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Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:37 pm
by Mystoc
Note things in Blue likely to change and am unsure about!

Note things in Red are the most important things people should know about the role!

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Heretic (Neutral Killing)

You are an fanatic who sacrifices your victims in the name of your dark god

Attack: Unstoppable (Delayed & Indirect)
Defense: Basic

Abilities:
Spoiler: -Every ODD night choose a victim as tribute to be sacrificed the following night to your god
-Whoever the chosen tribute most recently visited will also draw your god's attention making them become a tribute as well
(person targeted and who the target visits are both offered as tribute to be sacrificed and killed the next night )


(if the original tribute most recently visited the Heretic they will be dealt and unstoppable attack right away and their last will will be destroyed and can no longer be resurrected or speak in dead chat)

Passive Ability: Know if/who your tribute visits


Attributes:
Spoiler: -Unique
-Bite Immune

-Roleblock Immune (Explanation for why below)
-Only attacks every other night so roleblocking this role is too big of a counter and since it gives notifications to its victims it would apparent if you were roleblocked that you were Heretic since no one was offered as a sacrifice the night before. forcing the Heretic to target escort/consort instead also doesn't work since the other victim of the sacrifice is who was visited, since you cant make yourself a victim there is no good solution to this problem besides making this role roleblock immune.

-If jailor jails this role on an odd night and does not execute them they will be offered as tribute

=========================================================

-People who are offered as a tribute to the Heretic's god will be notified at the end of the night they have been offered as a tribute and will die the following night unless another player offers to take their place as tribute


-Victims who are being offered a tribute may NOT vote the next day
(if another offers to take their place as a tribute then the next day the person can then vote again)

(they will not count has part of voting majority either) (this role was to slow late game with its delayed killing it doesn't kill fast enough so the delayed killing still happens but vote is taken away right away as if the person died)

-The night after a victim(s) is offered as a tribute , another may visit one of the tribute's house to offer themselves as tribute instead (this will save the person about to die and kill the other person instead)

-The night after victim(s) are offered as a tribute they will be attacked with an astral unstoppable attack


Role Interactions:
Spoiler: -With roles that can visit two people (like Transporter) only the first target picked will be the additional victim offered as tribute

-Only the person the heretic directly chooses to offer as tribute can be guarded/watched not the other person the tribute visits

-TP can protect the original person you choose (but not who the person visits)
-LO/Tracker can see you visit on the first person, they won't see you visiting the second person (Because you didn't visit them)
-BG/Crusader/Trapper can kill you if they are guarding the original tribute you but the unstoppable attack will still happen after you die
-The doctor is useless vrs you since he has no offensive capabilities

-Only roles who can actually visit the target may offer to take a sacrificed person's place
(I may change this so everyone can offer so less useful roles like medium or ret who has rezed can save more useful roles)

-Roles will not do their roles on visit but instead the action of offering themselves as tribute in the place of the victim -The offering to be tribute in place of the person becomes the new action for that night when visiting a tribute)

-If for some reason multiple people do offer to take the place of a victim as tribute those who offered to be tribute will all die (this would only ever happen from miscommunication like multiple people thinking they are the ones who will save the jailor or an person doesn't tell anyone he was offered as tribute and multiple people happen to visit him the next night)




In Game Example of Mechanics:

Spoiler: Night 1:
-Martha the escort is offered as tribute by the Heretic
-John the Medium was visited by Martha the Escort so he too is also chosen as an tribute
-Both John and Martha receive notifications telling them they were offered as tribute at the end of the next night


Day 1:

-Martha and John are still both alive
-Martha and John tell town they will be offered as tribute and be killed the next night and ask to be saved
-Neither Martha or John can vote today (nor do they count as part of the voting majority)

Night 2
-Steve the Lookout decides to save Martha the Escort he visits her house and offers to die in her place as tribute to the heretic's god (Steve is killed instead Martha is saved)
-No one offers to replace John the Medium as tribute he is sacrificed to heretics god and dies that night

Day 2
-Martha the escort can now vote again since she is no longer about to be sacrificed as tribute!





Goal:

Spoiler: Kill everyone who would oppose you.


Investigative Results:
On Odd Nights:
Spoiler: Sheriff: Your target is an Heretic!

On Even Nights:
[spoiler]Sheriff: [color=#4000BF]Your target is not Suspicious!


Investigator: Your target must be the Lookout, Forger, Amnesiac, Coven Leader or Heretic!
(realistically this is a placeholder result if ever added it will be added in a expansion with many other roles so invest results will be reworked then)

Consigliere: Your target worships a dark god, they must be a Heretic!

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:25 pm
by Seththeking
I’m still a little confused can you give an example with like:

Bob the Lookout
Charlie the Heretic
Sarah the Disguiser

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:34 pm
by Mystoc
Seththeking wrote:I’m still a little confused can you give an example with like:

Bob the Lookout
Charlie the Heretic
Sarah the Disguiser


you offer bob the lookout as a sacrifice he visits sarah the Disguiser they are both going to be sacrificed and killed next night

of course if bob does not visit anyone he is the only one who gets sacrificed

any who want though can offer to take their place and die instead of them by visiting them the next night

this role can only do its ability every odd night

so the role has .5 kills to 1 kill a night

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:45 pm
by Seththeking
Mystoc wrote:
Seththeking wrote:I’m still a little confused can you give an example with like:

Bob the Lookout
Charlie the Heretic
Sarah the Disguiser


you offer bob the lookout as a sacrifice he visits sarah the Disguiser they are both going to be sacrificed and killed next night

of course if bob does not visit anyone he is the only one who gets sacrificed

any who want though can offer to take their place and die instead of them by visiting them the next night

this role can only do its ability every odd night

so the role has .5 kills to 1 kill a night



Dam this is really good /Support, Even Though it is Similar to SK

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:00 pm
by Mystoc
Seththeking wrote:
Mystoc wrote:
Seththeking wrote:I’m still a little confused can you give an example with like:

Bob the Lookout
Charlie the Heretic
Sarah the Disguiser


you offer bob the lookout as a sacrifice he visits sarah the Disguiser they are both going to be sacrificed and killed next night

of course if bob does not visit anyone he is the only one who gets sacrificed

any who want though can offer to take their place and die instead of them by visiting them the next night

this role can only do its ability every odd night

so the role has .5 kills to 1 kill a night



Dam this is really good /Support, Even Though it is Similar to SK


aren't all new NK roles though sk is base of every NK idea

strengths

it has higher attack basic vrs unstoppable
-roleblock immune (very specific reason why read above)
-less weak to tp and LO since half his kills don't visit the other person
-sheriff immunity (this up for debate this role kills very slow so i feel this is fair)

weaknesses

-less direct ability to attack others
-uncertain kills per night .5-1
-others can offer to die in a target's place
-delayed killing means targets can vote and use abilities an extra day
-late game you can be countered by everyone refusing to visit guaranteeing .5 kills

now that i list all weaknesses i may try to buff this role a bit it feels a little too weak

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 am
by Shilster
Jailor is a roleblocking role, so...

And, this can sacrifice on n1, correct?

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 am
by Mystoc
Shilster wrote:Jailor is a roleblocking role, so...

And, this can sacrifice on n1, correct?


not true or vet would be able to alert in jail

and escort would be able to roleblock people from jail

those roles are both roleblock immune

if jailor does roleblock its a roleblock that surpasses roleblock immunity

my role would be no exception to this rule with jailor jailing roleblock immune roles

EDIT: offering a person FOR sacrifice happens n1, the sacrifice itself doesn't happen till end of n2

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:59 am
by Mystoc
-Gave this role a buff because if you ran the numbers it was to weak and slow late game


-Victims who are being offered a sacrifice may not vote the next day
(if another offers to take their place as sacrifice at the next night the person can then vote again)
(they will not count has part of voting majority either) (this role was to slow late game with its delayed killing it doesn't kill fast enough so they delayed killing still happens but vote is taken away right away like the person died)

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:33 pm
by Seththeking
Mystoc wrote:-Gave this role a buff because if you ran the numbers it was to weak and slow late game


-Victims who are being offered a sacrifice may not vote the next day
(if another offers to take their place as sacrifice at the next night the person can then vote again)
(they will not count has part of voting majority either) (this role was to slow late game with its delayed killing it doesn't kill fast enough so they delayed killing still happens but vote is taken away right away like the person died)


Oooooooooo Vote Block :3

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:31 pm
by Mystoc
Seththeking wrote:
Mystoc wrote:-Gave this role a buff because if you ran the numbers it was to weak and slow late game


-Victims who are being offered a sacrifice may not vote the next day
(if another offers to take their place as sacrifice at the next night the person can then vote again)
(they will not count has part of voting majority either) (this role was to slow late game with its delayed killing it doesn't kill fast enough so they delayed killing still happens but vote is taken away right away like the person died)


Oooooooooo Vote Block :3


they woulda died from any other NK so it's simulating like they are dead but they aren't really dead is the idea, otherwise this role would be to slow

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:01 pm
by Mystoc
clarified some keywords to make role clearer more feedback is needed still

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:54 pm
by Purple998
This role is so perfect that there is no feedback to give.

/Support

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:30 pm
by Mystoc
telling me you like the role is useful feedback though cause it lets me know others like it too

no feedback leaves me wondering if no one likes it or everyone likes being clueless is not helpful

i do notice people usually only comment if they see something wrong with a role but role makers knowing others like the role is still very useful feedback

glad you like the role!

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:46 pm
by Barfer789
First off, /support.

Secondly, these blue messages are what you're unsure of, so I'm going to put in my two cents here.


-Victims who are being offered a tribute may not vote the next day


Maybe they should be blackmailed or their mouth will be "dismembered" (A form of blackmailing) so they cannot speak/send whispers the next day. They will be able to receive whispers though. (Probably too OP tbh?)

-Only roles who can actually visit the target may offer to to take a sacrificed person's place


This is good. I like it!

(I also agree with it being NS)

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:59 pm
by Mystoc
the i don't like blackmailing them because it doesn't let them tell others they need to be saved

the lore behind them being unable to vote is sorta like they saw a glimpse of the their fate of the dark god about to devour them ,they are so terrified the cant form coherent enough sentences to vote (yea cant really think of anything better lore wise )

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:59 pm
by Grunge69
I think it's too complicated :s

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:43 am
by BroForceBoss
its cool love it

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:27 am
by Mystoc
BroForceBoss wrote:its cool love it


glad you love it! any improvements you can think of to make it even better?

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:24 am
by Mystoc
more feedback please thanks

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:31 am
by timurtheking
Not original as its technically a better sk but i like it. What i think should be removed is if target visits u they cannot talk in dead chat...that is too big of a downside for the killed guy and means more ded people leave the game which is already a problem

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:49 pm
by Mystoc
Not original as its technically a better sk but i like it.



not really better sk it has .5-1 kpn depending on if they visit

people can also choose to die instead of the first people so you cant control who dies if town wants to save the person


What i think should be removed is if target visits u they cannot talk in dead chat...that is too big of a downside for the killed guy and means more ded people leave the game which is already a problem



i mean this is only gonna happen if you both visit each other, if it wasn't like this a meduim would instantly get you hanged

a role mechanic of the role shouldn't get you killed i will remove the cant talk in dead chat part but keeping the cant be ressurected

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:43 pm
by timurtheking
Mystoc wrote:
Not original as its technically a better sk but i like it.



not really better sk it has .5-1 kpn depending on if they visit

people can also choose to die instead of the first people so you cant control who dies if town wants to save the person


What i think should be removed is if target visits u they cannot talk in dead chat...that is too big of a downside for the killed guy and means more ded people leave the game which is already a problem



i mean this is only gonna happen if you both visit each other, if it wasn't like this a meduim would instantly get you hanged

a role mechanic of the role shouldn't get you killed i will remove the cant talk in dead chat part but keeping the cant be ressurected

Thats what i meant, dont let ret resurect em but let them speak to medium and ded chat

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:43 am
by KingArmaan
The role looks like a Werewolf/Hex Master rework.

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:13 pm
by Mystoc
KingArmaan wrote:The role looks like a Werewolf/Hex Master rework.



dont see how you see that (late response yes)

its inverse of WW - who targets vists (not who visits the target)

hexmaster - has no mechanic where another can take their place to die



also more feedback please from others

Re: Heretic (Neutral Killing)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:11 pm
by Zurn0
This is an interesting role and I really like it! It would just be confusing/hard for the game developers to implement a system like this.
/support