Town of Salem Game Forums

Parallax7 wrote:@Shilster

So if we apply your logic to this game, Jester shouldn't be changed, because it has a 70% chance to haunt town, and we should ignore the other 30%?

How do odds balance a role? They swing the role, if anything, and aren't reliable. Let's apply your argument to Vigilante, where its bullet would kill 70% of the time, and the other 30% of the time, it'd fail entirely.

See?

Shilster wrote:

Parallax7 wrote:@Shilster

So if we apply your logic to this game, Jester shouldn't be changed, because it has a 70% chance to haunt town, and we should ignore the other 30%?

How do odds balance a role? They swing the role, if anything, and aren't reliable. Let's apply your argument to Vigilante, where its bullet would kill 70% of the time, and the other 30% of the time, it'd fail entirely.

See?

Jssters can go completely random when Vigs can only target some roles. It's actually quite different.

Parallax7 wrote:@Village

Simple disruption happens. It's a double edged sword, and this mechanic with Witch is more or less skilled based. If you added Tactical Kills, it'd be minimized. Assuming you follow my YouTube, I'm sure you could see my video on the aforementioned.

Regardless, Jester's interaction with scum, creates a dilemma. What happens is you have a fundamentally broken mechanic, opposed to Witch's being poor play by the Witch, and you could argue gamethrowing if it's blatant. Jester can pursue a scum haunt blatantly. You don't understand how necessary a "Live to see the Town lose the game." win condition Is. Because they will always support scum much more, as they're more reliable, consistent, and balanced. The broken mechanic previously mentioned would be scum pursuing the Jester lynch to get a Town haunted, and it backfiring, by the way. It's also when Jester is lynched, and scum voted guilty wanting to improve its Town appeal, and it is haunted.

Independent winning is reserved for NB/NC. Jester wins independently. My Jester is Neutral Benign. Put two and two together.

Villagerlover wrote: I still believe that the value of the original Jester's intentions are greater than this new attempt at making a "more balanced" game.
In my opinion, I don't think Townies should always be lynch-happy. The very idea of a Jester is still a very commonly used excuse to deter lynches, stall the time for evils, and overall, ignore certain players that are really trying hard to prove they are worth being heard. The idea of a role that can win by getting itself lynched anytime, and killing a guilty voter is pretty good for anti-town purposes in my opinion.



- I don't think this role should be the new Jester. I think it should just be an entirely new role on it's own.

Parallax7 wrote:Except it's original influence is preserved and amplified. Let me know when it dawns upon you.

Villagerlover wrote:

Parallax7 wrote:

Spectre0 wrote:I don't really see why Jester needs to be changed.

"Swings the alignment"? What?

Jester absolutely supports evils.

Jester supports evildoers ~ in retrospect, it does not.

Scum doesn't deserve to be panalzied for poor play when something that exists to support them is what punishes them. Not to mention, this very paradox's severity is amplified by the fact, two scum for the price of one for Town is absolutely absurd.

Yeah, nothing says evil doer support like that.

The witch could do the exact same thing.
Punish the Mafia (even if they did play pretty well) by unintentionally controlling them to target others and ruin plans, waste abilities, or even worse. Make the Mafia kill each other.

And the Mafia don't even have to do anything wrong. It's just a thing that can happen.

Any "evil doer support" has its drawbacks. The ones the witch could cause are a lot worse than that of which a jester could do

Soulshade55r wrote:Suggestions:
Jester could just become a Neutral benign (Yea it can kill being a NB but Amne can already remember a killing role) and it's only one kill role so could exe (remove that it has to lynch town.)

or Jester when lynch'd could force town not to vote the next day. (A bad thing happens from lynching the jester but not effecting the evils)

I don't think jester needs a massive "change"

TrueGuardian32 wrote:I don't get why we don't make it where Jester is mafia already. It would scare the town a TON.

Joacgroso wrote:

TrueGuardian32 wrote:I don't get why we don't make it where Jester is mafia already. It would scare the town a TON.

Because it would be worse than having a disguiser. A 1x1 trade never favors mafia. That's why they don't want to hit someone protected by a bodyguard.

kookeekwisp wrote:Are they lazy & prefer the Graveyard over Player numbers? Try scimitar on the left.

TrueGuardian32 wrote:

Joacgroso wrote:

TrueGuardian32 wrote:I don't get why we don't make it where Jester is mafia already. It would scare the town a TON.

Because it would be worse than having a disguiser. A 1x1 trade never favors mafia. That's why they don't want to hit someone protected by a bodyguard.

It would also scare the town making them worried about lynching mafia.

Parallax7 wrote:Your point doesn't prove current Jester is good, it proves its intended purposes is, my change preserves said purpose and improves upon.

Villagerlover wrote:

Parallax7 wrote:Your point doesn't prove current Jester is good, it proves its intended purposes is, my change preserves said purpose and improves upon.

Your dynamic for this role change doesn't preserve the jester. It changes it into a entirely different concept. (For the improvement of game balance? Absolutely)
But the original jester still has a personal attack feeling that's a lot less wanted over a team attack.



That's why I think this idea should be a new role of its own instead of just replacing the current jester. I think it would be a lot better to be honest cause not only do you have to fear a personal haunt from a mislynch, but you have to look out for a team attack as well. It's a nice blend of to help further discourage careless lynching.

marlony1 wrote:

Villagerlover wrote:

Parallax7 wrote:Your point doesn't prove current Jester is good, it proves its intended purposes is, my change preserves said purpose and improves upon.

Your dynamic for this role change doesn't preserve the jester. It changes it into a entirely different concept. (For the improvement of game balance? Absolutely)
But the original jester still has a personal attack feeling that's a lot less wanted over a team attack.



That's why I think this idea should be a new role of its own instead of just replacing the current jester. I think it would be a lot better to be honest cause not only do you have to fear a personal haunt from a mislynch, but you have to look out for a team attack as well. It's a nice blend of to help further discourage careless lynching.

Town is already punished for careless lynching, losing a townie.
If town lynched scum, they deserve to live. Scum shouldn't live because "oh he might be a jester", as it promotes bad play and is an undeserved win

Villagerlover wrote:

marlony1 wrote:

Villagerlover wrote:

Parallax7 wrote:Your point doesn't prove current Jester is good, it proves its intended purposes is, my change preserves said purpose and improves upon.

Your dynamic for this role change doesn't preserve the jester. It changes it into a entirely different concept. (For the improvement of game balance? Absolutely)
But the original jester still has a personal attack feeling that's a lot less wanted over a team attack.



That's why I think this idea should be a new role of its own instead of just replacing the current jester. I think it would be a lot better to be honest cause not only do you have to fear a personal haunt from a mislynch, but you have to look out for a team attack as well. It's a nice blend of to help further discourage careless lynching.

Town is already punished for careless lynching, losing a townie.
If town lynched scum, they deserve to live. Scum shouldn't live because "oh he might be a jester", as it promotes bad play and is an undeserved win

Having a jester in-game doesn't "promote bad play". It makes people more careful about who they want to lynch. Regardless of their faction.
Which promotes bad play. It makes people avoid obvious scum... there's a big difference between making people be careful and legit letting someone who claims GF live.
Also, if you're able to trick people into lynching you without being an "obvious jester" than you totally deserve the win.
You deserve to win as a jester, but if you're a scum and trick town into you being an obvious jester, by literally sucking at the game, you don't deserve it.