Siren (Neutral Killing)

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Total votes : 7

Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:33 am

-this role is the concept of a killer the lets others choose who to kill for them and has very unique strengths and weaknesses
-warning role is preaty complicated but it has to be for the concept to work correctly so it doesn't out who the killer is very easily

Important key aspects of the role are in RED

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Siren (Neutral Killing)

You are an enchantress who uses your melodious voice to bend others will to your insidious desires

Attack: None/Basic
Defense: Basic

Abilities:

Day Ability: (Every odd day) select anyone to sing a song to that night and enthrall them luring them to follow your voice to your lair where you may choose to keep them captive or release them (once per person)
-If you select yourself you will spend the night and next day at your lair empowering your voice so you are strong enough to attack others yourself every even night, you may only stay in your lair for one night and one day


Day Ability: (Every even day) Decide if/who out of your enthralled you will release from your lair
(enter back into the game no longer a captive)

-Enthralled captives released are forced to kill a person of their choice on every even night
Passive Ability - Know who/if your enthralled victims choose to kill at the end of each even night

Night Ability: (Every night) - Astral visit - pick a target to sing a song of tranquility around them to repell attackers, doing this will give the an non enthralled target a basic defense and an enthralled target an unstopable defense and your own investigative results for that night only.

(Note if the enthralled person attacks someone and they do not die from the enthralled's attack the enthralled will take their own life and attack themselves with an unstopable attack. Enthralled who die in this manner will leave behind no will!)

Attributes:

-Unique role
-Bite Immune

Day Ability: (Every odd day) (Enthrall Ability)

-You may not enthrall anyone twice they will be unselectable on odd days if you have already enthralled them

-After the day ability is used you will learn the role of your enthralled captive at the start of the night
(they under your spell so will tell you anything you want to know)

-A person who is being held captive may not vote or talk in day chat or use their day or night abilities they will also not count towards the voting majority (they are not dead though)

-People who are enthralled to leave their homes can perform no night action that night they will also have an unstoppable Defense for that night and while held captive no action will succeed against them
(like how jailor's defense works for jailed targets)

-If the Siren is killed all enthralled are freed from are her enthrallment and the captive enthralled are released back into the game

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Day Ability: (Every even day) (Release from captivity Ability)

-A Siren may only ever hold two people captive at time if she has two people being held captive at the end of an even day the siren will automatically release her most recently enthralled captive (if she has chosen no one to release otherwise she can chose who she wants to release herself)

-The siren may enthrall has many people has she chooses though (not limited too two)
-Enthralled who are released from the sirens lair can still vote and speak but must always choose to kill someone every even night

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-On every even night, any enthralled person who was released back into the game will be compelled by the sirens song she sings that night to kill someone of their choice if they select no one to kill they will take their own life instead.
-If the sirens attack failed it will just fail she won't die (a smart town will notice you didn't die and prolly hang you though)
-to choose to attack select yourself and then someone else (this will attack them instead of giving them a defense)

-this will force the person to use a killing ability every even night for the rest of the game (role block immune roles are NOT immune to this)

-People who are attacked by an enthralled person are dealt a basic attack
-This basic attack can be stopped (like how any role interacts with a Mafioso attacking someone)

-Victims who are enthralled by the siren may not attack other enthralled victims of the siren on even nights

-Enthralled may not whisper or be whispered too

-Enthralled who choose to do nothing/fail to kill their target will attack themselves with an unstoppable attack and have their will destroyed since they also failed to kill anyone (sirens attack will just fail though she doesn't die)

-Killers who are kill capable on even nights still have to kill or die themselves but their kill message will be
"John was stabbed by the Serial Killer!
------------------->NOT<-------------------
"John was killed last night by an enthralled!"



Role interactions:

Since the sirens abilities are day abilities no night action can stop her from enthralling a victim or releasing a enthralled victim from her lair

-However, if a jailor or sn roleblocker jails/Roleblocks and enthralled target/an empowered siren the victim/siren will attack the
jailor/roleblocker instead

-Regardless of what attack a killer had before if they are enthralled on an even night their attack will only ever be basic and against only one person

However Lookout will see a enthralled person visit you if they are watching you and tracker will see a person visiting you if they are are watching the person you enthrall So this role does have counters!

-Siren beats Jailor in priority its day ability of capturing them happens first, jailor can jail them but not execute since his night action was taken away
(same goes for any other town person jailed the night a jailor is enthralled)

-An enthralled jailor can jail on anyone on an even night (it's a day ability) but his execute is replaced with a basic attack that targets anyone
(expect other enthralled)

-An enthralled pirate can duel anyone but even if it wins it must select someone to kill with a basic attack since , if the pirate wins the duel he will kill the the loser of the duel and the other person he choose with a basic attack
(he can potentially kill two people on even nights)

-Plaguebearer is still forced to kill someone every even night they will still infect the visitors of the person they attempt to kill
-Once Plaguebearer becomes Pestilence they will free themselves from siren's enthrallment! (cause duh pestilence is immune to everything)
-Trying to enthrall Pestilence will fail (siren will not die from visiting since they didn't visit)

-Necromancer may use the sirens ability once the siren dies to kidnap one person this will be an astral kidnapping (it must happen at night to select the siren and someone else at the same time so it cant be a day ability thus why it has to be an astral visit at night) the kidnapped persons role will still be learned but they can never be released unless the necromancer that used the dead sirens ability on them is killed.



Goal:

kill all who would oppose you that are not under the influence of your song!

Investigative Results:

Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious!

(I do not believe this is overpowered this role most times will only ever have .5 "kills" per night and it cant directly choose who it wants to kill)

Investigator: Your target sticks to the shadows they must be Lookout, Forger, Amnesiac , Coven Leader or the Siren! (subject to change if you give me a better one with reasons why)

Consigliere/Witch: Your target is a an enchantress who uses her melodious voice to bend others to her insidious desires, she must be the Siren!

Game Example of Role Mechanics:
Day 1:
-You choose to enthrall Giles

Night 1:
-At the start of the night Giles is enthralled and captured you learn his role is jester
-You choose not use your night ability that gives a target a basic defense and your investigative results for that night

Day 2:
-Giles has been reported to have been enthralled and is now missing but not dead
-You choose allow Giles to leave your lair


Night 2:
-At the start of the night Giles is released and is forced to kill someone or die he chooses someone and successfully kills them,
-You also choose to use your night ability and give Giles a basic defense and your investigative results for that night

Day 3:
-You choose to enthrall John

Night 3:
-You learn John's role is Jailor
-You also choose to use your night ability and give Giles a basic defense and your investigative results for that night[/i]

Day 4:
-John has been reported to have been enthralled and is now missing but not dead
-You choose to keep John captive


Night 4:
-John is still being held captive he is not forced to kill and and can perform no action
-Giles is again forced to kill someone, he attacks someone but they were healed by the doctor his attacked failed to kill Giles dies from an unstoppable attack and his will is destroyed!
-You also choose to use your night ability and give Giles a basic defense and your investigative results for that night but he attacked himself with an unstoppable attack he dies


Day 5:
-You Chose to Enthrall Martha
-John is still nowhere to be found but not dead


Night 5:
-You learn Martha's Role is medium
-You choose not use your night ability that gives a target a basic defense and your investigative results for that night

Day 6:
-Martha has been reported to have been enthralled and is now missing but not dead
-John is still nowhere to be found but not dead
-You must choose release at least one of your captives or the most recent one will released automatically
-You choose allow Martha to leave your lair
-You choose allow John to leave your lair


Night 6:
-You choose not use your night ability that gives a target a basic defense and your investigative results for that night
-At the start of the night John is released and is forced to kill someone or die he chooses someone and successfully kills them,
-At the start of the night Martha is released and is forced to kill someone or die she chooses someone and successfully kills them,


Day 7:
-You, John and Martha are the last 3 alive
-The game ends you killed all who would oppose you that are not under the influence of your song! You win!


I tried to include all the examples that could happen for this role in a 7 day game period only one i didn't include was someone refusing to pick anyone and dying

Lore: (Warning this is very long)

The girl never understood why she and her mother were always on the run. If they stayed long enough in one place they would draw to much notice from the villagers, their beauty was too perfect, so perfect in fact they appeared so otherworldly that surely no one could be that good looking. Their voices were so angelic when people heard them speak they could think of nothing else but doing whatever it took to hear them speak again after a while some would become suspicious of this perfect mother and daughter thus the duo never stayed in one place for long. The girl saw other happy children with their parents and they and got to stay in one place and had two parents well she only had one it wasn’t fair! The girl did however understand that she and her mother were unusual and why they couldn't stay in one place from for long, people always listened to them when they spoke. Her mother was able to get them a place to sleep and food to eat simply by asking nicely because her mother was the best! Her mother was such a kind person that people couldn’t help but listen to her! Her mother told the girl although they were different they must do their best to always keep their powers a secret for people feared what they couldn't understand, and what they didn't understand they destroyed.

During their travels her mother told the girl history of their people. A long time ago their people had been a plentiful and prosperous people who lived in isolation from the rest of the world. Their people had been happy to live a simple peaceful life on their island. Their people had always expressed themselves through their singing it was such an integral part of them that it was second nature for them to sing. When they were happy they sang when they were sad they sang when there were angry they sang. Their song was so enchanting and magical that it traveled leagues and leagues out to sea from their homeland.

One day unfortunately a group of sailors happened to sail closer than anyone ever had before to their people's homeland and heard this magical singing. Enthralled by this wondrous medley the sailors could think of nothing else expect following this song to its source. Sadly however these sailors were so enthralled they didn’t think to even try to swim or to even try to hold their breath as they leapt into the sea one after another they simply sank to the bottom of the ocean never to be seen or heard of again. The mother told the girl that their ancestors had never met outsiders before so they had no idea that their song would have such adverse effects on outsiders.

These sailors would be missed however so another expedition was sent out to find out what had happened to them and they too were condemned to the same dreadful fate. This went on for many years until one caption with a strong enough will and wit figured out who resist the enthralling song long enough to deafen himself with scalding hot candle wax the rest of his crew however was not so fortunate the captain was the sole survivor. The captain unable to man the ship on his own without his crew drifted for months till he finally washed ashore to report to his king the fate of his crew and all the crews before him.

The king furious in learning what had happened to his subjects sent an entire armada to find the source of this singing and extinguish it once and for all so no others would ever suffer the same fate again. This time the crew was prepared all their ears had been stoppered with wax so they couldn’t hear a thing. There people’s homeland was promptly invaded and their people subjugated. Their Ancestors were powerless to defend themselves unaccustomed to violence they knew nothing of how to fight after living so long in isolation and peace. All the men of the island were killed for fear they would revolt, while the women were kept as slaves their tongues removed so they would never sing and enthrall and cloud the minds of men again.

Their people not knowing of the deaths they had inadvertently caused with their singing had no idea what they had done to deserve such horrible treatment and hated their captors and the murders of their loved ones with a red hot hatred. Centuries later the legends and songs of their people were forgotten and told has a myths to scare children unruly children into compliance. The girl and her mother were the very descendants of these slaves for her mother’s mother had told her mother this story of their people and her mother before that had done the same and so on thus was the legacy of their people preserved passed down from generation to generation.

This story of their ancestors had a lesson and purpose behind it besides keeping the legend of their people alive. Their people had been enslaved and killed because they had drawn too much attention to themselves with their song this why her mother forbade the girl from singing, she must never sing ever again. The girl with story of her ancestor’s fate fresh in her mind solemnly promised to her mother that she would never sing again. As sad as it was for them both to deny a part of their very nature it was necessary for singing would most definitely draw unwanted attention from others. Although Girl and her mother lived a hard life always moving from one town to the next it was life where they still found their own version of happiness.

This went on for many years in this manner and no incidents occurred. So many years had passed in fact yhe girl in fact had grown into a young woman, a mirror image of her mother. They looked so similar in fact that one would mistake them for the same person or sisters from afar. So it was one night while her mother slept the daughter snuck out of their home and crossed over the town bridge to outskirts of town. The daughter had always kept her promise she had made all all those years ago. But the time had come when she could no longer resist the temptation. Singing was part of her very nature and to deny herself was deny a part of her very soul if she didn't sing she would surely go insane and sing at more inopportune time. Better the daughter sing here far away from others if she was quite no one hear her all the way out here. Although the daughter had been sure to be careful she had not gone out quite far enough and her song just a little tad too loud. What the girl didn’t realize was that her song was magical in nature what should have been a quiet whisper of a song carried much farther then should have been possible.

the villagers on the edge of town closest to the daughter were half awoken enthralled by her wonderful singing and as if still asleep in a dream they arose from their beds and began to sleep walk to source of the enthralling sound. A boy still too young to be affected by the singing watch in bewilderment as his parents in a stupor left the homes and began to walk towards the unearthly sound. The boy followed his parents and tried to snap them out their stupor to no success. The boy's parents and other villagers enthralled by the song weren’t concerned how they got to the source of singing just that they did.

So it was the boy watched in horror as his parents others tried to cross the raging river without using the town bridge powerless to stop them the boy watched the raging river sweep away his loved ones one by one never to be seen again. As if history was destined to repeat itself the daughter had caused the death of innocent's unbeknownst to her. And just like before there had been one witness. The boy looked across the river in horror at at the monster who had killed his parents the daughter. The boy recognized the singer it was one of the newcomers who had arrived in town last week! Filled with dread the boy sprinted back to town wrung the town bell of the clock tower the town had to be warned of this monster in their midst!. Bleary eyed the townsfolk walked out into the town square to hear the boy's tale at first they thought him mad or jesting, but they did notice some of their number were missing and visible footprints lead to river and stopped there and what reason did the boy have to lie?

Fueled by self-righteous rage and vengeance grieving for their loved ones the mob made their way to the mother and daughter's home. However the mother had already heard the commotion has well and had already gone out to see what the problem was. Quickly the boy spotted her and cried "There she is! it's the monster who killed my parents, get the witch burn her at the stake!" The mother tried to run tried to sing but there was simply too many of them they quickly hit her over the head stunning her then proceeded to gag her. The daughter too heard the clock tower in the distance as well and ceased singing, filled with curiosity she went to investigate the source of the noise at such a late hour. To her horror she saw a mob of villagers tying her beloved mother to the stake piles of wood had already been stacked under her mother’s bound form, it was clear what the town planned to do.

The daughter then realized to her horror has the crier declared her mother’s crimes of what she had inadvertently done. The daughter young and naive thought she could save her mother if she admitted it was her who had done these crimes not her mother and began to step of the shadows to take the punishment instead. Her mother saw her from the shadows and quietly shook her head as tears welled in her eyes she silently begged her daughter to stay safe. The daughter torn from indecision was unable to decide what to do.There the daughter tood frozen in horror as she watched has her mother burn and the Town of Salem began jeer and laugh. As the gag burned away the mother screamed her final and last song!

It was that night the daughter became the women she no longer had a mother anymoret o protect her from the harshness of life, she was an orphan alone and hated by all. No longer sheltered by innocence of a naive adolescence for the first time she truly saw the world for what it was a cruel and horrible world. A world where the weak killed what they didn't understand and the strong suffered for allowing the weak to fear them, but by doing nothing they empowered them to become the strong. The women vowed she would never be weak again she would have vengeance on all her mother's killers. But first she needed allies people who saw the world like she did now people who were also shunned by others like her but knew how to kill for she had never killed anyone before.

First the woman turned to the mafia although they were evil and no problem killing they still didn’t welcome monsters into their midst they had heard of what she had done to the villagers and feared they would be next and tried to kill her on sight so she fled. The next obvious choice of course was the coven they were witches after all like her surely they would accept her and help her get her vengeance. However the witches were vain and spiteful creatures. After one look at her they rejected her she was just too beautiful for the likes them they said. The witches were horribly scarred and malformed from all the vile concoctions they brewed and dark magic they had practiced. Although she was a witch she was still an unwanted and alone wherever she went shunned by even the vilest of beings.

It was then the women realized that no one cared for her even the murders rejected her so she would reject them as well. The Women now filled with hate and malice vowed she would kill them all the reason didnt matter anymore they all had to die! This was no longer about avenging her mother's death it was about the unfairness of the world that had killed her mother no one had cared for them looked out for them and her mother had been killed for a crime she didn't even commit. Very well they thought her a monster and murderer and they were right, for who other than a monster got their own mother killed. If she was capable of getting her own mother killed surely was just as capable of killing others infact she already had! It was then that the monster descended into true psychopathy all that was left to her was what she had become a killer a monster. The monster would find her own happiness once every last one of them was dead. Her song would echo through the empty land of the dead. It didn’t matter she knew nothing of how to kill herself after all that was the only thing others would were good now, for all she would simply just ask them nicely to kill and kill they would. After all her ancestors had been called the sirens for a reason..

Notifications:
-People will see this when a person lured into the siren's lair from her song
"Name" is nowhere to be found the have fallen under the influence of the Sirens song!

-People will see this when/if a enthralled player is released from sirens captivity
"Name" has been reappeared! but you can tell the Siren still holds sway over them!

-People will see this if a enthralled person kills someone
"Name was killed last night by an enthralled!"

-People will see this when an enthralled person fails to kill/select anyone
"Name" was unable to fulfill the sirens song to kill another so they killed themselves instead!"

-The Siren sees this at the start of night after the choose enthrall someone with their day ability
"You enthralled "Name" they are now your captive, you learned your new captives role is "role"

-The Siren sees at the start of the night after they released their captive
"You choose to release "Name" from your lair they will now be forced to kill someone of their choice every full moon!

-The Siren sees this at the end of every even night when her enthralled kills someone
"Under the influence of your song "Name" choose attempt to kill "Name"

-The Siren sees this if her enthralled chooses to kill no one
"Under the influence of your song "Name" refused to kill anyone driven to madness to kill someone you're enthralled took their own life instead!

-Siren sees this at end of night if she chooses sings a song of protection around someone
You choose to sing your song of protection around "Name"!"

-Players sees this at start of night when they are enthralled by the Sirens song
"You hear a exquisite song and feel compelled to follow it to its source, you have become enthralled and are now the sirens captive!"

-Enthralled Players see this when the siren chooses to keep them captive
"You are still the sirens captive!"

-Enthralled Players see this when the siren chooses release them from her lair
"the Siren decided to release you from her lair!"

-Enthralled players see this when they are compelled to kill by sirens song on full moons
"You hear a haunting melody you feel compelled to kill someone or you feel you will go insane!"

-Enthralled players see this when they are successfully kill someone
"You killed "Name" you feel you can focus on other things for now"

-Enthralled players see this when they refuse to pick someone to kill
"You refused to act on the Siren's song it has driven to madness you took your own life instead!"

-Enthralled players see this when they choose someone to kill but fail to kill them
you tried to kill "Name" but failed to do so you killed yourself in shame for failing the Siren"

-Enthralled players see this when the Siren is killed
"The Siren is dead you are no under her spell!"

-Enthralled captive players see this when the Siren is killed
"the Siren is dead you are no longer under her spell and are freed from her captivity!"



Pros and Cons:
Pros

-Can learn an enthralled person's role this will help you choose whether to release them or keep them captive
-Can keep one person at a time max out the game till you die
-You can enthrall a high target role like jailor who cant do anything again till you are killed
-No night action can stop you from enthralling or releasing an enthralled target
-Sheriff Immune


Cons
-Very low "kills" per night at just .5 (most times)
-Cannot kill directly an enthralled person chooses who will die, others or themselves you have no input
-Enthralled people can still talk and vote against the siren once they are released from captivity
-Tracker and Lookout are Huge counters to the Siren



Feedback is needed and extremely welcome!!
Last edited by Mystoc on Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am, edited 186 times in total.
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby rainesbrys » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:42 am

its like the Plaguebearer but it doesnt spread but there is no alt goal making it an easy win like vamps without a vamp hunter
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:56 am

rainesbrys wrote:its like the Plaguebearer but it doesnt spread but there is no alt goal making it an easy win like vamps without a vamp hunter


people bewitched don't win with you its nothing like vampire

their goal is to still whatever their original one was (you can just win if all who are alive are bewitched)

i have no clue how you are comparing this role to plaguebringer it is nothing like it at all
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Seththeking » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:07 am

I like it and made a role similar to this. I really hated my Feedback on it which was like: People should vote! this hurts Town!
but since this is a NK people might not hate this XD even if it wasn't NK you have my /Support
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:55 pm

yea took bomber of kill or be killed idea and added a lot stuff to it

i think people dont like ur roles cause you make so many of them with like 3 sentences so they feel you made low effort some of them are decent though
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Venusupreme » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:14 pm

I feel like this would be a controversial role and one that would take a while to program. However... I think it actually sounds pretty fun and not ridiculously overpowered.

It’s up for debate whether or not this is really suitable for Ranked or not, it might belong better as an NC like Plaguebearer.

I’m kinda curious, would anything happen if a Necromancer tried to make use of this role in the graveyard?
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:29 pm

doesnt seem hard to program to me its basicly

two day abilities depending on the day and one night ability that's astral

and the kidnapping part is basicly just jailor with no night chat

the part where a person doesn't show up during the day you just code like they are dead but display no body, upon them being released from captivity just use retrib code and change the message

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if the person u bewitch kills at least one other person you get 1 kpn if they don't and always choose to die you will always have .5 so its balanced around choice

well this role does chaos in the town are killing other people when normally they cant it main goal is just to kill like a normal NK plus NK isnt in ranked so i kinda have bais towards it i perfer NK or NC but i do agree it my role can fit

prolly best question ever been asked i usually consider every aspect of a role before i publish an idea but i completely forget about necromancer

maybe it would just be an astral visit that kills them with a basic attack?

i see no way to incorporate parts of this role into necromancer without it being OP or UP

bewitching someone to kill every even night is kinda bad for your faction since they can target your faction and kill them so you wouldn't want to do that it would anti syngery

and kidnapping a person till you die would be seems very strong for a one time use ability

i think astral basic attack that cant be stopped in anyway would be fair or the one time kidnap could work but might be too strong

what do you think vesp?
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Seththeking » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:18 am

Mystoc wrote:yea took bomber of kill or be killed idea and added a lot stuff to it

i think people dont like ur roles cause you make so many of them with like 3 sentences so they feel you made low effort some of them are decent though



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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:14 am

yea most people want more detailed role ideas though try make them more clear with more detail some of you ideas are decent you just explain them enough

on side not i changed night ability slightly to this

Night Ability: (Every even night) - Astral visit - pick a target to sing a song of protection around them this will repels attackers of weak will doing this will give the target a basic defense and your own investigative results for that night only.

(Note if the bewitched attacks someone and they do not die from the bewitched's attack the bewitched will take their own life instead bewitched who die in this manner will leave behind no will!


the idea is people are bewitched cant announce who they will attack on the next even night it would completely invalidate the sirens ability if it could be used against her so if someone dies in this manner the siren can say the siren used this ability on me, you can also use this ability on others you think a bewitched will attack to make that person look siren or to simply kill of a bewitched, this is also useful to save witch and survivor jester but it main effect is to counter people from announcing who they will kill during the day this ability punishes that and covers the glaring hole in this roles identity that ur ability can be used to expose you

changed the status the siren inflicts on her victims from the word bewitched to enthralled

i found bewitched was to similar someone getting witched by the witch so i changed the name
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Blayzeatron » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:50 pm

This is a very complicated role. Just a little hard to learn most likely for new players but seems like it could be quite fun.

Unless I misread, I'm pretty sure you said that if a jailor jails someone who is enthralled on the same night the siren enthralls them they cannot execute but the jailing still goes off. But what happens if the jailor jails the siren on the same night she tries to enthrall the jailor? Jailor should take precedence imo.

Does an enthralled person who is released on an even day as per the ability have to then either kill or be killed that night, or they get one night reprieve?

There is also another problem. What if you choose to release a member of the mafia? You just gave mafia 2KPN. Considering you have to keep them for longer to learn their role, instant releases (which idk how good of an idea that is without any gameplay experience) have a good chance for that.
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:18 pm

Blayzeatron wrote:This is a very complicated role. Just a little hard to learn most likely for new players but seems like it could be quite fun.

i feel like you would learn the role with 1-3 games

Unless I misread, I'm pretty sure you said that if a jailor jails someone who is enthralled on the same night the siren enthralls them they cannot execute but the jailing still goes off. But what happens if the jailor jails the siren on the same night she tries to enthrall the jailor? Jailor should take precedence imo.

that is under town interactions section currently the siren still gets jailed but the jailor cant execute and gets enthralled

you see this is according to game mechanics they are both day abilities so the both must go off jailor execute is night ability to enthrall will beat it jailing cant stop a day ability from happening so the siren should get to enthrall him

basicly the both get their abilities off but jailor cant execute cause excute is a night ability


Does an enthralled person who is released on an even day as per the ability have to then either kill or be killed that night, or they get one night reprieve?

the kill right away get abducted n1 released n2 to kill via day 2 day ability

There is also another problem. What if you choose to release a member of the mafia? You just gave mafia 2KPN. Considering you have to keep them for longer to learn their role, instant releases (which idk how good of an idea that is without any gameplay experience) have a good chance for that.



they must kill n2 after being abducted at the start of n1

it's not a problem that good for you they will kill more town for you and its not 2 kpn its 1.5 kpn an enthrall only is forced to kill every even night so released at start of n2 has to kill n2 then n4

think of it this BG and LO is more likely to see stop 2 of them now rather than one

also if an enthralled persons attack fails to kill they die so there's a chance mafia can die from this

you learn their role at the start of n1(not the night after) since your day ability u use night captures them at the very start of the night



i will add a day by day game example for this role since this role is has somewhat of a learning curve to understand
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Blayzeatron » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:20 am

Ok that day by day example was very helpful, thankyou.

So just to point out, this would make the Siren the only role that wins 1 v 1 against a jailor who has executes left?

Also all of the notifications and chaos that this role causes means that they will most likely become very high priority, especially to those who are enthralled. Additionally whenever you release a townie you pretty much turn them into a vigilante with no guilt. They are going to try their best to kill the mafia. I don't really know i this will be a problem though. It's really hard to tell with no experience with the role. Like there is so much to the roll I just can't tell how it will affect the game.

Maybe it needs some time in TG :)
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:55 am

Blayzeatron wrote:Ok that day by day example was very helpful, thankyou.

So just to point out, this would make the Siren the only role that wins 1 v 1 against a jailor who has executes left?

yes that's correct that is fair it has .5 kills a night (most times) and can never kill directly the sirens strength is that its "attack" is an day ability if it wasn't it would be the weakest NK in the game

also keep in mind this role would only win a 1v1 with jailor if the tie happens on an odd night it was an even night siren cant use its enthrall ability and jailor wins by defualt


Also all of the notifications and chaos that this role causes means that they will most likely become very high priority, especially to those who are enthralled. Additionally whenever you release a townie you pretty much turn them into a vigilante with no guilt. They are going to try their best to kill the mafia. I don't really know i this will be a problem though. It's really hard to tell with no experience with the role. Like there is so much to the roll I just can't tell how it will affect the game.


a top target maybe if the siren imprisons an important role like jailor and does not release some town may feel they like the siren because it lets them get .5 extra kills a night a good town can kill mafia with this ability which is good for you

whoever town or mafia kills once the siren releases them is good for the siren i don't really view it as being a vigilante town or another mafia mafioso a faction gets every even night they are just extensions of you killing who they want

note if they fail to kill they die and their will is destroyed so that includes targeting someone with a basic defense(you) and them living so this ability cant be used against you


Maybe it needs some time in TG :)

yes it would be interesting to see the role in action
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:24 am

buffed this role abit

lemme know if this is too strong

-Siren has the passive ability to know who there victim choose to kill at the end of each even night
-Siren's enthralled victims who are forced to kill someone of their choice on even nights now have a basic defense on even nights only
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:45 pm

i feel like finally got this role right changed the role yet again

i removed enthralled attackers having basic defense on even nights

and changed the night ability to give someone a basic defense and your investigative results from use able every EVEN night to useable EVERY night

giving another basic defense can be used to make another person look like siren or simple protect NE from dying or if a town enthralled member says i will attack john you can give john a basic defense cause they attack to fail and destroy the enthralled attackers will this addresses the problem of enthralled attackers using your own abilities against you by saying they will attack you , you can claim that the siren used her ability on you no matter the outcome

i feel i got the role right this time

any thoughts or feedback?
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Poll Added)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:21 pm

think i got i'm done with changing this role

added a poll on what you guys think on its balance

and what alignment it should be some you mentioned this works as NC as well as NK

so tell me what you guys think!
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Poll Added)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:46 pm

more feedback would be appreciated on this role please also answer the poll

thanks
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby Mystoc » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:52 pm

I love this role so much a spent like a lot hours writing the lore for this role. it's pretty long to be honest but i would love to know what you think of it

your feedback has been extremely helpful guys thank you!
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:51 am

Unless I've missed something, does this have any influence over who it kills other than if their target doesn't choose to kill anyone?
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:44 am

HereThereEverywhere wrote:Unless I've missed something, does this have any influence over who it kills other than if their target doesn't choose to kill anyone?


not directly though but it does have infulence

two ways it can indirectly kill someone enthrall another you think are likely to attack the person you want die,

or enthrall the person you want dead and predict who they will try to kill give that target a basic defense with your night ability the person you want dead will now die because they failed to kill who they picked

its enthrall ability is unstoppable so its Kills per night and it ability to kill directly are less the other killing roles

its pretty much even in the poll if you guys think it should be NK or NC both fit quite well this role does cause chaos but is also capable of winning a game as NK i think

also some of you are voting it's too strong but not telling me why you think that without feedback means i cant make the role better
Last edited by Mystoc on Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:50 am

I don't think it has enough control to be an NK, but it might be fun, so I'd say NC. The only other NK who doesn't have full control over who they kill is WW, which is arguably the worst since it's so luck-based.
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:24 am

HereThereEverywhere wrote:I don't think it has enough control to be an NK, but it might be fun, so I'd say NC. The only other NK who doesn't have full control over who they kill is WW, which is arguably the worst since it's so luck-based.


the only requirements of NK i think is needs to have guaranteed kills and this role does have guaranteed kills of at least .5 kills the more people who chose to kill instead of die the more KPN this role gets. i'm not sure it needs to directly be able to kill . isn't the shadowstalker NK in TG does not have direct kills?

here we go TG

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=20013

The Role

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=39999
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:32 am

I'm not saying it should have direct kills, I'm saying it should have control over who it kills. Without control, it's down to educated guessing and luck.
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:37 am

HereThereEverywhere wrote:I'm not saying it should have direct kills, I'm saying it should have control over who it kills. Without control, it's down to educated guessing and luck.


i gave you example of a role in TG that doesn't have control of who it kills directly it has to predict who the person visits, i wouldnt say its luck, with enough info you can predict who the person will visit

i wouldn't called it guessing it's more like predicting who someone will kill/visit the shadowstalker does the same thing but just has to predict who someone will visit
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Re: Siren (Neutral Killing) (Lore Added!)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:41 am

You can predict, but predicting isn't everything. Being in TG doesn't mean I have to like a role or think it's good either. Werewolf has to predict where people will visit and attack based off of that, yet it's typically not a very good role because it relies on getting lucky with it's predictions. Werewolf is worse because it can only attack every other day, so people can just not visit then, but it's still not a good aspect of an NK.
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