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Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:14 pm
by Parallax7
Spoiler: Image




TL;DR: Jester swings the alignment and does not, and will never support evildoers on the scale Witch does.

K, that's out the way~good. Let's get right into it.

Role Name
Your role is Jester

Role Alignment
Your alignment is Neutral Benign

Summary
You love pranks! When the madness that is the Mafia arrived, you plotted the ultimate prank.

Abilities
-During the night, choose whether you will pull a prank that night, or the coming day.

Attributes
-You have three pranks to last you through the game.
-Your prank will be played on the party responsible for your demise.
-You cannot be role blocked or controlled, and jailing doesn't stop your from pulling a prank.

Stats
Attack: None | Defense: None

Goal
Successfully pull a prank.

How it works

Mafia
The night following the Jester being killed, the entire Mafia faction will be incapable of preforming the factional kill. So Mafia cannot kill anybody.

Town
  • If the Jester is lynched; nobody will be capable of voting the next day.
  • If the Jester is killed at night, all kill capable town, will be incapable of killing players. Bodyguard may still act as shield, however. Vigilante, and Veteran will not be able to shoot/alert, Jailor will not be able to execute.

Neutrals
  • Serial Killer Cannot kill following night.
  • Arsonist Will instant ignite upon dousing the Jester, and be unable to douse or ignite the following night.
  • Werewolf Attack will be reduced to basic, and will not act as a rampage, but a normal kill.

Coven Expansion/ Testing Grounds Spoiler: Coven
Whoever has the necronomicon will be unable to preform their night action.
Potion Master will be unable to kill anybody.
Hex Master's global kill will be delayed by one night.
Medusa will be unable to stone gaze.
Poisoner's most recent target will be healed; if they're already dead, their next target will be healed.

Mafia
Ambusher Will be unable to stalk anyone.

Town
Crusader will fail to kill any player that visits their target.
Trapper assuming the trap is set off by an attacker the night of the prank's affect, the trap will fail to kill the attacker, and only inform the Trapper the role.

Neutrals
Juggernaut Will have its most recent buff nullified.
Pestilence Cannot kill following night.

Town (TG)
Firebrand - Will be unable to douse anyone the following night; if it douses the Jester, it will instant ignite, and cannot preform a douse or ignition the next night. No this doesn't ignition doesn't count as the Firebrand's killing ignition.

Neutrals(TG)
Butcher Inability to kill the night following Jester's demise (assuming they multi-killed), in addition to one of their charges being taken away. Assuming Butcher has none left to be taken away, it will instead only get 1 charge upon its recharge.
Shadowalker Cannot kill following night.
Slaughterer Cannot kill following night.
Electrician Will double charge the Jester (killing it), and be unable to charge anyone the next night.


Investigator:
Your target could be a Framer, Jester or Vampire.
Your target is a Jester.

Role Name
Your role is Executioner

Role Alignment
Your alignment is Neutral Benign

Summary
You are a retired judge and a fanatic for public execution.

Abilities
-Rule on a target at night.

Attributes
-You will win the game if you target you ruled on is lynched the coming day.
-You will lose your defense for the night, and the following night, if your target was killed the night you ruled on them.
-You cannot pick the same target more than once.
-You will commit suicide if all targets have been picked.

Stats
Attack: None | Defense: Basic

Goal
Successfully rule on someone.

Investigator Results
Your target is a Godfather, Sheriff, or Executioner.

For more information on the above, visit the creator's thread: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=33368%27 (Kirize12)

If you want to show this support, put it in your signature!
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[url=http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=72574][img]http://i.imgur.com/v4U8bw9.jpg[/img][/url]

Looks like this:
Image

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:31 pm
by ImpetuousRuffian
What are the pranks?

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:35 pm
by Parallax7
ImpetuousRuffian wrote:What are the pranks?


Did you even read the post...?

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:39 pm
by DeadLittleLamb
I like it a lot, it's definitely a better and healthier role for the game now. Would Executioner still get promoted to this new Jester if their target dies?

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:44 pm
by Parallax7
DeadLittleLamb wrote:I like it a lot, it's definitely a better and healthier role for the game now. Would Executioner still get promoted to this new Jester if their target dies?


That's a difficult question, and to be honest, I'm uncertain. If you have any ideas as to what happens for Executioner, let me know!

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:48 pm
by DumbStorm
This actually sounds really good. Eliminates the swing quite well. However, I think having it able to win in the reverse jester style seems a bit overpowered. Maybe somehow limit that? Otherwise it's too easy to win

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:51 pm
by DeadLittleLamb
Parallax7 wrote:
DeadLittleLamb wrote:I like it a lot, it's definitely a better and healthier role for the game now. Would Executioner still get promoted to this new Jester if their target dies?


That's a difficult question, and to be honest, I'm uncertain. If you have any ideas as to what happens for Executioner, let me know!


In my opinion Executioner's goal should be changed to "Live to see the Town lose the game" if their target is killed at night, but they lose their immunity (maybe?).

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:53 pm
by marlony1
They can change Jester (from Neutral Evil) to be an NC and rename it "Suicidal" or something.

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:53 pm
by Parallax7
DumbStorm wrote:This actually sounds really good. Eliminates the swing quite well. However, I think having it able to win in the reverse jester style seems a bit overpowered. Maybe somehow limit that? Otherwise it's too easy to win


I think the reverse Jester part is alright, and I'll explain why.

Since you will hurt the party responsible for your death, they will avoid killing you. Sort of like how currently Town will avoid lynching you.

Additionally, since you only have four pranks to have during the day & night, it promoted being conservative and healthy play style, as well as acting as a good fakeclaim.

All in all, I like the dynamic the reverse Jester brings a far as game play goes. Players could use it to their advantage, by promoting an attack, or a lynch; depends on how the Jester plays. It can result in lucky wins, but so can any role with an independent win condition. Need I remind you: Neutral Benign is no longer in ranked, so I hardly see that being an issue haha! :lol:

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:54 pm
by Parallax7
DeadLittleLamb wrote:
Parallax7 wrote:
DeadLittleLamb wrote:I like it a lot, it's definitely a better and healthier role for the game now. Would Executioner still get promoted to this new Jester if their target dies?


That's a difficult question, and to be honest, I'm uncertain. If you have any ideas as to what happens for Executioner, let me know!


In my opinion Executioner's goal should be changed to "Live to see the Town lose the game" if their target is killed at night, but they lose their immunity (maybe?).



That has potential!
Perhaps it's randomly assigned another target?

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:55 pm
by marlony1
DeadLittleLamb wrote:
Parallax7 wrote:
DeadLittleLamb wrote:I like it a lot, it's definitely a better and healthier role for the game now. Would Executioner still get promoted to this new Jester if their target dies?


That's a difficult question, and to be honest, I'm uncertain. If you have any ideas as to what happens for Executioner, let me know!


In my opinion Executioner's goal should be changed to "Live to see the Town lose the game" if their target is killed at night, but they lose their immunity (maybe?).


That wouldn't work as Executioner's would be screwed as soon as their target dies.

"Im sheriff and ___ is Suspicious"
"___ is Medium!"
"vig shoot Executioner"
^ every executioner loss ever made.

Honestly you should just die/"leave the town" once you lynch your target.

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:57 pm
by Parallax7
marlony1 wrote:They can change Jester (from Neutral Evil) to be an NC and rename it "Suicidal" or something.


Neutral Chaos is a walking, talking, balance disrupter. Current Jester, and my overhaul, hardly do that. So I can't see a NC movement being warranted. Besides, it's scum sided. (So is Pirate >_<)

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:57 pm
by ImpetuousRuffian
Parallax7 wrote:
ImpetuousRuffian wrote:What are the pranks?


Did you even read the post...?

Yes, I did read it. Oh, I thought that there were distinct pranks. Like potion master. So a prank that hinders a faction is considered a successful prank?

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:59 pm
by Parallax7
ImpetuousRuffian wrote:
Parallax7 wrote:
ImpetuousRuffian wrote:What are the pranks?


Did you even read the post...?

Yes, I did read it. Oh, I thought that there were distinct pranks. Like potion master. So a prank that hinders a faction is considered a successful prank?


Yes! Essentially when a party attacks/lynches the Jester, the party responsible suffers, but only when you're pulling a prank. You win in addition. It's a pretty balanced set-up, since whoever plays better is rewarded with the NB's siding/advantage. Eliminates kingmaking. This is a true Neutral Benign!

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:40 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
This would also prevent people from being afraid of lynching, which is a gripe I have with Jester. I don't see any problems with it, but I'll go over it again later to see if I can spot anything that needs work.

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:43 pm
by Parallax7
HereThereEverywhere wrote:This would also prevent people from being afraid of lynching, which is a gripe I have with Jester. I don't see any problems with it, but I'll go over it again later to see if I can spot anything that needs work.


Yes, but that doesn't necessarily equate to bad:

Mafia as a genre is built on the foundations of risk reward, eliminating that is a bad idea. It's a balancing tool, and makes the game fun. The good thing about this is, it hurts both sides equally, and has a wide range of impact and utility. I'd love to this Jester added, it's an actual Neutral Benign, that rewards good play, and pushes the game into the favor of the side playing better.

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:05 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
The problem is that scum can act scummy and get off the hook because they could be a Jester. It also punishes Town for lynching scum. It doesn't benefit evils enough, but it also has that problem as well.

Re: Jester Overhaul #NeutralBeNOTEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:05 pm
by NopeTooFast
my only gripe with this is the sort of double-edged sword that it has where

currently, lynch it, always wins, always kills.

this, lynch it, can only win if prank, double lynch waste, kill it at night, can only win if prank, debilitates killing party.

you've basically sort of given the effect on the meta a sidegrade where you're sort of increasing and decreasing the risk of lynching at the same time, while altering how the role interacts overall.

on top of that, you've pretty much applied the practically taboo mechanic of lynch immunity, successfully, in a way that provides a similar risk to the current jester's mechanic.

what you've done is attached a hydrogen molecule.

good.

/support

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:00 pm
by Jackparrot
The current jester is fun and balenced, while this is odd and could be a different role, i would not like to see jester changed.

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:31 pm
by DeadLittleLamb
Jackparrot wrote:The current jester is fun and balenced, while this is odd and could be a different role, i would not like to see jester changed.


Current Jester is swingy and does not fit the Neutral Evil alignment, it also encourages being scummy which is bad.

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:40 pm
by Parallax7
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say acting scummy is bad so to speak. I mean, the end doesn't justify the mean consistently with Jester, but the acting scummy alone is risk-reward in and of itself.

You might as well argue that we should allow Vigilante to shoot without penalty.

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:53 pm
by Scelsi
The current Jester is one of my favorite roles to play. Definitely swingy, but so much fun!

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:28 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
Vigilante is one person making the decision for themselves, that means there should be a much bigger risk than the majority coming together and voting. It prevents Vigi from shooting without putting a lot of thought into it(except when it doesn't)There's already the chance that the 'scum' Town is lynching is a Townie. Vigilante has to be even more careful of that risk.

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:27 pm
by Parallax7
HereThereEverywhere wrote:Vigilante is one person making the decision for themselves, that means there should be a much bigger risk than the majority coming together and voting. It prevents Vigi from shooting without putting a lot of thought into it(except when it doesn't)There's already the chance that the 'scum' Town is lynching is a Townie. Vigilante has to be even more careful of that risk.


Well, with this change, Jester can act pro-town, and the penalty is felt universally for kill capable Town, so it equates.

Re: Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:45 pm
by JGaming08
Three things.

Parallax7 wrote:Arsonist:
When dousing the Jester, they will instant ignite, only killing the Jester, and cannot ignite/douse the following night.

Are all of the doused targets still doused? If not they should be, it'd provide a weak role more power.

Parallax7 wrote:Role Alignment
Your alignment is Neutral Benign

Seems more like a scummy role to be NB, because NBs are all roles-sided and this is no role sided. However I don't know what you could change it to.

Parallax7 wrote:-You own four pranks to last you through the game.

Seems like too many, guarantee's the Jester a win. I'd say you nerf it to three.

Apart from that, tis' a decent role.