New role: Cyrogenecist

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New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:11 am

Name: Cyrogenecist (You know how "scientist" is one who studies science? And "Biologist" is one who studies Biology? What the hell is the name for someone who studies cryogenics? That's the word I'm looking for).

Mafia Support

Night Ability: Place a member of the mafia into Stasis. May not be used on himself. Maximum of two uses.

Attributes: Mafia in Stasis cannot die through any means - including lynching. The town will be informed when somene is placed in stasis.

The mafia member is roleblocked until he chooses to leave stasis, which he may do at any night by selecting himself.

The stasis goes into effect immediately after the night. This means that if the Mafioso is placed into Stasis on N7, he may not be lynched the following day BUT any attacks on him on N7 still kill him (Barring immunity)

Investigation results: Quite frankly I haven't played this game in months, so I have no clue.

Anybody vs Mafia in stasis only rersults in an insta - lose for mafia (NB and NE aside obviously)
Last edited by Spectre0 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby DumbStorm » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:37 am

WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:41 am

DumbStorm wrote:WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.


GA?

Why can't lynch immunity be added?
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby timurtheking » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:42 am

I dont think theres a name for a scientist who studies cryogenics specifically.
Does stasis last only for a day?
But this seems not very aggressive at all, mafia are supposed to be on offence not defence (unless I'm mistaken)
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby rorororo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:42 am

It would be obvious that your role's target is a mafia!
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:43 am

rorororo wrote:It would be obvious that your role's target is a mafia!


Yes. That's the downside of literal immunity
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby JGaming08 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:44 am

DumbStorm wrote:WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.

Storm's an asshole. Ignore them.

Problem with this role is that it makes your target lynch immune along with hard-countering most NK's, which shouldn't be done considering they're weak enough already.
Lynch immunity is bad because it just confirms them as evil.

The only good thing about this is that it can stall a little bit but it's just horribly unbalanced in different situations~

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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby rorororo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:44 am

timurtheking wrote:I don't think there's a name for a scientist who studies cryogenics specifically.
Does stasis last only for a day?
But this seems not very aggressive at all, mafia is supposed to be on offense not defense (unless I'm mistaken)

the Coven is the aggressive one, the Mafia is less aggressive than it.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby DumbStorm » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:44 am

Spectre0 wrote:
DumbStorm wrote:WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.


GA?

Why can't lynch immunity be added?


Guardian Angel.

If there are no other good lynch targets, it promotes a no lynch which is a detriment to Town since there's an extra Townie kill.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:51 am

DumbStorm wrote:
Spectre0 wrote:
DumbStorm wrote:WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.


GA?

Why can't lynch immunity be added?


Guardian Angel.

If there are no other good lynch targets, it promotes a no lynch which is a detriment to Town since there's an extra Townie kill.



Oh no detriments to town.

Also there's always a mafia that can be lynched if someone is in stasis. Cyro cant stasis himself.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:54 am

JGaming08 wrote:
DumbStorm wrote:WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.

Storm's an asshole. Ignore them.

Problem with this role is that it makes your target lynch immune along with hard-countering most NK's, which shouldn't be done considering they're weak enough already.
Lynch immunity is bad because it just confirms them as evil.

The only good thing about this is that it can stall a little bit but it's just horribly unbalanced in different situations~

Also, welcome back~



Not exactly a hardcounter. This role adds much more than stall. It's intended to give mafia versatile utility mid-game, which requires the ability to, to some degree, predict town's actions (Not actually that hard when some are dead).

Mafia needs a mid-game role.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Parallax7 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:55 am

@Dumb

You do realize in actuality, it'd promote a policy lynch, right?

I mean, there will still be two scum for this role to even function. So either the Cryo, or Mafioso/Godfather is still susceptible to lynches.
However, when scum is alone, this role is next to useless, as they are faced with a dilemma of un-freezing to pursue victory, or sit on their lynch immunity @ death immunity, settling for a draw. I'd like to know what the role's draw counter interaction is, Spec.

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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby DumbStorm » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:56 am

Spectre0 wrote:
DumbStorm wrote:
Spectre0 wrote:
DumbStorm wrote:WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.


GA?

Why can't lynch immunity be added?


Guardian Angel.

If there are no other good lynch targets, it promotes a no lynch which is a detriment to Town since there's an extra Townie kill.



Oh no detriments to town.

Also there's always a mafia that can be lynched if someone is in stasis. Cyro cant stasis himself.


No, the point is that it basically removes one of the core mechanics of the game. It's why BM is thought of to be dumb. You can't take away a core mechanic away like lynching. Even the 'God of Disease, Pestilence' can be lynched in ToS, so lynch immunity is kind of out of the question.

If you find garunteed scum and it can't be lynched all of a sudden, well, who are you going to lynch in this situation? You don't know who the scum are 100%.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:58 am

DumbStorm wrote:No, the point is that it basically removes one of the core mechanics of the game. It's why BM is thought of to be dumb. You can't take away a core mechanic away like lynching. Even the 'God of Disease, Pestilence' can be lynched in ToS, so lynch immunity is kind of out of the question.

If you find garunteed scum and it can't be lynched all of a sudden, well, who are you going to lynch in this situation? You don't know who the scum are 100%.



I'm not sure why core mechanics are sacred ground if they're interfered with in a balanced game.

If you find garunteed scum and it can't be lynched all of a sudden, well, who are you going to lynch in this situation? You don't know who the scum are 100%.


I guess you'll have to do more work. As town.

It's not like that mafia is going anywhere.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Parallax7 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:01 am

DumbStorm wrote:No, the point is that it basically removes one of the core mechanics of the game. It's why BM is thought of to be dumb. You can't take away a core mechanic away like lynching. Even the 'God of Disease, Pestilence' can be lynched in ToS, so lynch immunity is kind of out of the question.

If you find garunteed scum and it can't be lynched all of a sudden, well, who are you going to lynch in this situation? You don't know who the scum are 100%.


Dumb, lynches are no more a core mechanic than scum's kill at night. In fact, they're Town's inverse of the latter.
Voting, is a core mechanic, not lynching. So the argument this tampers with core mechanics is flawed ~ unless you want to debate that Doctor/Bodyguard should be removed.

By the way, your second point is moot ~ scum reading, investigating, and VFR still exist. At the very least, a policy lynch does.

This role has several kinks, but nothing overly wrong has been exaggerated by your points.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby JGaming08 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:02 am

Spectre0 wrote:
JGaming08 wrote:
DumbStorm wrote:WOO THIS FUCKS BACK

*ahem*

Role's shit, makes me want to die from hypothermia that an experienced player like you even thought of this. Lynching should never be disallowed (GA doing it is dumb and unbalanced, but atleast you know who can't be lynched)

This basicaly gives Mafia lynch immunity from GA, but never actually tells Town that the specific member is immune from the lynch.

Basically, no, this should never be added.

Storm's an asshole. Ignore them.

Problem with this role is that it makes your target lynch immune along with hard-countering most NK's, which shouldn't be done considering they're weak enough already.
Lynch immunity is bad because it just confirms them as evil.

The only good thing about this is that it can stall a little bit but it's just horribly unbalanced in different situations~

Also, welcome back~



Not exactly a hardcounter. This role adds much more than stall. It's intended to give mafia versatile utility mid-game, which requires the ability to, to some degree, predict town's actions (Not actually that hard when some are dead).

Mafia needs a mid-game role.


It is a hardcounter. Powerful and Unstoppable defence are only needed for roles that are meant to be OP like Pestilence or Juggernaut~
It nerfs both Werewolf and Arsonist by giving them one less kill.

Mafia is an offensive faction, Mafia doctors tend to just be wasted space.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Parallax7 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:03 am

USE SPOILERS. IF I SEE ANOTHER WALL, I WILL START SENDING OUT WARNINGS.


Carry on. :)
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:08 am

A hardcounter - except it prevents lynching, dying to Jailor, dying to Vigilante, dying to Vampire. J, Vampire Hunter is a hardcounter. Utterly useless against anything that's not a Vampire(until all Vamps are dead, but then it's not a VH technically). This role doesn't only hurt Nks.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby ProfessorArceus » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:57 am

Spoiler:
Spectre0 wrote:Name: Cyrogenecist (You know how "scientist" is one who studies science? And "Biologist" is one who studies Biology? What the hell is the name for someone who studies cryogenics? That's the word I'm looking for). I've got no idea.

Mafia Support

Night Ability: Place a member of the mafia into Stasis. May not be used on himself. Maximum of two uses.

Attributes: Mafia in Stasis cannot die through any means - including lynching That's really overpowered. Lynching is Town's main way of killing,
and disabling this for 2 Mafia members defeats the point of lynches, mostly. Since Town is notified, people will focus on NKs... NKs are weak enough, we shouldn't let Town focus on them and by preventing Mafia lynches, this is exactly what it does.
. The town will be informed when someone is placed in stasis. 100% confirms the Mafia member, but it doesn't matter since they're fucking invincible.

The mafia member is roleblocked until he chooses to leave stasis, which he may do at any night by selecting himself. This is OP. Just put the Mafioso in to stasis and keep the 1KPN of GF, then wait till very lategame/mid-game and use it on GF. Then you have 2 Mafia members which are invincible. Always,
until they choose to leave it.


The stasis goes into effect immediately after the night. This means that if the Mafioso is placed into Stasis on N7, he may not be lynched the following day BUT any attacks on him on N7 still kill him (Barring immunity) Okay, give it a priority level.

Investigation results: Quite frankly I haven't played this game in months, so I have no clue.

Anybody vs Mafia in stasis only rersults in an insta - lose for mafia (NB and NE aside obviously) This will very rarely happen since - well - they can release themselves.


But seriously; where have you been?
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:39 pm

Arc, the Town is notified that someone is in stasis. Like an Amnesiac remembering, it doesn't confirm the player, only that the action has happened. The only way this confirms someone as in stasis is if they don't die to a lynch.

If two Mafia are put into stasis, that means they're not going to be doing anything, Town can still find them via TIs, and the Godfather/Mafioso can be roleblocked/jailed and then Mafia's kpn is shut down until one comes out of stasis, which is a waste of time. Framer being in stasis from N1 is a good idea except that you now know one of the Mafia's invest results, so even then you can't just slam someone into stasis even if they're a useless role unless you want Town on you. But say you have a Consig or Consort, are you really going to put them in stasis early on and weaken your Mafia? Again, put Mafioso into GF and then GF gets roleblocked or jailed, then Mafia loses that member and gains nothing.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:52 pm

Place the Mafioso in Stasis and keep your KPN, sure. Until Godfather is roleblocked and lynched because, as people keep seeming to be missing, *town knew mafia has kept a player on Stasis since the first night*
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:40 pm

Edited the OP with a couple tidbits.

Also bump.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby ProfessorArceus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:06 pm

Spoiler: Give a limit to the total nights someone can be in stasis. They can exit at any time, but they can't stay for over a certain amount of nights. Fair?

HereThereEverywhere wrote:it doesn't confirm the player

They can't be lynched. I'd assume this means that they can't be voted up? This confirms them as Mafia.

Also - the role is a very defensive role, and Mafia is an offensive faction. Timur said this and I thought I'd bring it up again.
rorororo wrote:
timurtheking wrote:I don't think there's a name for a scientist who studies cryogenics specifically.
Does stasis last only for a day?
But this seems not very aggressive at all, mafia is supposed to be on offense not defense (unless I'm mistaken)

the Coven is the aggressive one, the Mafia is less aggressive than it.

The fact that Coven is more offensive than Mafia doesn't make Mafia defensive. It's like saying
My 100km long ruler is longer than your 99.999km ruler. Your ruler is short.

And before you say it - I know that you didn't say that Mafia was defensive. But it was implied when you made the statement altogether. If you weren't implying that, it was completely redundant;
My 100km long ruler is longer than your 99.999km ruler. Your ruler is shorter than mine.

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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:35 pm

I'd assume they would be able to be voted, but should majority be reached and them to be deemed guilty, they just wouldn't die. If it's not like this, then the role is incredibly weak.
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Re: New role: Cyrogenecist

Postby Spectre0 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:45 pm

HereThereEverywhere wrote:I'd assume they would be able to be voted, but should majority be reached and them to be deemed guilty, they just wouldn't die. If it's not like this, then the role is incredibly weak.


Yes.

The fact that Coven is more offensive than Mafia doesn't make Mafia defensive.


Arguments like these are 90% of the reason I left these forums.

In the context of the game, subjectivity is absolutely an indicator of balance. Factions are balanced or unbalanced compared to others - it's the only way you can ever say the game is balanced.


Also, saying mafia can't have a role which has, among other versatile uses, a defensive role because they're an aggressive faction is ridiculous.
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