Siren (Neutral Killing)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Please leave feedback on the poll and comment why you feel this way

Role is Weak!
0
No votes
Role is Balanced!
6
75%
Role is Strong!
2
25%
 
Total votes : 8

Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:35 pm

sunbird1002 wrote:The second work around can prove outright gamebreaking, and disrupts voting, so, no, the second one isn't great.

yea i realize that now kinda lets be like asro if i do that bad idea

The first buff is certainly interesting, and would give this role more cover, as well as giving more much needed control. Of course, the downside with enthralling yourself is that now you have more people you need to kill. Also, if the 1st change is to be implemented, then:
1. The Siren has to let itself out the next day. It cant just enthrall itself and go in its hidey-hole for the rest of the game, as then it becomes an unvotable pest which can needlessly extend games. This also gives incentive to let people out as quickly as possible, rather than acting as a perm roleblocker, which honestly isn't very fun to play against. However, it can delay lynching the Siren, because enthralled people cannot be lynched, which may be unfair, as it could easily cost the difference between a won or lost game because of 1 day of an evil role being vote immune.

yea ill do the first one defiantly have to change it so it only allowed to be day for yourself

Either the first change, or no change, is my verdict.


very helpful feedback man thanks, if you have any roles u want me to review before you post them pm them to me
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby sunbird1002 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:44 am

Another question. The roles being kill capable on even nights showing their message.

1. Does that mean that they can only kill 1 person? This severely damages KPN.
2. Otherwise, if it kills 2 people with 1 message, wouldn't that confirm the most recently enthralled?
(If not, that's fine, it would confirm little then)
3. If a role has a specific downside to killing (AKA. Vigilante), would those downsides still occur
(I would prefer not)
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:58 am

sunbird1002 wrote:Another question. The roles being kill capable on even nights showing their message.

1. Does that mean that they can only kill 1 person? This severely damages KPN.
2. Otherwise, if it kills 2 people with 1 message, wouldn't that confirm the most recently enthralled?
(If not, that's fine, it would confirm little then)
3. If a role has a specific downside to killing (AKA. Vigilante), would those downsides still occur
(I would prefer not)


roles that can kill more then once are all NK and this role is NK so that wouldnt happen in ranked expect in coven (medusa/plague)

1/2) i did say the attack is treated like mafiaso is attacking someone didnt i? so i decided it should stay 1 lets say in ALL ANY WW gets enthralled if i keep it ats its normal kill method and it kills more then one person and no enthralled die/ there only 1 enthralled WW is outed as enthralled , if i keep it at one 1 kill its harder to find the NK since theirs no abnormal number of kills to see but other NK are gimped with only 1 kpn on even nights
3) again i said the attack is treated like a mafiaso is attacking someone you arent the vig when you are attacking so no

the only roles that acts differently when enthralled to attack is plaguebringer and pirate since their win conditions are tied reaching a goal has soon has possible i though it would be unfair to them if this wasnt the case


1) the only work around i can see is NK keep their normal attack and but when realeased if NK attacks the siren on an even night when forced to kill they will die instead from an unstoppable attack and have no will like an normal thrall would if an attack failed

===============================================================================================

when it comes to evil killing roles theres an unadvoidable problem if you mask the kill under saying an enthralled did it. and there suddenly no NK killing on even nights town will figure it out fast who the NK is,

if you don't mask the kill saying the enthralled did it town will notice theres one less enthralled killing then their should be based on the number of people the siren captured there's no good solution to this

===================================================================

only soultion i see is death messages would have to go/ be generalized to be killed by town killed by mafia killed by an outsider (neutral) i made a thread on this a while ago on this

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=78648&p=2592891&hilit=outsider#p2592891

but thats a gameplay mechanic not a role mechnaic any other ideas sun?

idealy the siren wants other killers to kill more once she enthralls them not get instant hanged after a capture and release
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:23 pm

I Feel like this role is ready for TG review, but welcome any new feedback on this role, what's the process of submitting a role to TG?
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby sunbird1002 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:50 pm

Simple. Go to the TG submitting page, for more instructions. From my memory, yiu need to send Flake, BS4125, GoogleFeud, Jerme and oliy a message with the title /submitting (username), so in your case, /submitting Mystoc, with a link to your role.

I am sorry, but I sadly doubt its addition. This is for some reasons.
1. TG balancers don't like roles which depend on day numbers. This is as it means thing out of the Siren's control, like mafia happening to hit immune, may have an effect on the day, and therefore, the game's outcome.

2. This role has cumuliating KPN, which is easily stopped. This means it can lack consistancy.

3. The way it is even possible to shut down a player for an entire game is slightly icky.

4. The fact it has little control over their killing means shadowalker vibes will come off.

5. And most sadly, Beserker. I like Beserker a bit more than siren, and tgey share mrchanics. However, even if Beserker has 0.66 direct KPN and an overall 1.33 KPN, something which I like because of its consistancy, it still was ruled against as the role still didn't have full control.

I was too nervius before to point this out. I wish you very well though, and I hope I can be fully convinced by your cause.
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:20 pm

sunbird1002 wrote:Simple. Go to the TG submitting page, for more instructions. From my memory, yiu need to send Flake, BS4125, GoogleFeud, Jerme and oliy a message with the title /submitting (username), so in your case, /submitting Mystoc, with a link to your role.

I am sorry, but I sadly doubt its addition. This is for some reasons.
1. TG balancers don't like roles which depend on day numbers. This is as it means thing out of the Siren's control, like mafia happening to hit immune, may have an effect on the day, and therefore, the game's outcome.

this role doesn't depend on day numbers though

2. This role has cumuliating KPN, which is easily stopped. This means it can lack consistancy.

to stop it town has to kill their own allies same with mafia sure stunt sirens KPN but u end up having to kill ur own allies

3. The way it is even possible to shut down a player for an entire game is slightly icky.

killing a person does the same thing, don't see difference view it has this role dying has rezing the captured person and they back in game

4. The fact it has little control over their killing means shadowalker vibes will come off.

it has much more benefits then shadowalker and can empower itself to gain some control abit slowly

the idea is the siren lets others do the dirty work in exchange for less risk and less control


5. And most sadly, Berserker. I like Beserker a bit more than siren, and tgey share mrchanics. However, even if Beserker has 0.66 direct KPN and an overall 1.33 KPN, something which I like because of its consistancy, it still was ruled against as the role still didn't have full control.

Berserker is like this role because Berserker was posted after this role look at post dates,

my role oct 25 2017
his role july 12 2017

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=7087


I think beserker is unfun and overpowered because the person forced to kill someone dies no matter what so theirs no reason to pick someone to kill it promotes just always choosing no one if the outcome is always death, it pretends to give choice when really the best choice is to refuse to never pick beserker also suffers from the problem of berskered people outing the roles defense with its own ability, which is horrible


I was too nervous before to point this out. I wish you very well though, and I hope I can be fully convinced by your cause.

nah if u dont like something about the role or thinks its flawed dont hold back on it, hope I answered your concerns

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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:47 pm

RNG is never good for any strategy based game. Please learn the definition of what that means, especially if you're one of the people constantly defending it.

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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:05 pm

I have reformatted this so its easier to read and reset the poll as it was very old tell me what you guys think
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