victim says and votes

mine wants to just kill everyone and although it takes their identity its revealed very fast that they were the Jinn, parasite does not do this
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby timurtheking » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:20 am

Mystoc wrote:
timurtheking wrote:This is lik sh99ers parasite right?

When it controls the current person, the old body dies.


no viewtopic.php?f=27&t=58328&hilit=parasite

it doesn't kill to take over bodies it just controls, my role has to kill person to go into their old body also once it goes into a new the old body dies so people know when you've body hopped

parasite also just dies when a the other dies, my role only has one body and a basic defense and only dies when its acutal body dies, my role kills parasite doesn't kill while its controlling the person they are still alive

also goal is completely different and his version is OP because its can do it every night and it messes with the reporting system, his role is like a plaguebearer witch who controls what their victim says and votes

mine wants to just kill everyone and although it takes their identity its revealed very fast that they were the Jinn, parasite does not do this

So a disguiser sk?

Does the old body show up as Jinn or the person u killed role


Also this wuld be hard to control with the trial system as it mass disguises every kill
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:11 pm

So a disguiser sk?

Does the old body show up as Jinn or the person u killed role


Also this would be hard to control with the trial system as it mass disguises every kill


read the how body hopping works section it has its own spoiler i explain it perfectly and why it doesnt mess with the reporting systeam
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Re: Jinn (Neutral Killing)

Postby timurtheking » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:44 am

Hm ok still a meh Nk

0.5 kpn
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