Jester Overhaul #SeeNoNeutralEvil

[HereThereEverywhere]

That's why I didn't say "too obviously scummy" because we're talking about good Jesters hurting scum, not bad Jesters failing to get lynched.

The problem is that it's too easy to lynch a Jester. Someone acting scummy and it's obvious they're going to be lynched? Evils aren't going to abstain in case they get called evil as well. It's not their fault it just happens to be a Jester.

It's also easy to tell if someone is a jester. If someone is acting like a jester, then you should just wait for someone to kill them instead of lynching them. Or just ignore them

This is assuming all Jesters act like a Jester. Some don't. So you're either saying never lynch ANY scum because Jesters act like scum, or you're saying every last Jester acts like a Jester.

[RHCube]

The problem is that it's too easy to lynch a Jester. Someone acting scummy and it's obvious they're going to be lynched? Evils aren't going to abstain in case they get called evil as well. It's not their fault it just happens to be a Jester.

It's also easy to tell if someone is a jester. If someone is acting like a jester, then you should just wait for the vig/jailor to kill them instead of lynching them.

Not necessarily, I tend to remain quiet as jester so people think I'm evil. It works most of the time.

That's why you should also suspect quiet players of being a jester. it's best to just wait for them to die at night.

That's why I didn't say "too obviously scummy" because we're talking about good Jesters hurting scum, not bad Jesters failing to get lynched.

The problem is that it's too easy to lynch a Jester. Someone acting scummy and it's obvious they're going to be lynched? Evils aren't going to abstain in case they get called evil as well. It's not their fault it just happens to be a Jester.

It's also easy to tell if someone is a jester. If someone is acting like a jester, then you should just wait for someone to kill them instead of lynching them. Or just ignore them

This is assuming all Jesters act like a Jester. Some don't. So you're either saying never lynch ANY scum because Jesters act like scum, or you're saying every last Jester acts like a Jester.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying you should suspect scum of being a jester.

[HereThereEverywhere]

That's another problem, it means Town should be afraid to lynch scum - what else would suspecting all scum of being a potential Jester mean?

[BPsycho2]

if you suspect all scum to be a potential jester, then either the scum is bad at the game, or you are. Not much to do with the rework


Which is fantastic

[Soulshade55r]

The current jester is good.

[BPsycho2]

Why do you think so?

[Parallax7]

The current jester is good.

You do realize the current alignment for Jester is in appropriate given it's impact, correct?

[Parallax7]

-You own four pranks to last you through the game.

Seems like too many, guarantee's the Jester a win. I'd say you nerf it to three.

It is 3.

[Parallax7]

Smash that support vote, and throw this thing into your sig;)

[Random777]

I like the role a lot! I think it has a lot of potential and really makes the role something that can be a nuisance to both the town and evil roles. My only issue is, and I know this is more my own thing, I'm just not a fan of roles really getting revamped, unless I feel they ABSOLUTELY need to be fixed, such as the case with spy at the current moment. In my opinion, I'm really neutral on it, because I would be fine if it stayed the same but I also would be fine if the role got revamped to something like this. Overall, brilliant concept for a role that does not get enough love, but I'm just not sure if I'm ready to say goodbye to the current jester.

[HereThereEverywhere]

On page two I mentioned something about keeping the original Jester as a Chaos role, would that work for people?

[Parallax7]

On page two I mentioned something about keeping the original Jester as a Chaos role, would that work for people?

This could be used in competitive play if they ever decided to bring Neutral Benign to Ranked.

[HereThereEverywhere]

...How does that relate to keeping the original Jester as an NC? I'm not saying your idea doesn't work, I just mean for those people who want to keep the original Jester as well.

[Parallax7]

...How does that relate to keeping the original Jester as an NC? I'm not saying your idea doesn't work, I just mean for those people who want to keep the original Jester as well.

It was sort of a, people like how Jester affects Ranked play; something I thought I'd throw out in the open. No particular goal in mind. Promotes discussion, no?

[HereThereEverywhere]

I'm still confused.

[Parallax7]

I'm still confused.

/Pet

[Jackparrot]

Maybe make jester and execountioner a NB, because it has it's own win conditions?

[RHCube]

That's another problem, it means Town should be afraid to lynch scum - what else would suspecting all scum of being a potential Jester mean?

That's the point of jester.

On page two I mentioned something about keeping the original Jester as a Chaos role, would that work for people?

No, because then jester would rarely appear in ranked. I don't see any issues with the current jester. Roles should only be reworked if their concept is broken(like spy/ret)

Maybe make jester and execountioner a NB, because it has it's own win conditions?

I support that, but exe would only work as a NB if it could have anyone(not just town) as its target.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Yes, the point of Jester is to make Town afraid of lynching. That's a bad point, because lynching is Town's main weapon for killing scum.

[kookeekwisp]

...what the heck is this?

No really, I can't figure out what the hell it does, nor can I tell if it requires skill.

Goal: Successfully pull a prank on someone

Abilities:
-During the day/night choose to pull a prank on the townsfolk.

WHAT???

[Joacgroso]

Yes, the point of Jester is to make Town afraid of lynching. That's a bad point, because lynching is Town's main weapon for killing scum.

Well... veteran's point is making evils afraid of attacking people, while escorts directly prevent them from killing.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Yes, the point of Jester is to make Town afraid of lynching. That's a bad point, because lynching is Town's main weapon for killing scum.

Well... veteran's point is making evils afraid of attacking people, while escorts directly prevent them from killing.

Escort does directly prevent evils from killing. But that's why WW and SK kill roleblockers and Mafia has a GF and a Mafioso, to avoid that. Veteran only alerts three times, so the chance to dying to vet is a lot less than lynching a Jester that will always kill someone - the someone having a chance of being evil and thus making Jester help Town rather than hurt them.

[kookeekwisp]

Yes, the point of Jester is to make Town afraid of lynching. That's a bad point, because lynching is Town's main weapon for killing scum.

Well... veteran's point is making evils afraid of attacking people, while escorts directly prevent them from killing.

Escort does directly prevent evils from killing. But that's why WW and SK kill roleblockers and Mafia has a GF and a Mafioso, to avoid that. Veteran only alerts three times, so the chance to dying to vet is a lot less than lynching a Jester that will always kill someone - the someone having a chance of being evil and thus making Jester help Town rather than hurt them.

Well, a lying Townie would be kindof an easy spot for scum, especially Coven.
No Surv in their right mind would vote guilty on a scummy Town claim.

[Jackparrot]

First of all, why there isn't a "no" option in the poll? You should add it.
Personally, I like jesters as they are now. Also, as the person above said, 4 pranks is too much. It should only have 2 or 3. Also, jesters should lose if they are executed by the jailor. This would make every evil role act like a jester, which is not funny. Town should have at least 1 way of killing him without being punished.
And personally, I think that this could be a new role, but it would be better if jester stayed as they are now.

You do realize, current Jester is a role meant to help scum in theory, as every Neutral Evil role is, but ultimately fails in practice.


In what world is a Jester's haunt remotely close to consistently helpful in regards to supporting scum? It isn't.

I won, and needless to say, Mafia lost, and that can be attributed to me. If you think Jester should remain Neutral Evil, then it's my advice you start a petition for Vampire to be in Ranked.

This is one example, Does this happen all the time? Nope. As I said jest is to make town more reluctant to lynch, therefore serving as a defense mechanic

[Parallax7]

It's defense mechanic backfires because it can kill scum, and because of how the game works, it does more often than not.

I've answered pretty much every dumb question I've been asked. Not going to argue for the sake of arguing any longer. We both have opinions.