Huge List of Changes

Old Role Ideas

Huge List of Changes

Postby DragonClaw66 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:40 pm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a huge list of changes I thought of. :I
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Full Moon Change: Full Moon occurs on odd-numbered nights. This buffs the Werewolf and the Juggernaut, both which have rather low win rates.

- Crusader Change: Coven Evil, Mafia Killing, Neutral Chaos, Neutral Killing, Town Killing, Mafia Support, Mafia Deception, Town Support, Town Investigative, Town Protective. RNG is bad for the game.

- Bodyguard and Trapper Change: The Bodyguard and Trapper will counterattack in a predetermined order: Coven Evil, Mafia Killing, Neutral Chaos, Neutral Killing, Town Killing. RNG is bad for the game.

- Death Note Change: Death notes are removed from all roles except for the Serial Killer and the Jailor. The Serial Killer is the only Neutral Killing that doesn't bypass Basic defense. This allows the Serial Killer to communicate immune players through the death note (mainly to out the Godfather and sometimes other Neutral Killings). The Mafia shouldn't have them because it would only out Neutral Killings (who have a low win rate) and Neutral Evils (who can be an ally to the Mafia).

- Arsonist Change: The Arsonist is told the name of the player that they douse at the end of the night. This is to lessen the effect of the Transporter and Witch/Coven Leader on the Arsonist. The Arsonist is also immune to dousing themselves.

- Sheriff Buff: The Sheriff can now detect Vampires. The Sheriff can now detect Pestilence, Horseman of the Apocalypse. They will still be obliterated by Pestilence.

- Jailor Nerf: The jailed target can no longer see the Jailor's execution decision.

- Retributionist Overhaul: The Retributionist can only revive non-unique targets. The revived player cannot whisper or be whispered to. Retributionists will also be given this message when trying to revive a Disguiser disguised as a Town member: "Your target is a Disguiser!"

- Disguiser Buff: Disguises last infinitely.

- Whisper Nerf: Players can no longer whisper during the night or during death announcements. They may only whisper when the discussion phase starts to the end of the voting phase. This is to reduce the confirmability of Vigilantes that shoot and announce the killed target, Retributionists that revive and whisper to the revived target, etc.

- Medium Buff: The Medium can click on the name of a dead Townie while alive. At the end of the night, they will have access to the chat log of that player. If the target was a Disguiser, the ability will fail.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 29 times in total.
User avatar
DragonClaw66
Summer 2019 Winner
Summer 2019 Winner
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:46 am
Location: United States of America

Re: Huge List of Changes

Postby Seththeking » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:49 pm

1: /Support Seems Fine To Me
2: /Support Witch does go with Consig
3: /Nosupport Exe is fine as it is
4: /Nosupport Maybe Change the list a bit because It would just be a Buffed BG
5: /Nosupport theses nothing wrong with the Notes, Mafia needs it to call out Immunes/Roles If Necessary
6: /Support Framer is arguably the worst Mafia Role
7: /Nosupport Vampire Hunter is Fine as it is
8: /Halfsupport Psychic is arguably the best TI Role And it’s mainly because of its RNG
9: /Nosupport Spy doesn’t need no more changes, Let’s not make spy worst then Medium now or ima be mad ;(
10: /Support WW is very hard to win as I agree, but as a pro I mostly pull it off
11: The Second Part Yes the, First Part No, Because NK’s shouldn’t be like witches/Consigs
12: /Support Seems Very Helpful
13: /Support Also Seems Helpful
14: /Support This would be a Nice Sheriff Buff Sure
15: /Support this is also a Nice Sheriff Buff as well
16: /Support This should have already been implemented in the game anyways
17: /Nosupport What If the Dead Player is a Doctor And Healed Someone, Janitor should be able to claim they were that doctor that healed them
18: /Support Seems reasonable
19: /Nosupport Jailor’s Fine As it is
20: /Support This seems like a good med Idea, but make this a Buff not a nerf, just add it on to its Ability already
21: Yes to the Second, no to the first, I feel Jailor should be able to be revived honestly, I used to think that it shouldn’t but remembering back on the games I lost as Jailor because I died like Night 1 And Town was Idiotic just made me have a rampage lol
Image
User avatar
Seththeking
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:03 pm

Re: Huge List of Changes

Postby Lukeizanamie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:04 pm

I often find SethTheking annoying and his roles bad... but some his remarks are retty good

My opinion
Green : I agree, red I disagree.
1: I have no opinion on this, This allow the WW to attacker sooner and he may change the game way sooner then expected. And it gives the Juggernaught and easier time to kill, since he must wait until the 3rn night to gain his basic defense ansd the 2nd to kill. I am not certain this would affect the Juggernaug, but it will have impact on all games with a werewolf.
2: I agree With him, but it is not exactly easy to fake claim invest, particulary as a Witch, this is a fine idea, but its just to not aut-lynch the witch when she's caught.
3: I do agree with him, executioner is fine as it is. I see no reason to be penalized for hanging their target.
4: Agree with him, Crusader must stay as it is, as is reason to exist if to prevent people form visiting a target. And the trap also does the same function, you exist to prevent someone from visits, and actually for the trapper its not needed, since the trap identified the roles of all visitors, but only trigger from an attack.
5: I Disagree with the idea, as they can be used as way for the killers to communicate with each others without revealing their roles.
6: it is true that the Framer is the worst role ever, but there is little we can do about it, except if their buff where to became more permanent. I do agree, it could use a buff
7: Vampire hunter will not be touched, but it exist and hard-counter the game of vampires who have no way to kill him.
8: Disagree, but I think Seth's idea that psychic is the best being false, it is not confirmable and it is easily fakable, as exe, say you are psychic, put your target in a list of 3 names and 2 of them think they are both good, they'Ll turn on your target. on new moon you have 33% chance to get an evil, on full moon, its 50% chance to find innocent, but innocent may not be totally inno as they can be a survivor betraying the town or a guardian angel charged with an evil target.
9: I certain agree, the Spy is a hard-counter to all type of mafia visits, May they be hyponist, consort, consig, disg, but its not always superusefull. At the very the hyponist with its ability to fake transporter can get away...
10: If WW need a buff, beucase its hard to win as nk, then all nk neef a buff. let,s be fair, the NK does not win of skill, he often wins when a losing town decided to take the mafia down with them, as such, the nk tries to keep an eqaulity between the mafia and the town, in order to get into a deadlock,
11: I feel like this is just way to get away with the fact that an escort died to ww when she visited you. if the Serial Killer is not able, I see no reason for the ww to get away.
12: I do not have opinion on this because the arso is the weakest NK
13: do not support, the Hex Master has team to coordinate his actions and its the role or a transporter to disrupt the action of the coven
14: I Disagree, vampires are not suspicious, they are not killers.
15: If a a Sheriff is healed by a doctor or saved by a guardian Angel, they could used they new discovery to lynch Pestillence. but we should not get to that point to defeat pestillence.
16: I disagree, this seem useless.
17: No reason to remove it. especially if a Janitor want to fake medium after being found by an invest.
18: Disagree, the BG is fine as it is.
19: Disagree, the punishment for executing a town member to lose executions, its fine already.
20: No, this is a bad idea. Medium is not TI
21: just like mayor, but then,. what about confirmed veterans ?
Lukeizanamie
Escort
Escort
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:26 pm

Re: Huge List of Changes

Postby Shilster » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:55 pm

2. Mayor is missing.
18. BG gets dealt a Powerful attack.


20. Autoconfirms Disg, which is bad
-




It matters not who you are, Death awaits you.

-
User avatar
Shilster
Werewolf
Werewolf
 
Posts: 3484
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: (GMT+7)

Re: Huge List of Changes

Postby DragonClaw66 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:00 pm

Responses in bold.

Spoiler:
Seththeking wrote:1: /Support Seems Fine To Me
-
2: /Support Witch does go with Consig
-
3: /Nosupport Exe is fine as it is
You know what, I actually don’t mind if the Executioner remains as is. I was going to say that Town should be able to kill it if it already one, but then it would become even less of a Neutral Evil. I’ll be removing this.
4: /Nosupport Maybe Change the list a bit because It would just be a Buffed BG
The Crusader is far from a Bodyguard. They only have a powerful attack, meaning they cannot kill the majority of the roles that visit that target except for Town. Having this order just means that it will attack Town as a last resort. Currently, the role has RNG, which is horrible.
5: /Nosupport theses nothing wrong with the Notes, Mafia needs it to call out Immunes/Roles If Necessary
The only immune roles that the Mafia will ever encounter (in Ranked) are Neutral Killings, Witch (sorta), and Executioner. There is little reason to out the Witch (they can side with the Mafia). There is little reason to out the Executioner (they can side with the Mafia). Neutral Killings are left. They already have a low win rate. The Mafia should have to come out in public and reveal the Neutral Killing if they want to out them.
6: /Support Framer is arguably the worst Mafia Role
-
7: /Nosupport Vampire Hunter is Fine as it is
The Vampire Hunter is not only a hardcounter but it can’t even be killed by the Vampires. Having one in game pretty much confirms that Vampires will not be winning.
8: /Halfsupport Psychic is arguably the best TI Role And it’s mainly because of its RNG
Any Town Investigative role should have to do work to get information. I’m talking about the Psychic AND the Spy.
9: /Nosupport Spy doesn’t need no more changes, Let’s not make spy worst then Medium now or ima be mad ;(
Spy is overpowered. It counters Framer, Forger, Hypnotist, Consort, immune Neutral Killings, jailed/roleblocked Mafia Killings, Potion Master heals and investigations, Hex Master hexing (framing), etc. It Medium would be powerful if people didn’t leave.
10: /Support WW is very hard to win as I agree, but as a pro I mostly pull it off
-
11: The Second Part Yes the, First Part No, Because NK’s shouldn’t be like witches/Consigs
I don’t really see why people think it’s bad for Neutral Killings to have a non-killing ability. The Werewolf doesn’t do anything when waiting and I feel like it’s a wasted night. People want to be able to do something on odd-nights (even-nights if Full Moons are moved to odds).
12: /Support Seems Very Helpful
-
13: /Support Also Seems Helpful
-
14: /Support This would be a Nice Sheriff Buff Sure
-
15: /Support this is also a Nice Sheriff Buff as well
-
16: /Support This should have already been implemented in the game anyways
-
17: /Nosupport What If the Dead Player is a Doctor And Healed Someone, Janitor should be able to claim they were that doctor that healed them
The Janitor is still informed of the cleaned player’s role. They don’t need the will to pull off a good claim. It’s still a powerful role because it hides information from the Town. This also makes the Forger much more useful.
18: /Support Seems reasonable
-
19: /Nosupport Jailor’s Fine As it is
The Jailor is too powerful. It completely outshines every other role. It needs a nerf.
20: /Support This seems like a good med Idea, but make this a Buff not a nerf, just add it on to its Ability already
Thank you for pointing that out. That was an error.
21: Yes to the Second, no to the first, I feel Jailor should be able to be revived honestly, I used to think that it shouldn’t but remembering back on the games I lost as Jailor because I died like Night 1 And Town was Idiotic just made me have a rampage lol
The Retributionist is already powerful because it confirms Mediums, confirms itself, confirms the revived player, and lets living players whisper to the revived one.


Lukeizanamie wrote:I often find SethTheking annoying and his roles bad... but some his remarks are retty good
My opinion
Green : I agree, red I disagree.
1: I have no opinion on this, This allow the WW to attacker sooner and he may change the game way sooner then expected. And it gives the Juggernaught and easier time to kill, since he must wait until the 3rn night to gain his basic defense ansd the 2nd to kill. I am not certain this would affect the Juggernaug, but it will have impact on all games with a werewolf.
I hadn’t really thought about how the Juggernaut would be affected. I believe that it is slightly underpowered, though, so maybe making the Full Moon appear a night sooner is what it needs.
2: I agree With him, but it is not exactly easy to fake claim invest, particulary as a Witch, this is a fine idea, but its just to not aut-lynch the witch when she's caught.
-
3: I do agree with him, executioner is fine as it is. I see no reason to be penalized for hanging their target.
I will be removing the suggestion, but I would like to point out that it’s not penalizing the Executioner because they already won.
4: Agree with him, Crusader must stay as it is, as is reason to exist if to prevent people form visiting a target. And the trap also does the same function, you exist to prevent someone from visits, and actually for the trapper its not needed, since the trap identified the roles of all visitors, but only trigger from an attack.
The Crusader’s reason to exist is to kill non-immune evils. It can also prevent attacks from immune evils. This reasoning doesn’t even agree with what my suggestion is. The order attacking order is only made determined instead of by chance.
5: I Disagree with the idea, as they can be used as way for the killers to communicate with each others without revealing their roles.
I have no idea what you mean when you say killers can communicate with each other using death notes. They’re against each other, they’re not going to communicate. If anything, they’ll out each other with the death notes. One of these killers is most likely to be a Neutral Killing, which shouldn’t be killed because the Mafia was hiding behind the anonymity of the death note.
6: it is true that the Framer is the worst role ever, but there is little we can do about it, except if their buff where to became more permanent. I do agree, it could use a buff
There’s a lot that can be done with the Framer. Make it so that it can trick all Investigatives, make it so that it can trick the Town in general (not just Investigative roles), etc.
7: Vampire hunter will not be touched, but it exist and hard-counter the game of vampires who have no way to kill him.
I’m not saying remove it (that’ll never happen), but some change needs to happen.
8: Disagree, but I think Seth's idea that psychic is the best being false, it is not confirmable and it is easily fakable, as exe, say you are psychic, put your target in a list of 3 names and 2 of them think they are both good, they'Ll turn on your target. on new moon you have 33% chance to get an evil, on full moon, its 50% chance to find innocent, but innocent may not be totally inno as they can be a survivor betraying the town or a guardian angel charged with an evil target.
I’m not complaining about the fact that Psychic is bad because it is not confirmable and easy to claim, I’m arguing that it’s a bad role because of it’s RNG and the fact that it doesn’t work to get the information.
9: I certain agree, the Spy is a hard-counter to all type of mafia visits, May they be hyponist, consort, consig, disg, but its not always superusefull. At the very the hyponist with its ability to fake transporter can get away…
-
10: If WW need a buff, beucase its hard to win as nk, then all nk neef a buff. let,s be fair, the NK does not win of skill, he often wins when a losing town decided to take the mafia down with them, as such, the nk tries to keep an eqaulity between the mafia and the town, in order to get into a deadlock,
I actually think that all Neutral Killings do need a buff (excluding the Serial Killer), but the Werewolf needs it the most. It’s the weakest one.
11: I feel like this is just way to get away with the fact that an escort died to ww when she visited you. if the Serial Killer is not able, I see no reason for the ww to get away.
Good point. What about the tracking ability?
12: I do not have opinion on this because the arso is the weakest NK
This would help it control it’s douses a bit more.
13: do not support, the Hex Master has team to coordinate his actions and its the role or a transporter to disrupt the action of the coven
I felt that if the Arsonist could keep track of douses then the Hex Master should too. I don’t mind if the Hex Master doesn’t have this advantage.
14: I Disagree, vampires are not suspicious, they are not killers.
Vampires spread like a disease. Allowing the Sheriff to find them is fair. Vampires actually can kill, though, when it comes to the Coven/Mafia/Witch.
15: If a a Sheriff is healed by a doctor or saved by a guardian Angel, they could used they new discovery to lynch Pestillence. but we should not get to that point to defeat pestillence.
-
16: I disagree, this seem useless.
If they forge an Investigator, they can share these results with the Mafia. Same for any Investigative that is forged.
17: No reason to remove it. especially if a Janitor want to fake medium after being found by an invest.
They know the role. They can fake it without the will. This buffs the Forger.
18: Disagree, the BG is fine as it is.
It’s overpowered to kill an evil killing role and end up living. 1-1 is perfectly fair when it’s uninformed majority vs informed minority.
19: Disagree, the punishment for executing a town member to lose executions, its fine already.
It still acts as an overpowered Escort afterward. This pushes for careful use of the execution.
20: No, this is a bad idea. Medium is not TI
The Medium finds out exactly the same information. This just makes it so that it is still useful after players leave.
21: just like mayor, but then,. what about confirmed veterans ?
For now, no. There are usually better roles to revive than a Veteran, though, so it probably doesn’t matter that much.


Shilster wrote:2. Mayor is missing.
Gracias.
18. BG gets dealt a Powerful attack.
Basic or Powerful, there isn’t anything that can prevent the counterattack except for the Doctor, which is too strong.
20. Autoconfirms Disg, which is bad.
It only autoconfirms the Disguiser if they leave the game, so they still have a use if they are dead in-game.
Are you going to ignore the rest, Shil? R YA?
User avatar
DragonClaw66
Summer 2019 Winner
Summer 2019 Winner
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:46 am
Location: United States of America


Return to Role Idea Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests